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Hi guys,

Am a non-musician and my 8 year old daughter has been taking piano lessons for the last 18 months and she's really into it, we don't even ask her to practice. She's been playing on a hand-me-down 25 year old (or so) Technics electronic piano and we feel it is time to upgrade.

After consulting with family, friends & a dealer, we're looking at the Yamaha CP50 as the primary choice, and the Roland FP-7f-BLK as the secondary. Both are in the budget range.

We're looking for a digital piano (don't insist, not the real pianos) with USB for storage and host control, good keys, good sound. She's project-driven so the usb host is key to hook up Garage Band when she's ready to tackle this.

I'm assuming I'm selecting the right tool either way, but thought I'd post this here to gather some thoughts.

Thanks!

Personally, I don't think you can learn properly unless you're sitting in front of a proper piano, which is why if you're going digital (which I am), I'd go for one of the 'cabinet' style DPs. the Yamaha CLP, Roland HP, Kawai CN/CA.

Sure the sounds and the keys and the action might be the same, but its just not the same as sitting in front of a wooden instrument.

We're going digital piano for mobility and we don't want to get the "cabinet" style ones, you get a better bang for the buck if you go with one of digital stage pianos. Same sounds & keys, less money

I'd rather have an adjustable height stand for this too. She's kinda short

Two completely different animals ....
One is a pure stage piano ... one is a home portable console type piano.

The CP50 stage piano competes with the Roland RD300NX and Kawai MP6 stage piano these pianos have no speakers .. the console equivalent (Roland) is in fact the Roland FP-4F (one model down the tree).

The FP-7F is the home version of the high end Roland RD700NX and would compete with the Yamaha CP5

The main difference is the stage pianos do not have built in speakers and you would have to buy these seperately.

The Roland FP-7F (and its stage RD700NX sibling) is consistently rated amongst the best DP's money can buy while the response on the Yamaha CP50 (and its CP5 big brother) is more mixed. Personal I prefer the Yamaha sound but that's possibly because I'm conditioned to it because I play a Yamaha Grand Acoustic piano but technically there is no doubt the Roland is a better piano.

There is no substitute for personal feel and preference .... if your looking for a stage piano also seriously consider the Kawai MP6 as its very highly regarded in this market segment.

I think that is complete utter rubbish, there is no difference between playing a DP in a fake wood cabinet and one out of it except maybe in your mind.
The only DP where it matters is a AG and that's only because of the action.

Then we'll have to agree to disagree.

Depends on where you're having lessons of course. And where you're going to take your exams (assuming that she'll be taking some grades).

I wouldn't like to learn exclusively on a 'slab' and then play my exams on an acoustic or 'cabinet' DP. Your frame of 'mind' makes a HUGE difference in an examination scenario. If you're not comfortable playing the instrument you won't perform.

I think the key action is way more important than the enclosure material when it comes to learning how to play properly. If the action is good in the DP it is very easy to go between APs and DPs. Thus, buy the best action you can fit into your budget.

For learning, I don't think you can go wrong with the FP-7F. The action is top-notch and allows a very wide range of expression (not always the case with DPs). The sound, while not a perfect facsimile of an acoustic, is technically one of the best, if not the best currently available under $5k. The built in speakers, although a compromise, are great for convenience.

The Yamaha CP50 may be a nice mid-range stage piano, but the action is not as advanced (two sensors as opposed to three in the Roland), the sound engine is "watered down" compared to its bigger brothers, the CP5 and CP1, and it requires monitor speakers or headphones.

The Yamaha has a brighter, perhaps clearer, sound. The Roland has a darker, perhaps duller, sound. However, the decay on the Yamaha is fairly static, while it is much more organic on the Roland.

This is crazy talk, and it's wrong.

It's not completely irrational to say that it's better to learn on an acoustic than on a digital (though I think that's wrong too), but you are saying it's better to learn on a cabinet style DP than a stage piano and that is patently false. Stage-style pianos have the same actions and sounds at better prices and often with greater functionality. There's no advantage to having plywood "cabinetry" except aesthetics.

A bit of fake wood here and there is not going to affect how well anyone plays or learns. Would you play a better game of tennis if your raquet was painted brown so that superficially it looked like it was made of wood instead of carbon fiber?

I guess I'll take the opposite side of most people who have commented before.

The FP7F is a highly rated instrument, but if I was going to get one of these I would personally go with the Yamaha. Roland's actions feel very light and, to me, unnatural. Yamaha's are a bit more conventional in my opinion (more similar to the "average" acoustic while Roland is similar to a "light touch" acoustic). It's true that it's a two sensor action instead of three, but that difference is generally not noticeable except in rare cases for advanced players.

At her age she's probably not super advanced, but you might have her play both and see which action she finds more similar to that of her teacher. Action should probably be the deciding factor, as both of those pianos have very good sounds.

Of course I wouldn't. But I would say that you would play a better game of tennis if you played on the same court you learned on rather than playing at a completely different venue.

Flip over to the 'teaching' forum and you'll find many a teacher who will advise against learning on a 'slab'.

Whilst I agree that there is no significant difference between the console type piano and the stage type piano for the (young) learner - MUCH more important is the piano keyboard action - I would add that it is a good idea for all piano pupils to have some experience on an acoustic from time to time, so they know what the authentic feel of a piano is like, and so they are less likely to have a shock when they come to a piano exam.

On the whole, though, I think today's DPs are a better option in the sub 5K market than acoustic pianos (unless you have luck with a 2nd hand bargain). The pianos my contempories and I played on back in the 60's, 70's and 80's were mostly very poor in sound and action and usually in poor or terrible condition. Things are much better today with the best DPs giving the player a very reasonable imitation of a good standard of grand piano.

And I think JPH42's daughter would do really well with an FP7f - a great option for anyone!

JPH42;

If at all possible, have your daughter play both and then graciously abide by her choice - and you are gracious, if writing the check, for this.

Some here are prone to speak of "The One True Way to Piano," but the matter of greatest import is to support your child's endeavor.

And, bless you for that. Not all here were so lucky, I'd imagine.

--Pat

As many have pointed out, actions in acoustics vary widely. The Yamaha grand I play very occasionally has a rather heavy action (almost cumbersome), and I think the CP50, CP33, P155 and P140 feel not too dissimilar from this. However, others have likened the Roland action to that of a Steinway (not to mention the sound). I cannot confirm this latter point as it's many years since I played a Steinway, but I really don't think that the Roland PHAIII action is unnatural or overly light. More to the point, though, is the way that it connects to the sound - brilliantly, IMO.

Hi Pat

You're the 2nd person to mention this - thanks for your input.

I'm starting to think that she needs to choose, based on her experience on a real piano at her teacher's.

Either way, I don't think I lose on the Yamaha or Roland

Piano teachers say things they don't know, and that are wrong, all the time. This is particularly true where digitals are concerned. Teachers are typically not experts on digital pianos as most do not use them.

I have a piano teacher friend who has been telling students for years that you can't learn properly on a digital. She completely changed her mind when she played mine because she was previously had not known that there is such a thing as a fully weighted digital action. Good teacher, complete neophyte when it comes to digitals--and her students have been taking that advice for years.

Any teacher who recommends getting console style pianos instead of slabs because they think it will somehow help technique is definitely saying something they do not know. There is no reasonable justification for such an outrageous claim.

Regarding the notion that the look of the piano might affect your comfort with playing, the best thing you could do would be to bring your own bench to lessons, so your butt doesn't get confused by the change of venue. No one does that, though, because it's crazy.

Glenn Gould excepted.

Fear of the new or unexpected IS something that can upset one's psychological balance when playing, and the older I get the worse it becomes: I find that I am much less comfortable gigging with stools/stands that I'm not familiar with (at least for the first few numbers). However, a young person is infinitely more adaptable, and I think it's good to get used to playing different pianos and actions, as long as those instruments and actions do not impede performance or development of technique.

That's a good point. It probably is a good thing to play on a number of different pianos, especially while learning.

However, let's assume we do want to match pianos for some reason. In this case we are comparing two pianos that are functionally identical except that one has cabinetry while the other is slab style. There won't be a difference in action or sound, which is the important thing when going from one piano to another. When going from your digital to your teacher's acoustic there will be a lot of differences that actually do matter (the sound and touch response, for example). The veneer or shape of the stand of on which your piano sits will be the least significant of these--not even worth talking about. That is, a console-style piano is not going to look like your teacher's acoustic anyway or be more similar in other ways.

Regarding the tennis analogy, hanging a cardboard sign with the word "Wimbleton" spray painted on it in my local tennis court will not help me when I go to London to play. The increased similarity between the two venues because of the sign is not where it matters.

Sorry to use such strong language when talking about something that could be considered opinion, but your advice is contrary to the most reasonable and common advice in digital piano purchasing and doesn't seem well justified. Most frequent posters in this forum use slab style pianos and for good reason. They are usually cheaper and very often better than the cabinet style pianos available. Cabinet-style pianos basically take advantage of the fact that most purchasers are not very sophisticated or alternately place high value on a certain aesthetic and are willing to compromise on functionality and/or pay through the nose to get it.

I would lean toward the Roland because I think, all else being equal, it's preferable to have built-in speakers (you can still use better external speakers if and when you prefer, but you at least have the option, and I think the vibrations make it feel more real to play).

Other than that, sound and action are just personal preference. The CP50 action is on the heavy side, the Roland is on the light. If you prefer the Yamaha sound but wish the action were closer to the Roland's, you can look at the CP5, which has one of Yamaha's lighter actions.

The only advantage with a cabinet style DP is that the keyboard is already at the height of a real piano and that the pedals are in the right place (and also stay there). And perhaps that the music rest is already there too. With a stage piano you need to set all these things up correctly yourself. There's a good chance the newbie will end up with a setup that is less than optimal for posture plus would then feel strange when sitting at an acoustic.