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#1823071 - 01/11/12 11:54 PM Re: Public Humiliation for a ringing cell phone owner at N YPhil [Re: Brad Hoehne]
newport Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/27/05
Posts: 492
Originally Posted By: Brad Hoehne
I've long had the impression that a concert is where people in the last stages of tuberculosis go to listen (and contribute) to beautiful music before they pass on.


Only in USA and especially Carnegie Hall.
_________________________
Chopin Op.51
John

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#1823091 - 01/12/12 12:56 AM Re: Public Humiliation for a ringing cell phone owner at N YPhil [Re: Otis S]
nycplayer Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/21/08
Posts: 209
Loc: New York
Originally Posted By: Otis S

If programs contained a paragraph indicating this, that would be a step in the right direction.

I'm sure the programs from Lincoln Center and/or Carnegie Hall include a section on concert etiquette. I know I have read it in the past. And yet, I also know all too well that phones ringing, candies unwrapped and all kinds of other nuisance behavior have occurred in both venues. I wish what you wrote were true, but I must disagree. Sure, maybe a bunch of people have the best of intentions but I also feel that many others are simply too inconsiderate or selfish to care.

In fact, from "The Concert Experience" on Carnegie Hall's website:

"A concert at Carnegie Hall is memorable, and we want everyone to enjoy their time here.

We ask that you please turn off your cell phone and other electronic devices before entering the Hall, and refrain from taking pictures.

There's no dress code, and we have a coat check. We want you to be comfortable.

Just be considerate of others. Be subtle with perfumes and scents, and please turn off your cell phone and other electronic devices before entering the Hall.

Tapping, humming, and singing along can be lots of fun—but not necessarily for the person sitting next to you. We love to see children in the audience; please remind them that being courteous of others is part of the experience.

If you need any help or have any questions, please feel free to talk with one of our helpful, friendly ushers. And please help yourself to the free Ricola cough drops (remember to unwrap them before the music starts)."

http://www.carnegiehall.org/Information/Concert-Experience/

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#1823111 - 01/12/12 02:10 AM Re: Public Humiliation for a ringing cell phone owner at N YPhil [Re: Frito]
Andromaque Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/29/08
Posts: 3886
Loc: New York
Originally Posted By: Frito
Originally Posted By: BDB
I have taken to carrying candies to concerts which I hand out to someone coughing near me.

Fine, as long as they don't have to be unwrapped!


The ones that used to be given away for free at Carnegie Hall are wrapped in "silent" wax paper. They are (used to be) in big jars outside the hall. I have not seen them in a while though.


For what it's worth, Mr. Gilbert has spoken to the NY Times . I excerpt his version below. Apparently it was the annoying Marimba tone that rang relentlessly, and it must have been am alarm and not an actual phone call, thus the length of the disturbance. The thing would have gone on and on had the guy not finally turned it off.

From the NY Times:
Mr. Gilbert, the orchestra’s music director, said he turned to the area of Avery Fisher Hall where the sound was coming from, in one of the front rows, and asked the unknown miscreant to turn off the phone. (It was an individual who apparently failed to heed the recorded announcement from the actor Alec Baldwin to silence cellphones that is played before the Philharmonic’s performances.)

“Nothing happened,” Mr. Gilbert said in a telephone interview on Wednesday. “Nobody was owning up to it. It was surreal.” The phone kept ringing – the iPhone’s marimba ring-tone, according to the music blogger Paul Pelkonen, who wrote about the incident.

Mr. Gilbert said audience members pointed out two people sitting where the sound was coming from. “They were staring at me resolutely,” he said of the couple. Eventually, the man put his hand in his pocket and the ringing stopped. “It was so weird,” Mr. Gilbert said. “Did he think he could just bite his lip and soldier through?”

The conductor said he asked the man if he was sure the device was quieted. “Then he nodded his head,” Mr. Gilbert said. Guilty!

People in the hall had been shouting for the sound to stop. Mr. Pelkonen reported that they yelled: “Thousand-dollar fine!” “Kick him out!” “Get out!” Another blogger, who was present, Max Kinchen, wrote, “They wanted blood!”

Mr. Gilbert, in the interview, said: “It was so shocking what happened. You’re in this very far away spiritual place in the piece. It’s like being rudely awakened. All of us were stunned on the stage.”

The conductor then apologized to the audience for stopping, saying that usually it’s best just to ignore such a disruption, but this case was too much. The audience cheered and applauded. He then started the music again, picking a loud passage leading into the tranquil final minutes to begin.

Ringing cellphones are a common scourge of live performances, and indeed, most musicians soldier on. “Usually it’s not Mahler Nine you’re playing,” Mr. Gilbert said, “and usually it’s not the most emotionally wrought part of Mahler Nine, and usually people deal with it.”

He said he was convinced the sound was an alarm because of its continuous nature.

The policy at Avery Fisher Hall, run by Lincoln Center, where the Philharmonic is a tenant, is for ushers to approach the owners of ringing phones and ask them discreetly to turn off the devices, said Eric Latzky, the orchestra’s spokesman. “In this incident, unfortunately the policy was not followed,” he said.

Betsy Vorce, a spokeswoman for Lincoln Center, said officials were talking to the ushers involved. “This is one incident where the policy wasn’t followed,” she said. “We’re investigating it. We’ll take corrective action if necessary.”

The ushers do not answer directly to orchestra management, and Mr. Gilbert said no ushers were in sight at the time of the ringing. “I heard this morning that ushers in the hall claimed they didn’t hear it, which sounds ridiculous to me,” he said. “Everybody could hear it.”

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#1823132 - 01/12/12 03:22 AM Re: Public Humiliation for a ringing cell phone owner at N YPhil [Re: Jeff Clef]
kevinb Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/18/09
Posts: 1565
Originally Posted By: Jeff Clef
Kevin, you would never be that guy... the guy that let his phone ring on for two long minutes. Even as many as three or four rings would have simply been disregarded--- just as you say, chalked up to the errors and failings. He must have been thinking (I can only guess), 'If I keep still, maybe they'll think it's someone else's phone.'
[...]
Your compassion for the offender is admirable, but let the punishment fit the crime. I thought it did, and unlike the death penalty, it was actually a deterrent.


You're right -- I wouldn't be that guy. Nobody I know would. The issue is, as you say, one of fitting the punishment to the crime.

I suspect the reason mobile phones arouse so much wrath is because the problem described in the OP happens all the time.

If the story referred to in the OP is correct, then it's describing a public response to what ought, normally, to be a minor irritation as similar to the outrage that might be expected if it were discovered that the man were a child-abuser or a rapist. It's as if some poor devil has been made the scapegoat for all the countless times that we've all be irritated by mobile phones.

It may be an understandable reaction but, in a civilised society, it isn't one that should be condoned.

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#1823138 - 01/12/12 04:06 AM Re: Public Humiliation for a ringing cell phone owner at N YPhil [Re: kevinb]
stores Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/28/09
Posts: 6648
Loc: Here, as opposed to there
Originally Posted By: kevinb

the outrage that might be expected if it were discovered that the man were a child-abuser or a rapist.



I hardly find the outrage described similar to that reserved for rapists and child abusers. That said, the violator shouldn't be allowed to enter the premises again as far as I'm concerned. The idiot just sat there even after being outed. Either not too bright or simply doesn't care, but if I had my way he'd certainly care. By the way, I don't think the thread aptly titled. Obviously, this person was not humiliated.
_________________________

"And if we look at the works of J.S. Bach — a benevolent god to which all musicians should offer a prayer to defend themselves against mediocrity... -Debussy

"It's ok if you disagree with me. I can't force you to be right."

♪ ≠ $


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#1823149 - 01/12/12 05:05 AM Re: Public Humiliation for a ringing cell phone owner at N YPhil [Re: stores]
ando Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/23/10
Posts: 3707
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
Originally Posted By: stores
Originally Posted By: kevinb

the outrage that might be expected if it were discovered that the man were a child-abuser or a rapist.



I hardly find the outrage described similar to that reserved for rapists and child abusers. That said, the violator shouldn't be allowed to enter the premises again as far as I'm concerned. The idiot just sat there even after being outed. Either not too bright or simply doesn't care, but if I had my way he'd certainly care. By the way, I don't think the thread aptly titled. Obviously, this person was not humiliated.


Or he was so humiliated that he couldn't face the "walk of shame" with everybody watching. I doubt he'd be appearing there again any time soon.

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#1823245 - 01/12/12 09:52 AM Re: Public Humiliation for a ringing cell phone owner at N YPhil [Re: nycplayer]
Otis S Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/25/08
Posts: 204
Originally Posted By: nycplayer
Originally Posted By: Otis S

My impression is that the vast majority of people attending New York Philharmonic concerts are reasonably well behaved and would not knowingly create a disturbance for others. The situation described by Andromaque is rare. To me, the key problem is that lesser disturbances such as turning pages in a program or unwrapping a candy can create a disturbance to others, particularly if it occurs during quiet passages. Low levels of ambient noise which might be OK when watching a movie or listening to a a lecture might be totally unsuitable for a classical music performance. Not all of the audience members are attuned to this. If they were, I believe that the noise issue would decrease; the vast majority of people attending such concerts do not want to create disturbances for others. Therefore, I would be in favor of better education so that audiences are aware of the disturbances that even low levels of ambient noise can create. If programs contained a paragraph indicating this, that would be a step in the right direction.


I'm sure the programs from Lincoln Center and/or Carnegie Hall include a section on concert etiquette. I know I have read it in the past. And yet, I also know all too well that phones ringing, candies unwrapped and all kinds of other nuisance behavior have occurred in both venues. I wish what you wrote were true, but I must disagree. Sure, maybe a bunch of people have the best of intentions but I also feel that many others are simply too inconsiderate or selfish to care.

In fact, from "The Concert Experience" on Carnegie Hall's website:

"A concert at Carnegie Hall is memorable, and we want everyone to enjoy their time here.

We ask that you please turn off your cell phone and other electronic devices before entering the Hall, and refrain from taking pictures.

There's no dress code, and we have a coat check. We want you to be comfortable.

Just be considerate of others. Be subtle with perfumes and scents, and please turn off your cell phone and other electronic devices before entering the Hall.

Tapping, humming, and singing along can be lots of fun—but not necessarily for the person sitting next to you. We love to see children in the audience; please remind them that being courteous of others is part of the experience.

If you need any help or have any questions, please feel free to talk with one of our helpful, friendly ushers. And please help yourself to the free Ricola cough drops (remember to unwrap them before the music starts)."

http://www.carnegiehall.org/Information/Concert-Experience/


I am well aware of these types of rules of etiquette. My point was that the statement from the Carnegie Hall Web site quoted in your note as well as similar rules of etiquette in program guides are not sufficient regarding refraining from making noise. Much of what is stated on the Carnegie Hall Web site would be applicable for other public events where sound is not critically important. As I stated in my earlier post, it is critical to emphasize that classical music concerts are more prone to sound disturbances than other public events such as movies and lectures. It needs to be communicated to the audience that at a classical music concert, sound is paramount. Music is unamplified with many quiet passages. The sound of pages being turned in a program or candy being unwrapped may not be problematic in a movie theatre but could very well be a problem in a classical music concert. People who have a deep appreciation for classical music are generally aware of this. However, not everyone who attends a classical music concert falls into this category, and such people may benefit from an explanation of why audiences should try to be as quiet as possible.

Originally Posted By: nycplayer

I wish what you wrote were true, but I must disagree. Sure, maybe a bunch of people have the best of intentions but I also feel that many others are simply too inconsiderate or selfish to care.


My post contains several statements, and the fact that you have an awareness and sensitivity to the noise distractions I referred to indicates agreement with at least part of what I wrote. Perhaps you are referring to my first two sentences:

Originally Posted By: Otis S

My impression is that the vast majority of people attending New York Philharmonic concerts are reasonably well behaved and would not knowingly create a disturbance for others. The situation described by Andromaque is rare.


I stand by this. People creating major noise disturbances are in a distinct minority (undoubtedly below 50% of all concert goers. If that were false, New York Philharmonic concerts would have much considerably higher levels of ambient noise). If the situation described by Andromaque were a common occurrence, then no one would be surprised by what happened and there would not have been publicity for this incident nor this discussion on Piano World.

We have no reliable way of estimating what percentage of people are "too inconsiderate or selfish to care." but it is certainly a distinct minority of concert attendees. The vast majority of people are trying to be quiet; however, not everyone in the audience has the same sensitivity or awareness of ambient noise levels. I believe that a sizeable portion of those making low levels of ambient noise could be encouraged to be quieter through proper education. This will not totally solve the problem but could improve things. Regarding the situation during the Mahler symphony, I agree that better education may be insufficient to curb behavior such as this. Fortunately, incidents as blatant as this are not that common.

