Perfect? No.. never will be, not with my practice schedule. But much improved I think

A few overall reactions, after listening a couple of times:

1 I hear quite a number of shifts in emotional tone as the piece progresses, and I don't think you're quite taking the time to underline these; to "enjoy" them, so to speak. Having said this, the lyrical sections were for me the mosr successful; it was nice, believable contrast to the "sturm und drang" sections that dominate the piece.

2 For Liszt, my personal favorite tends to be Arrau, because he provides a certain nobility of expression over and above all the considerable technical demands. As you say, you've gotten to the point of achieving considerable clarity throughout, but I do think it needs an additional level of control, of getting over the top and seeing from above, so to speak.

3 But, hey, this is a lot better than anything I could bring to the party -- thanks for sharing this!

Congratulations !
Very good effort to pull off such a demanding piece.

I am not sure if the quality of the recording is doing justice to your playing.

How was this recorded ?

regards,

Zoom Q3 on high gain, best quality PCM sound it would take. Using a higher bit-rate actually improved the sound quite a bit, I don't think it has ever taken a better recording.

I think the high gain (high sensitivity) setting is causing some clipping.
Did you try the low gain?
And I hope you didn't do any normalization or compression on the sound. In classical music it really takes away the nuances.

Please allow me to make a few tiny suggestions:
Would you consider a somewhat less pedaling at the first time the main theme appears? Also trying to make those 32 notes at the end of each bar more precise. I mean at some instances they might sound close to a 16th note value. And perhaps a gradual start to the scales at the beginning.

In 6 months of work you have brought this piece to a high level and I think a better tuned piano, and a good recording setup will also contribute a lot.

Thanks for sharing.

regards,

Hi Jeffrey,

I didn't notice that you had posted this recording here! Since we're both working on this piece, I thought I would make some comments and ask you a couple questions too. I’m going in to some detail here in part because I want to think more about what I’m doing in the piece. I hope it doesn’t come across as being too critical, because overall your playing quite good – much better than what I reached after studying the piece for 6 months, and probably better than the version that I submitted for the Liszt e-cital too! But if you’re interested in discussing interpretation of this piece, I’ll mention some of the minor details we do differently:

On the introductory chords, my taste is for slightly more dramatic accelerando leading into the last three chords.

The marking before the following scale in octaves is cadenza ad libitum. Have you ever played around with adding more of something to the cadenza, or heard someone do that? I haven’t, but I like the idea of trying something out.

The introductory scale is very nice. I wish I could play scales as quickly and smoothly as you do. Question: in the left hand of that scale, when you come down from B-flat each time, are you playing 1-2-3-4-5 from A down to D, then crossing 4 over to the C# and then playing 5-4-3-2-1 back up from D to A? I THINK that’s what it looks like you’re doing, but I can’t be sure. I’ve played around with a lot of fingering possibilities for the LH there, and I just recently decided that what I described is the best solution for me. Everything I’ve come up with is awkward in one way or another…

When you get to the bottom of the octave scale and slow down for the final left hand notes before the first iteration of the main theme, I think that’s totally appropriate, but the little pause where you shift your body and lift the pedal I don’t think is a good musical decision.

In this first iteration of the main theme, I personally try to play the thirds as quietly as possible. Hakki made a point about pedaling less in this section, but I don’t really think that’s an option (in part because the score tells you to hold the pedal and in part because then you lose the sustained melody notes). However, if you lower the background noise caused by the thirds, I think that accomplishes the same goal.

You have very nice interlocking octaves right before the third iteration of the melody (the dreamy section). I was going to suggest that you slow down a fair amount for this section, because this is how I feel it, and how my favorite recorded version of the piece go, but I noticed that there is a “(lo stesso tempo)” written at the beginning of the section. Maybe you’re right to play it at the same tempo then! I honestly haven’t noticed that marking in a long time. I wonder what the history of that marking is though, given that it’s in parentheses. Your voicing of the melody in this section is quite nice. Mine sometimes drowns in the low and high arpeggios.

In the next section (il canto espressivo), you’re making a small rhythmic error that I only just noticed in myself as well. When the right hand is playing the chromatic rising line with repeated B natural (p. 19 of the Busoni edition), your rhythm in the left hand is a tiny bit off. The left hand melody is written as a half note, dotted quarter, then eighth (beginning at the 5th measure). But I’m pretty sure you’re playing that last eighth as a triplet eighth to line up perfectly with the right hand triplets. And I’m sure you’re playing the following 16th-8th fifth in the lower register to match up perfectly with the right hand triplets, which it shouldn’t do. Those shorter left hand notes should be between the triplet eighths in the right hand.

