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#1822940 - 01/11/12 06:46 PM Kawai KL 502, can't seem to find much info.
mcours2006 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/07/12
Posts: 32
There doesn't seem to be much information on this piano. I am eyeing one from approx 1982. All I know is that it's 52". Anyone with some knowledge to share, I would greatly appreciate it.

Thanks.

BTW, asking price is $3000. Private sale. I don't know the condition, but wonder if it's worth checking out based on the model alone.

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#1823035 - 01/11/12 10:35 PM Re: Kawai KL 502, can't seem to find much info. [Re: mcours2006]
masaki Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/16/02
Posts: 374
Loc: Tokyo, Japan
Originally Posted By: mcours2006
... All I know is that it's 52". ... asking price is $3000. Private sale. ...


I have one. No, it's not 52". It is 49" including the caster.
KL-502 is a smallest and cheapest model in the KL-series Kawai upright woodgrain surface finish pianos. Mine was produced in 1980, has polished burgundy-stained birch surface, speaks mellow and quiet, some action parts are made of plastic, has four back posts.
$3000 seemingly is a reasonable price if it is sold by some reputable shops after some maintenance jobs and with one or five-year warranty. However, it is sold privately "as is" without any warranty, I would try negotiating to make it much lower than $3000(e.g., $1750-$2000 depending on the wears in the components). FYI: The original price of the KL-502 in Japan was JPY460,000 in 1980.

If you have any other questions on my KL-502, ask me without hesitations. I would be pleased to answer.

--
an amateur

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#1823046 - 01/11/12 10:48 PM Re: Kawai KL 502, can't seem to find much info. [Re: mcours2006]
asd123321 Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/26/05
Posts: 688
Way high for a 30 Year old

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#1823114 - 01/12/12 02:15 AM Re: Kawai KL 502, can't seem to find much info. [Re: asd123321]
Rotom Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/24/10
Posts: 1670
Originally Posted By: masaki
Originally Posted By: mcours2006
... All I know is that it's 52". ... asking price is $3000. Private sale. ...


I have one. No, it's not 52". It is 49" including the caster.
KL-502 is a smallest and cheapest model in the KL-series Kawai upright woodgrain surface finish pianos. Mine was produced in 1980, has polished burgundy-stained birch surface, speaks mellow and quiet, some action parts are made of plastic, has four back posts.
$3000 seemingly is a reasonable price if it is sold by some reputable shops after some maintenance jobs and with one or five-year warranty. However, it is sold privately "as is" without any warranty, I would try negotiating to make it much lower than $3000(e.g., $1750-$2000 depending on the wears in the components). FYI: The original price of the KL-502 in Japan was JPY460,000 in 1980.

If you have any other questions on my KL-502, ask me without hesitations. I would be pleased to answer.

--
an amateur


Originally Posted By: asd123321
Way high for a 30 Year old


Good posts guys. The plastic action would be the old ABS action, i think. Not bad, but MIII is better. Masaki's prices seem better and more accurate. 3k sounds high. Good luck

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#1823195 - 01/12/12 08:13 AM Re: Kawai KL 502, can't seem to find much info. [Re: mcours2006]
mcours2006 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/07/12
Posts: 32
Thanks guys.

Masaki, I assume this was a made in Japan for the Japanese market at the time, and no longer in production by the sound of it. The price of 460k yen translates to about $6000CAD new, but obviously 30 years ago, and obviously it not being sold in Canada we don't know what MSRP would have been, but I supposed we could guess it to say, $8000?

But that's somewhat irrelevant to the current situation. I was able to find some of your old posts regarding the KL502, and you like this piano. I'm buying it for my nine and seven year old sons who'd been taking lessons for four and two years, respectively. They are currently using a keyboard with weighted keys, and are long due for a real one. Is the touch on this piano appropriate for their needs, say for the next 5-10 years?

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#1823205 - 01/12/12 08:34 AM Re: Kawai KL 502, can't seem to find much info. [Re: mcours2006]
Rotom Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/24/10
Posts: 1670
If your sons progress well, you may just find you will need a grand in maybe around five years, maybe more, for reasons of better control of the sound. But the KL502 you're looking at would be just fine as a practice instrument for quite a while, actually

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#1823223 - 01/12/12 09:10 AM Re: Kawai KL 502, can't seem to find much info. [Re: Rotom]
mcours2006 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/07/12
Posts: 32
Rotom, I would love to get a grand now, but we just don't have the space for it. We have to upgrade the size of our house first, and that makes little sense to us right now. We will have to make do with an upright for the foreseeable future, the same way we made do with a keyboard the past four years.