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#1823301 - 01/12/12 11:36 AM Re: Public Humiliation for a ringing cell phone owner at N YPhil [Re: kevinb]
Damon Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/22/06
Posts: 6248
Loc: St. Louis area
Originally Posted By: kevinb
...then it's describing a public response to what ought, normally, to be a minor irritation as similar to the outrage that might be expected if it were discovered that the man were a child-abuser or a rapist.


That's the response you would have to a child abuser or a rapist? Mine would be considerably harsher, particularly for the child abuser.
_________________________
It's been scientifically proven that Horowitz sucks.

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#1823308 - 01/12/12 11:42 AM Re: Public Humiliation for a ringing cell phone owner at N YPhil [Re: Damon]
Nikolas Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/26/07
Posts: 5429
Loc: Europe
Originally Posted By: Damon
Originally Posted By: kevinb
...then it's describing a public response to what ought, normally, to be a minor irritation as similar to the outrage that might be expected if it were discovered that the man were a child-abuser or a rapist.


That's the response you would have to a child abuser or a rapist? Mine would be considerably harsher, particularly for the child abuser.
There is a tiny gap to the analogy here: Is the child rapist remorse? Sentenced, gone to jail and back in society? someone we just know was accused and not much else? Someone who's guilty and gone to fish children (in a classical concert unlikely).

I do feel that anyone has a right to stray off the 'right' path and be reinstituted to society, so I'm not sure it's right to know that someone was sentenced for a rape in the 1980s and now he still carries the burden of being accused wherever he goes just for that...

On the other hand if someone recently did it, there are no doubts, etc, then he can very well go to heck, not just get a bit uncomfortable for what he did in a concert hall!
_________________________
http://www.musica-ferrum.com

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#1823315 - 01/12/12 11:55 AM Re: Public Humiliation for a ringing cell phone owner at N YPhil [Re: Nikolas]
Damon Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/22/06
Posts: 6248
Loc: St. Louis area
Originally Posted By: Nikolas
Originally Posted By: Damon
Originally Posted By: kevinb
...then it's describing a public response to what ought, normally, to be a minor irritation as similar to the outrage that might be expected if it were discovered that the man were a child-abuser or a rapist.


That's the response you would have to a child abuser or a rapist? Mine would be considerably harsher, particularly for the child abuser.
There is a tiny gap to the analogy here: Is the child rapist remorse? Sentenced, gone to jail and back in society? someone we just know was accused and not much else? Someone who's guilty and gone to fish children (in a classical concert unlikely).

I do feel that anyone has a right to stray off the 'right' path and be reinstituted to society, so I'm not sure it's right to know that someone was sentenced for a rape in the 1980s and now he still carries the burden of being accused wherever he goes just for that...

On the other hand if someone recently did it, there are no doubts, etc, then he can very well go to heck, not just get a bit uncomfortable for what he did in a concert hall!


If you are going to combine child abuse and rape, I would be harsher still. If my child were raped, I would not rest until the perpetrator was dead. I can't see doing that to a person with a cell phone, but he would certainly get a comment and a glare. mad
_________________________
It's been scientifically proven that Horowitz sucks.

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#1823317 - 01/12/12 11:59 AM Re: Public Humiliation for a ringing cell phone owner at N YPhil [Re: Damon]
kevinb Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/18/09
Posts: 1565
Originally Posted By: Damon
Originally Posted By: kevinb
...then it's describing a public response to what ought, normally, to be a minor irritation as similar to the outrage that might be expected if it were discovered that the man were a child-abuser or a rapist.


That's the response you would have to a child abuser or a rapist? Mine would be considerably harsher, particularly for the child abuser.


I'm not talking about penalties, I'm talking about the sudden rush of anger and the corresponding unwillingness to allow a suspected person any opportunity to explain. It's the same kind of mob response that led to a London paediatrician's house being vandalised a few years ago, because people were unable to stop and think about whether there might be other words beginning with 'paed-' than 'paedophile'.

We all put up with inconsiderate and careless behaviour from one another, all the time. Nobody, I feel sure, is guiltless in this respect -- certainly not me. But there's something about mobile phone irritation which seems to spark an irrational and disproportionate wrath.

