Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Pianist Corner Chopin 25:12

OK, so I am hooked on Chopin 25:12. For some reason I enjoy practising it, it is like meditation. Of course the problem is speed. I play most parts reasonably at 60 and feel that is well within reach - you are allowed this great rit at the end of the development, right? The score calls for 80 which seems outright impossible without sacrificing too much.

On one hand I am happy with 60. I play only for my own pleasure and am not going to perform it. So perhaps I should leave it at that. My practice time is quite limited after all, and there are many other things I want to play.

On the other hand I might miss out on an essential experience if I don't try to take it further, what do I know? So I would ask those of you who made it to 80: Was it worth the effort to you? Also practice tips would be appreciated. I am working in half-measure bursts to get the speed up (run up - rest and relax - run down - rest and relax etc), gradually shortening the rests, are there other ways? I mainly work HT since I find HS boring, perhaps I should reconsider that?

I encourage your practice of short "bursts" of speed, but I wouldn't always do them : Up - pause - Down - pause - Up (beats 1, 2, pause, 3, 4, pause; etc. Make sure that you do bursts of speed that encompass beats two and three and beats four and one, as well.

I would also practice in groups (one beat, two beats, three beats) that variably end on the first, the second, the third and the fourth note of each beat. The more you change the "landing spot" of each group, the better your chances are of ending up with a very regular execution, even at points where direction changes or where fingers change on the same notes.

Regards,

What is slowing you down? Do you tense up when you play faster than 60, or do you get tired after a while?

I have studied this etude, and when I practiced it, I could (and did) perform it at full tempo. Some practice tips I have are to practice good-sized sections (for example: the first 14 measures) at a time with a metronome over and over again, starting at 54 BPM, then speeding up to 56, then 58, then 60, etc. And see if you can get faster. For now, maybe aim for something like 72. And of course, after a few repetitions of the section at a time, if you're feeling a bit fatigued, take a small break until you feel fine again before going back to practice. If you're feeling some sort of fatigue or tightness WHILE playing just the first or second repetition, you need to re-examine your technique for this piece, which is something that pretty much cannot be explained to you clearly online.

Slow way down and listen closely to yourself. Normally, I find that if I run into problems at high speed, I am able to pinpoint the cause of it by slowing down. Pay attention to how you are extending your hand, whether your positioning is comfortable, whether the sound is even, and while you're at it, whether there's something you're missing in the score. This was the only way I was able to play Mazeppa more accurately.

How do you guys recommend thinking of the arm movement - as a series of distinct arm positions, or as a single continuous motion, up and down?

I'm not exactly sure how to articulate what I'm asking. When I started working on this piece, I practiced it the way I usually approach fast passagework, which is to break it down into short segments and play with rhythms and accents to make my playing as smooth and accurate as possible - but I was breaking things down into units of 4 (to line up with the beat). My thinking was that I wanted my arm to move smoothly and continuously up and down the arpeggio.

I've since tried breaking things up into groups of 3, 3, 5, 3 and 3, e.g.:

Eb-G-C
Eb-G-C
Eb-G-C-G-Eb
C-G-Eb
C-G-D

... and I've found that this helps with my accuracy, but makes things more uneven when I try it at tempo. It requires that I move my arm from one position to the next in segments, and those distinct movements can throw off the rhythm.

Any suggestions? I intend to talk to my teacher about this, but the semester doesn't resume until next month, and I'm trying to get as much done as I can over the break.

I think, without being able to watch what you have expressed, that we are dealing with different arm motions for two distinct "renditions." When you are practicing in short segments, it might indeed make sense to have the arm in position over the particular notes to be played in that segment; then move to the next segment accordingly. However, when relative time values are observed (without breaks between segments), whether brought up to speed or played slowly, it is my opinion that the arm movement should be a continuous smooth motion so that your hands are always over the keys to be played before you play them.

Said another way: I don't think you will get an even flow of execution if your arm is moving from individual position to individual position as opposed to moving in a gentle sweep at a constant speed from low position to high and back again.

I think that this means, at some point, when accuracy has been established, that you have to practice as slowly as you need to while maintaining a consistently even arm movement to get an even flow of notes.

In a sense, you are separately practicing two (almost) opposing techniques to arrive at a finished performance. I wonder if this makes sense from a pedagogical point of view.

Regards,

Thanks all for good advice! I'm currently down with a bad flu but will try the suggestions soon.