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#1823349 - 01/12/12 12:39 PM Re: Kawai KL 502, can't seem to find much info. [Re: mcours2006]
mcours2006 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/07/12
Posts: 32
BTW, I forgot to mention that Rick Jones has (had) a KL 502 for sale for $4800. Here's the Youtube video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bzgdv-Jo8DM&feature=related

$3000, all of a sudden seems like a bargain, doesn't it?

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#1823510 - 01/12/12 04:42 PM Re: Kawai KL 502, can't seem to find much info. [Re: mcours2006]
Rotom Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/24/10
Posts: 1670
Originally Posted By: mcours2006
Rotom, I would love to get a grand now, but we just don't have the space for it. We have to upgrade the size of our house first, and that makes little sense to us right now. We will have to make do with an upright for the foreseeable future, the same way we made do with a keyboard the past four years.


I wasn't saying that you would need a grand now. But at some stage, when the level of your sons' playing gets more advanced, it will be beneficial for them to be able to practise on a grand piano. For the forseeable future, this piano would serve you well.

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#1823711 - 01/12/12 10:49 PM Re: Kawai KL 502, can't seem to find much info. [Re: mcours2006]
masaki Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/16/02
Posts: 374
Loc: Tokyo, Japan
Originally Posted By: mcours2006
BTW, I forgot to mention that Rick Jones has (had) a KL 502 for sale for $4800. Here's the Youtube video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bzgdv-Jo8DM&feature=related

$3000, all of a sudden seems like a bargain, doesn't it?


I saw the video, but could not see or hear it is $4800. Instead, I heard 10-year warranty and lifetime tradeups.
I am wondering if Rich was assuming that customers would make wrong decision about the value of the piano by it's beautiful looking and put the $4600 tag. But, under the food is nothing more(or little more) than Kawai 49" standard piano or Yamaha U1.

JPY-to-USD exchange rate in early 1980s was about JPY220 to the USD. So, the value of new KL-502s in early 1980s in the US calculated to be $2000, but this calculation is ridiculous.
Rich says, in other video, that if a new KL-502 exists now, it would cost $9000(equivalent to JPY700,000 at today's rate). I agree with him on the imaginary new KL-502 price. Still, I think the 30-year old KL-502 in good condition should be price-tagged $3000 with a bench, two free tunings and 5-year warranty. However, some customers who are very conscious about the color and finishing of the piano might pay $4500(by the Rich's theory?).

I do not think the KL-502, even if it is new, can deserve as a main instrument for your sons for more than a few years unless they play only pieces by Bach and not play pieces by later composers such as Beethoven, Debussy, etc. But, If they can use grand pianos in the schools or piano teacher's studio from time to time, I think it is OK that the piano they use in their home is the KL-502. I guess 30-year old KL-502 possibly can live for another ten years.

--
an amateur

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#1823892 - 01/13/12 08:11 AM Re: Kawai KL 502, can't seem to find much info. [Re: mcours2006]
mcours2006 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/07/12
Posts: 32
Thanks again, Masaki, for your input.

I may have tagged the wrong video. There were several on the KL502. On one of them, at least, he does mention the price. I had to go back to listen to it twice, but he did mention the price as being $48xx.

The seller informed me via email that the piano hasn't been used in ages, and is currently in storage, which I assume means a storage warehouse, but she says she can show me pictures of it.

At any rate, I told her for that model and year I would not be able to offer her more than $2000.

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#1824371 - 01/13/12 07:52 PM Re: Kawai KL 502, can't seem to find much info. [Re: mcours2006]
Rotom Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/24/10
Posts: 1670
You have to see it, and play it, especially if it's in a warehouse in storage right now.

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#1824396 - 01/13/12 08:46 PM Re: Kawai KL 502, can't seem to find much info. [Re: Rotom]
mcours2006 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/07/12
Posts: 32
Originally Posted By: Rotom
You have to see it, and play it, especially if it's in a warehouse in storage right now.


Agreed. Though I get the impression that she expects to be able to sell it without having to actually show it.

Something unrelated to this thread that I've noticed about private party sales, and that is private sellers overestimate the value of their pianos. Perhaps they look at what dealers are selling comparable pianos for and they figure they could sell it at the same price, neglecting the fact that most sellers include the delivery, a tuning or two, as well as some kind of warranty. Plus buying a piano off a showroom floor means that the piano has likely been properly tuned and regulated already. Now, one could question the value of the warranty, but the delivery and after-sale service will cost an extra $300-$500, perhaps more.

I am beginning to think that looking at private sales is going to be a fruitless endeavour. But then today I see an ad for a mid-90's Petrof, what looks like a P118 in mahogany or cherry, listed for $2800,...sigh.

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