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#1823321 - 01/12/12 12:07 PM Re: Public Humiliation for a ringing cell phone owner at N YPhil [Re: kevinb]
Damon Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/22/06
Posts: 6248
Loc: St. Louis area
Originally Posted By: kevinb
But there's something about mobile phone irritation which seems to spark an irrational and disproportionate wrath.


I'd like to see some device similar to a walk-through metal detector, that would completely wipe the contents of a cellphone and render it useless, installed at the entrance of concert venues and movie theaters.
_________________________
It's been scientifically proven that Horowitz sucks.

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#1823332 - 01/12/12 12:20 PM Re: Public Humiliation for a ringing cell phone owner at N YPhil [Re: Damon]
Nikolas Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/26/07
Posts: 5429
Loc: Europe
Originally Posted By: Damon
Originally Posted By: kevinb
But there's something about mobile phone irritation which seems to spark an irrational and disproportionate wrath.


I'd like to see some device similar to a walk-through metal detector, that would completely wipe the contents of a cellphone and render it useless, installed at the entrance of concert venues and movie theaters.
There are such devices... The ones that cancel any signal inside a certain area... I know because here in Greece some venues still use it, but it's unfrair and dangerous in all honesty. Can you imagine the 1 urgent situation that requires a cell phone and that not working (eg... your child is not well and the baby sitter is trying to call you... Can you really think that this does NOT require a cell phone and picking it up even if it means disrupting a recital? Although I'd do my best NOT to disrupt anything... )
_________________________
http://www.musica-ferrum.com

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#1823337 - 01/12/12 12:29 PM Re: Public Humiliation for a ringing cell phone owner at N YPhil [Re: Nikolas]
Damon Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/22/06
Posts: 6248
Loc: St. Louis area
Originally Posted By: Nikolas
Originally Posted By: Damon
Originally Posted By: kevinb
But there's something about mobile phone irritation which seems to spark an irrational and disproportionate wrath.


I'd like to see some device similar to a walk-through metal detector, that would completely wipe the contents of a cellphone and render it useless, installed at the entrance of concert venues and movie theaters.
There are such devices... The ones that cancel any signal inside a certain area... I know because here in Greece some venues still use it, but it's unfrair and dangerous in all honesty. Can you imagine the 1 urgent situation that requires a cell phone and that not working (eg... your child is not well and the baby sitter is trying to call you... Can you really think that this does NOT require a cell phone and picking it up even if it means disrupting a recital? Although I'd do my best NOT to disrupt anything... )


Unfortunately, that is just the world people have created for themselves. I was able to get along just fine before cellphones existed. The obvious answer to that situation is to have an adult backup (like we used to do). If you are one those people who have not cultivated the adequate network to do this, stay home. I'm not concerned with anyone's cellphone dependency.
_________________________
It's been scientifically proven that Horowitz sucks.

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#1823389 - 01/12/12 01:35 PM Re: Public Humiliation for a ringing cell phone owner at N YPhil [Re: Andromaque]
Andromaque Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/29/08
Posts: 3886
Loc: New York
Damon, so extreme!
Can you imagine if a child or someone you care about, needed help while you were indulging in a Wagnerian extravaganza, and people could not reach you for several hours! In the meantime decisions about medical care had to be made without you. Sure, we lived without cell phones before, but why not embrace the technology and modulate its use. I always silence my phone and look at it only if it vibes, but very discretely. I have had occasionally to leave the concert hall for something that could not - and thankfully did not- wait.
As for invoking rape and abuse, that is really inappropriate and should not be discussed in the same thread.

I think that cell phones will remain an irritant until someone invents a remote silencing (not signal canceling) technology. This particular incident was egregious due to the duration of the ring, which apparently was an alarm. I really think that the phone owner was mortified and too self conscious to reach out to his device. The conductor reacted unusually due to the persistence of the nuisance.
The need to "educate" audiences is obvious but the effectiveness of available non-overreaching means is questionable. In some halls, the MC will make an announcement about cell phones (and hearing aids) and ask the audience to turn off their phones "now" then pauses for 30 seconds to drive the message home. I don't know if it works better than the pre-recorded or projected announcements to do so.


As for those who say that the offender was not "humiliated" enough, I wonder what else they would have done if they were there (Stores??).