Your mp “animato” section is quite nice and playful, although sometimes a little bit out of control.

When you come to the allegro deciso section, there’s something that sounds a little funky to my ear in the 8th and 10th measures in the left hand. It sounds like you’re playing a major 7th rather than an octave maybe? Or maybe you’re just bringing out the tritone much louder than I do? I’m not sure what it is, but either one of us has a reading error, or our voicing is very different on the chords in those measures.

The upwards and downward arpeggios on the next page are very impressive. This is the hardest part of the piece for me, and I always have to slow down to play them cleanly. Nicely done!

When you come to the fermata where Mazeppa and his horse have fallen, at that bottom of that page, I think the effect is more dramatic to hold the F through the fermata into what follows. Maybe you do, and the combination of recording setup and piano just doesn’t allow that sustained note to come through…

And finally, IMO, the chord inversions at the end should have more excitement and accelerando to them.


Again, great performance! Please don’t take any of this the wrong way – I’m just excited to talk a little nitty-gritty with someone else who’s playing the same piece

Thanks for all the feedback, I'll try to respond the best I can after a performance and before I get to bed..



Fair. I have difficulty just playing it in time, though. The opening is for some reason proving hard for me to internalize..



I don't, but I do try to accentuate the crescendos that are written in. I see them as surges.



I use the standard fingering for scales in this passage. Anything else would trip me up.



How else can I get ready for what's about to come??



Yes, Liszt indicates pedaling through the bar, and the thirds have a crescendo, which I think kind of precludes playing them quietly. I don't think it's supposed to sound too straight or nice. The edginess is very likely intended.



I found that I have to give the left hand every ounce of strength I have in every note for it to come out. Otherwise it gets lost. And yes, I play it strictly in tempo.



I might be possibly be double-dotting the left hand to a sixteenth. Either way I'll look at this again.



Yes, because I'm never 100% sure of the notes.. so hard to remember!!



Very likely I'm playing it wrong.



Yes, I do.



Excitement yes, accelerando, I'll disagree there. He's rising up as king, not as a sprinter!



Thanks - even where I don't agree, I value your opinion and will experiment to see if I will eat my words.

I did another take on low gain (which should eliminate the distortion, though it will also be at a low level, so break out your headphones) and a teeny bit slower so that I could stay more in control. I also took the pedal off for parts of the second iteration of the theme (since it's not indicated there).

Fantastic job on getting Mazeppa as far as you have. Your octaves are to be envied.

I think you're right that the first section needs to be more musical. It could be the technical demands that are holding you back - in other words, more work needed. Interestingly, there aren't too many concert pianists willing to tackle this etude publicly. Berezovsky does a very good job. Cziffra was even more impressive, though his recording is miked in such a way as to sound a bit flat.

If you want a transcendental performance, there is only one person I have found who has the volcanic temperament, the complete abandon, the disregard for technical difficulties (because they weren't difficulties for him), and the ability to make this thoroughly musical so that you forget how impossible it is to play.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HfkvDR87dZQ

It would be interesting to hear you play on a first rate grand piano with an excellent action. I suspect your upright, as good as it is, may be disallowing your complete talents to come through.

While I like Erwin's piano roll, it is a piano roll and can hardly be used as fair comparison. These can be edited the same as a midi file and can be played back at any speed. I have my doubts that Nyiregyhazi played it that fast. Orangesodaking found a youtube of someone 'owning' that first theme. I forgot who it was.

I think Jeffrey is making great progress on an incredibly difficult etude.

I agree about Jeffrey's performance. I think it is incredible what he can accomplish. I noticed in the comments on the Nyierghazi roll that someone mentioned it was one of those that was accurately timed. His recordings in the 70s indicate he had an amazing technique. In any event, I think he captures the spirit of this piece. In fact, I think he is the best Liszt pianist of the 20th century.

I love Ervin's piano roll, and it's one of my favorites as well, but I didn't borrow anything from it. I don't see how anyone could, unless they had an equally monstrous technique (which I don't) and the kind of clairvoyance (or imagination) to hear what the piano roll reproduction misses.

The only way I can approach a piece like this is to take it apart, expose and understand the basic structure, then find the best way to play it so that the structure doesn't get swallowed or obscured by the difficulty of what I'm attempting to do. I don't think I'm quite there yet. It still sounds really, really hard.

Damon: