Yamaha called me today to tell me there is a CP5 to test in their showroom. I got my Sennheiser HD595 headphones and also a thumb drive with the latest firmware 1.20 for CP5. I am not sure if they would have agreed upon me uploading firmware but they didn't notice and everything went well, I also reset it to factory settings

What can I say - WOW! I love the keyboard, I really love it! Yes, it is light and fast but feels so realistic. It reminds me exactly the touch of an old August Forster grand I tried once. I remember I was in love with that light touch and I have just experienced the same pleasant feeling with the Yamaha. Apparently it seems I've been after lightweight actions. I didn't expected it...

The default CFIIIS Grand Piano is fabulous. It can be mellow, it can be bright, it is dynamic and realistic. Unfortunately it misses string resonance, and the damper resonance is kind of weak but otherwise it's an adorable sound and it connects perfectly with the keyboard. To be honest, I've never experienced the same with any other digital piano I've tried so far. I am not sure if I like the S6B grand, it sounds muffled and dull in the middle range of the keyboard. Maybe a little bit of EQ could help.

I've stayed there for an hour and tried all the possible sounds (I think in the yamaha they are called "performances" or "setups"). I am amazed at how many absolutely terrific sounds are there. All of the Rhodes presets are great straight out of the box. I don't think I would ever need any tweaking because they sound exactly the way I like it. The main Rhodes setup reminded me of my favorite Herbie Hancock recording of Butterfly and Chameleon. Wurlies, Clavs, Harpsichord, Organs, Synths, Strings, Pads - I can't find a single sound which wasn't great. Well, maybe for some choir sounds.

I absolutely don't care about the main piano sound being stretched, looped, missing string resonance, etc., the whole package feels like a real instrument to be inspired from. I am really thinking of selling my CA63 and buying a CP5

It's amazing how two people can play the same piano and have such differing views. I also like the default piano but do not like the fact that three notes or so respond with a louder than expected sample. (I've written about this in the past.)

Also, while you're thrilled with the Rhodes sound, I am not and was forced to create my own. I thought the lack of decent, out-of-the-box Rhodes sounds was a major disappointment.

I thought the action was much too light and miss the heavier action of my since sold CP300.

I will sell my CP5 when the next generation from Yamaha is released. The operating system on the CP5 is the most user unfriendly I have encountered. (I now completely understand how it works, but it is not intuitive.)

Dave, I would probably agree with most of your statements if I play more - the three notes, the Rhodes sound which I played only through headphones but who knows how it will sound with other instruments.

It was just a first impression. I still hold it that CP5 is the digital piano that created the best first impression among the other digital pianos I've played so far.

However I like the light action and I am not sure whether I will miss the heavy one in CA63. At least today, for the one hour I played it, I didn't miss the RM3. Yet, with more playing, I can change my mind.

P.S. I completely agree about the menu. CP5 has got to be the most unintuitive digital piano I've ever seen Anyway, in a matter of 10 minutes I was already at home but I am a software engineer

Those notes in question that stick out at higher velocity levels ... the B, C, C# and D two octaves above middle c are the culprits (using the default grand piano).

Go back and play the piano and you'll hear that those notes respond much louder than you expect but only when playing ff or fff. I can live with minor flaws but those notes stuck out, unacceptably so (and Yamaha was contacted by me). I have to also admit that I did not initially hear that flaw; I only noticed it after about two weeks of use.

Have you installed the latest firmware 1.20? Here's the description:

"The CF Grand, S6 Grand, 69Wr, and 77Wr preset Voices have been newly organized for greater dynamic and expressive response by improving the Voice tunings."

Maybe it's the same issue and they've addressed it?

I'm not surprised. I've mentioned before how most of the actions that people here most seem to rave about are far heavier than any quality grand piano I ever played. I'm surprised so many people like the DPs with the heavier actions, and I wonder if they have much experience playing quality acoustic pianos. It's why I just commented in another thread about how I wouldn't necessarily take the action of a Yamaha P155 over a DGX640/P95. Better in some ways, worse in others. I think someone needs to play both and make their own determination.

When I had that CA93 in my living room of my home for a few days last year, after about an hour on the Kawai, I'd take a short break and walk out back to my studio where the CP5 was set up. The playing connection, sound, action, everything on the CP5 trumped the CA93. I had the piano store where I bought it pick up the CA93 within 3 days.

If you don't have to move the CP5 around all that much it's great. I'm holding onto mine at least for the time being unless Yamaha previews some lightweight replacement in a few days here.

For a serious piano player, especially one coming more from the jazz world, I think it still blows away everything else out there in regards to overall playing experience.

Come on chaps. Don't do this to me. I've only briefly played a CP5 once and really liked it and your enthusiasm is giving me the itch to explore one properly.

Do you think I'd have access to PW in debtors prison? That's where I'm going to end up.

One thing I would take issue with is the assertion that the Kawai RM3 action is particularly heavy - I don't find it so. Yamaha GH3 is by some margin the heaviest DP action I've played. But neither did I find on my (brief) tickle the CP5 too light.

I do think that Yamaha voices have an immediacy and intimacy that can really hit the spot, despite any possible technical shortcomings. The soft CF on the CP1 is really beautiful - I can't remember if I found that voice as a preset on the CP5.

I was seduced by the CP5's tone and feel on the showroom floor, but although the love affair with the latter never went away, with constant use I found the AP tones just _too_ perfect, even a little sterile. Maybe it's the lack of string resonance. I don't hear a lot of wire in the CP5 sample, though there's an appreciable amount of wood.

Scott's point about grand piano action weights is well made, however.

Steve, if you love the touch of your MP10 (and even the heavier AG) you may not like the CP5 at all. I can't say it's substantially lighter than the RM3 but it feels undoubtedly lighter. I was yesterday at Yamaha and played about half an hour on a Clavinova CLP-440 and found the keyboard the same weight as the CA63 but there was some initial resistance on the keys which I didn't like at all. The CP5 is totally different - it is light but feels good. Personally I like my CA63 but can't deny that from time to time I found myself asking for a little bit lighter keyboard. maybe something in between CA63 and CP5 would be ideal. I will certainly not state CP5 is "better" compared action to action vs RM3. They both feel good and different. However with the sound on, CP5 seems more playable.

Also, the lack of graded keys could be somehow felt on the CP5, mostly on the bass keys. Not in a bad way, but I would prefer them to be graded, I am used to a little bit heavier bass keys. However this doesn't make it less expressive.

I am not the guy who likes DX7 piano patches, they are somehow cheesy sounding, especially in 21-st century, but in fact there were many types and I enjoyed 2-3 the patches Especially the "wooden DX7" or something. Many digital pianos nowadays sample only one of the signature DX7-piano patches and it's the one with the synth-type quality which I don't like (it's also included). However the "wooden" one is very warm, almost like a vibraphone and I liked it

It is and unfortunatley it's not on the CP5--I really wish it were. It is on the CP50 though.. Even with the lesser quality converters on the 50, the soft CF sounds good. In fact I think it's the best voice on the CP50, at least for solo playing.

maybe something in between CA63 and CP5 would be ideal

Maybe Roland PHA II/III?

Yes, maybe... I've tested Roland HP-305 once when I was in France for 10-15 minutes and I liked it, although it didn't "wow" me... And it was long ago so I have already forgotten how it feels. I have to try a Roland with SN again but there are no official distributors in Bulgaria, you can only order it blindly

Also, listening to SN piano demos, I am a little bit afraid it's not exactly my type of piano sound.

To be honest, I'm completely confused. Am I right that CyberGene switched in another thread weight from "heavy" to "heavy+" on his CA63? So why not just switch it back to heavy or standard setting then?
Also, is AG action really that heavy-weight? It should be action from C1 IIRC. I'm asking since I'd like to collect some DPs candidates for my shopping testing for decision if to go DP route, AP small grand route or both. More described in this thread: http://www.pianoworld.com/forum/ubbthrea...tml#Post1823130

Cybergene says:Yes, maybe... I've tested Roland HP-305 once when I was in France for 10-15 minutes and I liked it, although it didn't "wow" me... And it was long ago so I have already forgotten how it feels. I have to try a Roland with SN again but there are no official distributors in Bulgaria, you can only order it blindly frown

Also, listening to SN piano demos, I am a little bit afraid it's not exactly my type of piano sound.


Yes, that sounds similar to what I think. I really like SN on the whole - it's certainly enough for what I want at the moment, though I have certain reservations about the upper midrange. And the sound is too sharp (lacking sweetness) through the HP302 speaker system. But overall, a good option for me - by far the best in that price range.

But the action of the keyboard was for me better than Yamaha GH, Kawai & the (overly light) Yamaha CP5 (though I quite liked that as a gigging keyboard type thing - just not as a home piano).

As I've stated before, Yamaha's and Kawai's main DP actions seem rather on the heavy side to me - can't quite understand why unless maybe it's overcompensation for not being 'real'.

KarelG, if you read again that thread, you'll discover that by switching the touch to heavy+, I have actually, and paradoxically, felt keys lighter and softer. That was the whole point of the topic then and I wanted a discussion of what exactly is stiff, heavy, light, soft, hard and all these words when I for one experience the opposite of what's expected.

Absolutely the heaviest. It is a grand piano action (albeit modified) not a digital piano action. As such, it can be regulated, and I plan to have mine adjusted so it is not so heavy. This will be a job for a piano tech, though. Likely one recommended by Yamaha.

In This Link it is described how new grand pianos come with heavier and heavier actions which are expected to loosen by itself but that's not always the case and the action remains stiffer than what's the norm.

CyberGene, there is no offence here! I'm neither native English speaker so my previous post might sound badly. Sorry for that if it did.
Anyway I reread your previous thread and what I just like to say is that I'm really confused by your findings. Perhaps this is just my inexperience with DPs as such... Anyway, finally I've purchased senheisser's 598 headphones to perform some DPs test in 250km distant music shop (N1/CA63/CA93 comparison with Yamaha's and Petrof's grands). So hopefully in a month or so I'll be more informed and will understand what you are talking about...

KarelG, no offense taken, my English is far from perfect too (we are both slavic languages speakers) and sometimes we get lost in translation when speaking English

By the way, my Scholze acoustic piano is manufactured in the former Czechoslovakia (to my knowledge that's a german brand owned currently by Petrof), so I admire the experience Czechs have in manufacturing fine acoustic pianos Ohh, I almost forgot, at this very moment I am drinking a Staropramen beer, one of my favorite beers!

Cheers from Sofia!

The 1.2 firmware update for the CP5 was mentioned earlier. I knew that I had updated the CP5 but had forgotten how to know that for a fact.

From the zip file that Yamaha offers for the update ...

Hold down the [USER] and [EXT] buttons, then power on the CP5 to check the firmware version to confirm that the CP5 has been successfully updated.
If "Version 1.20" is shown in the display, that the unit has been successfully updated.

An interesting fact is that prior to 1.20 you can't check the firmware version by holding USER and EXT while powering on. This functionality was introduced only with the 1.20.

Dave, can you confirm that you can observe the bug with the louder notes even with 1.20?

Yea, the update did not correct that issue. Dewster analyzed the patch and posted the information here.

Hmm, that sounds really weird. Is this noticeable on other CP5-s? I am really concerned about that since I already put my CA63 on sale and will probably order a CP5 or its successor (if there is such announced on NAMM).

I noticed it on the first demo play in the store but to tell you the truth, after using it for a year and half, at least for me, it's a total non-issue.

I should now refer to you both Daves by your full name

Dave Ferris, have you noticed it after you've already known this issue existed or you discovered it yourself?

For me, when I play the default piano patch and play those four offending notes, I expect to hear a slightly softer sound than what I hear (when I play ff or fff); that compounded with a lighter action makes recording the CP5 slightly more problematic at least for me.

On jobs it's less of an issue simply because there's more background noise and more flaws (of all flavors) go unnoticed. On recordings it's another story. You have to be consciously aware that a few notes will respond differently than what you expect ... and that's the issue for me.

I would think this could be corrected with an update (focusing in on those offending notes). But as I wrote earlier, I didn't notice those notes at first.

I believe my first post regarding this issue was here ... http://www.pianoworld.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/1441711/CP5%20...%20some%20thoughts.html

(I was Googling for the results Dewster posted. Perhaps someone can locate the post with those results.)

Found it ...

link

Listening to the test, it sounds fairly pronounced. I am wondering how noticeable it would be in real playing. Maybe I'll have to repeat my CP5 test or better wait for its replacement NAMM is coming, there's already NP2, rumors of SN2 are spreading and hopefully CP6 would kick them all

P.S. I am wondering whether Yamaha could have silently fixed this issue with a newer wave-ROM update in their recent boards. How many people have confirmed this issue with their CP5-s?