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#1823398 - 01/12/12 01:55 PM Re: Public Humiliation for a ringing cell phone owner at N YPhil [Re: Andromaque]
Jeff Clef Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/05/08
Posts: 4441
Loc: San Jose, CA
"...Is the child rapist remorse[ful]? Sentenced, gone to jail and back in society? someone we just know was accused and not much else?..."

An interesting point; accusations (many fabricated) of child molestation are, if not a standard tactic in divorce and child custody cases, still a very common ruse of an angry ex, and are brought with an ulterior motive in mind. Consider Casey Anthony's child murder trial, where accusing the dad (and not very convincingly) of child rape was used as a get-out-of-jail-free card. One of my neighbors has written to the HOA Board three separate times accusing neighbors (twice) and the landscape management company (once) of child molestation; two of these shells were lobbed over a dispute about a parking space. And now it's become a PianoWorld punchline, made in reference to an inconsiderate concertgoer.

Be careful with this. We've become more aware in recent years, partly because of research studies, of how really serious this is for a young person. It is a serious mistake to trivialize it.
_________________________
Clef


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#1823405 - 01/12/12 02:09 PM Re: Public Humiliation for a ringing cell phone owner at N YPhil [Re: Andromaque]
Damon Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/22/06
Posts: 6248
Loc: St. Louis area
Originally Posted By: Andromaque
Damon, so extreme!
Can you imagine if a child or someone you care about, needed help while you were indulging in a Wagnerian extravaganza, and people could not reach you for several hours!

I think about it all the time, one of the disadvantages of being a parent I think. It is in that interest that I seldom indulge myself at all and when I do, it is for shorter duration. I make sure the people I care about are covered.

Originally Posted By: Andromaque

As for invoking rape and abuse, that is really inappropriate and should not be discussed in the same thread.


I agree and I'm glad you started a new paragraph albeit without the extra space. Thank Kevin for that.

Originally Posted By: Andromaque

I think that cell phones will remain an irritant


I agree. smile
_________________________
It's been scientifically proven that Horowitz sucks.

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#1823420 - 01/12/12 02:26 PM Re: Public Humiliation for a ringing cell phone owner at N YPhil [Re: Andromaque]
David-G Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/17/06
Posts: 1244
Loc: London
Originally Posted By: Andromaque
As for invoking rape and abuse, that is really inappropriate and should not be discussed in the same thread.

I agree 100%.

Originally Posted By: Andromaque
I really think that the phone owner was mortified and too self conscious to reach out to his device.

I am afraid that I cannot agree with you. Whatever the mortification of reaching to the phone and turning it off, the mortification of leaving it ringing would surely be far greater. At least for a normal person. If this person was actually aware that his phone was ringing, I do not think he could have felt mortified at all.


Edited by David-G (01/12/12 04:14 PM)

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#1823424 - 01/12/12 02:30 PM Re: Public Humiliation for a ringing cell phone owner at N YPhil [Re: Damon]
David-G Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/17/06
Posts: 1244
Loc: London
Originally Posted By: Damon
Originally Posted By: Andromaque
Damon, so extreme!
Can you imagine if a child or someone you care about, needed help while you were indulging in a Wagnerian extravaganza, and people could not reach you for several hours!

I think about it all the time, one of the disadvantages of being a parent I think. It is in that interest that I seldom indulge myself at all and when I do, it is for shorter duration. I make sure the people I care about are covered.

I am with Damon on this. If someone attends a concert or an opera, their cellphone should be TURNED OFF during the performance. Of course, the phone can be on in the interval(s).

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#1823430 - 01/12/12 02:35 PM Re: Public Humiliation for a ringing cell phone owner at N YPhil [Re: Andromaque]
Andromaque Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/29/08
Posts: 3886
Loc: New York
Well david, your countryman Lebrecht has the answer for you. Check it out here : It is a combination of ignorance and mortification. Apparently the poor man's name is now known (he is a long term subscriber)!!!!

From "Slipped Disc":
Here’s the story (and you read it here first): they guy had just bought himself an i-phone. No longer in the first flush of youth, he was not quite sure how the darned thing worked but he knew his etiquette well enough to shut it off before the concert started.

What he did not shut off was a preset alarm. When it gave a marimba ring, he thought it must be someone else and looked around in irritation. Then he found it was him, and the conductor was glaring at him like a schoolboy who’d let off a stinkbomb. Mortified? Our guy didn;t know where to look.

He’s gone to ground, maybe Florida, and will never live down the shame.

I’m not going to be the one to disclose his name.

But it does make a case for concertgoers, especially the over-50s, to be asked to check in their phones with their coats. Right?


Edited by Andromaque (01/12/12 02:37 PM)

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#1823431 - 01/12/12 02:35 PM Re: Public Humiliation for a ringing cell phone owner at N YPhil [Re: Andromaque]
AZNpiano Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/07/07
Posts: 5593
Loc: Orange County, CA
You know you have a slow news day when this stupid story turned up in the local news update at 10:00 AM. Is it even newsworthy??
_________________________
Private Piano Teacher and MTAC Member

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#1823435 - 01/12/12 02:40 PM Re: Public Humiliation for a ringing cell phone owner at N YPhil [Re: Damon]
Nikolas Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/26/07
Posts: 5429
Loc: Europe
Originally Posted By: Damon
Originally Posted By: Andromaque
Damon, so extreme!
Can you imagine if a child or someone you care about, needed help while you were indulging in a Wagnerian extravaganza, and people could not reach you for several hours!

I think about it all the time, one of the disadvantages of being a parent I think. It is in that interest that I seldom indulge myself at all and when I do, it is for shorter duration. I make sure the people I care about are covered.
Are you a parent Damon? (I think not from the reads of it)...

I'll tell you a couple of stories...

1. I was in Tescos with both my sons, aged then 1 and 3. The 3 year old could walk (of course he could) and could run around. I could NOT put both children on the cart, so I had the 1 year old on and the other one with me, who was already talking and making decisions on his own.

You can imagine the terror of loosing sight of him for just 30 secs?!?!? Can you?!? (this is all based to the assumption that you are not a parent, right?). I was terrified. I started calling for him and got no reply. I looked to the one corridor and the next and no reply. Then I reached for my bag as an instinct (to call his mother? She was at work), and there he was behind my bag...

but the terror of loosing my son was almost too much.

2. Still in the UK, with a cell phone when it rang. I was at home, so no problem there really. It's my mother and she had a scary tone: My father was in the hospital. So I packed my things, got a ticket in easyjet (VERY expensive if you book the last instance) and got into the plane.

My father is still fine, but it was scary.

In the drive to the airport (Gatwick: had to take a cab to South Ealing Station head over center and grab the Gatwick express), I managed, after quite a few attempts to locate both the nursery, where my children were kept (that was the easy part and they were very understanding), and my wife (that was the hard part, since she kinda disregards the existance of HER cell phone).

I think that it's obvious that in some cases a cell phone IS needed and in some cases it IS helpful. Playing games on a phone is not a necessity, ringing out loud is not a necessity when in concert, logging in PianoWorld every 2 minutes in your smart phone is almost a necessity (... ) but I think you get the picture.

___________________

Still, the guy in question was awful:

1. Turn the bloody thing off once you hear it ringing. You can silence it later on, see what it's about and text the ringer back.
2. Have the damn thing turned off before the concert. It's common sense, and even if you're forgetful, you are bound to get a warning from somewhere, unless you're already dreaming...
3. Say you're sorry if the actual concert stops for your shake! Don't nod your head like you lost your voice. Your cell phone was loud enough, you can't be the same?
_________________________
http://www.musica-ferrum.com

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#1823439 - 01/12/12 02:43 PM Re: Public Humiliation for a ringing cell phone owner at N YPhil [Re: Damon]
kevinb Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/18/09
Posts: 1565
Originally Posted By: Damon
Originally Posted By: Andromaque
Damon, so extreme!
Can you imagine if a child or someone you care about, needed help while you were indulging in a Wagnerian extravaganza, and people could not reach you for several hours!

I think about it all the time, one of the disadvantages of being a parent I think. It is in that interest that I seldom indulge myself at all and when I do, it is for shorter duration. I make sure the people I care about are covered.

Originally Posted By: Andromaque

As for invoking rape and abuse, that is really inappropriate and should not be discussed in the same thread.


I agree and I'm glad you started a new paragraph albeit without the extra space. Thank Kevin for that.


It seems appropriate enough to me -- I was simply highlighting situations where people are inclined to be viciously judgemental without being in full possession of the facts. Nobody knows why the fellow in the OP did not switch off his phone, or could not silence it when it went off. Maybe it was a new phone and he didn't recognize the ring-tone, thinking it was somebody else's. Maybe he thought he'd left it at work, but one of his colleagues had helpfully slipped it into his coat pocket.

We don't know -- but nobody asked. There's was just an immediate and relentless leap to judgement. This kind of attitude is normally engendered only by people who get accused of vicious and abhorrent crimes. Hence my analogy.

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#1823443 - 01/12/12 02:48 PM Re: Public Humiliation for a ringing cell phone owner at N YPhil [Re: Andromaque]
RealPlayer Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/02/03
Posts: 2359
Loc: NYC
Have the ushers collect all cell phones as patrons are being led to their seats. They can be returned after the concert.

(Well, I can dream, anyway.)
_________________________
Joe

www.josephkubera.com

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#1823453 - 01/12/12 03:03 PM Re: Public Humiliation for a ringing cell phone owner at N YPhil [Re: David-G]
Damon Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/22/06
Posts: 6248
Loc: St. Louis area
Originally Posted By: David-G
....some stuff....


Never mind. smile


Edited by Damon (01/12/12 04:27 PM)
Edit Reason: no longer applicable
_________________________
It's been scientifically proven that Horowitz sucks.

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#1823463 - 01/12/12 03:18 PM Re: Public Humiliation for a ringing cell phone owner at N YPhil [Re: Nikolas]
Damon Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/22/06
Posts: 6248
Loc: St. Louis area
Originally Posted By: Nikolas
Originally Posted By: Damon
Originally Posted By: Andromaque
Damon, so extreme!
Can you imagine if a child or someone you care about, needed help while you were indulging in a Wagnerian extravaganza, and people could not reach you for several hours!

I think about it all the time, one of the disadvantages of being a parent I think. It is in that interest that I seldom indulge myself at all and when I do, it is for shorter duration. I make sure the people I care about are covered.
Are you a parent Damon? (I think not from the reads of it)...


I thought that emboldened sentence kind of established that I am a parent. smile I've also experienced the horror of my son slipping my sight at a busy amusement park. An extremely nauseating 15 minutes of my life. My phone was no help (and I don't turn it off for amusement parks)
_________________________
It's been scientifically proven that Horowitz sucks.

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#1823465 - 01/12/12 03:23 PM Re: Public Humiliation for a ringing cell phone owner at N YPhil [Re: Andromaque]
Nikolas Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/26/07
Posts: 5429
Loc: Europe
Ok... Sorry... didn't get it... Again sorry about that...
_________________________
http://www.musica-ferrum.com

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#1823479 - 01/12/12 03:43 PM Re: Public Humiliation for a ringing cell phone owner at N YPhil [Re: Andromaque]
Andromaque Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/29/08
Posts: 3886
Loc: New York
Damon,
You deserved a new paragraph but not a space because you responded to Kevin's comment.
Also I still do not get how you can have things "covered". Sure an adult could be in charge but wouldn't you rather get a (vibe) call or text and get the heck out of there if need be, the conductor non-withstanding? If I could not be reached during concerts, I would definitely not go as frequently as I do now.

Kevin, we know why he could not turn it off. See my last response. As always, it was a complicated situation: the "human" factor does not always fit pre-set patterns.

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#1823487 - 01/12/12 03:57 PM Re: Public Humiliation for a ringing cell phone owner at N YPhil [Re: Andromaque]
Damon Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/22/06
Posts: 6248
Loc: St. Louis area
Originally Posted By: Andromaque

Also I still do not get how you can have things "covered". Sure an adult could be in charge but wouldn't you rather get a (vibe) call or text and get the heck out of there if need be, the conductor non-withstanding? If I could not be reached during concerts, I would definitely not go as frequently as I do now.


Here in the sticks, we call it family. I don't feel a pressing need to be available 24/7 and consider it one of the evils of modern technology that I'm expected to be.
_________________________
It's been scientifically proven that Horowitz sucks.

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#1823499 - 01/12/12 04:16 PM Re: Public Humiliation for a ringing cell phone owner at N YPhil [Re: Damon]
David-G Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/17/06
Posts: 1244
Loc: London
Originally Posted By: Damon
And thanks for removing all space between this comment and my name.

Apologies! That was unintended, I mismanaged the quote. I have edited the post.

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