Pertaining to practicing of course but also to many other aspects of life, the feeling of feeling like you do so much but in the same token you never do enough?

I don't because I do my best and leave it at that.

Maybe this isn't the best forum but I have a great teacher, she is very attentive to my needs, but I feel silly sometimes because she is a concert pianist and I am an absolute beginner. I know she teaches because she needs the income but sometimes I feel so inadequate and shy because here is this teacher who regularly plays Lizt and I can barely play She'll be coming round the mountain.

Alans, I asked a friend of a friend to teach me piano. She's really accomplished and has very good young students. I was so worried that I was insulting her by even asking. I live in Okinawa, and don't speak Japanese well, and I wanted her to teach me because she speaks English and I was struggling to find an English speaking teacher. It's working out ok. In some ways I think it's a good learning experience for her, too, since I'm her first adult student.

Joeb84, I definitely wish I had more time to practice. But when that "I'm *so* bad at this and I don't feel like I'm getting better" feeling creeps in, I try to just be patient and revel in the smallest accomplishments.

Every day of my life.

So do I but my best isn't good enough...clearly

I always figure I haven't done my best yet...but maybe today's the day!

Yes I was talking to my piano teacher today about how I have been slacking in the practice department so starting tomorrow I will start a journal and strive to practice 3-4 hours a day. I just hope I stick with it. I believe I will after "d*cking around" for so long...

Along these lines, today I was on a very long drive listening to Alfred Brendel play Beethoven sonatas, a new-to-me album of them. First reaction - they're gorgeous. Well, some of them are particularly wonderfully gorgeous and moving. But after a while on this drive, I was hit by - "lord, I will never be able to play these, much less like this, and that is a horrible thing." He isn't playing the notes - he's playing the whole damn piano like it's part of him.

So sometimes I think "wow, I can play some piano now, that's great", and sometimes I despair because I would love to have that kind of musical... depth... and I don't think it's going to happen in this lifetime.

But hey, I can play me some piano now.

Yes, I don't practice enough.

Yes, I want to be able to play better. I spend as much time as I can at it, though. In fact, now I think about it, I'm pretty pleased with my progress after 9 months or so.

I usually get that feeling when my practice time is less structured and without a goal. I try to say, "I'm going to work on X for 6 months". Hard to not see progress when you set clear goals. I also try to play for enjoyment often, improvise, really connect with what I'm playing. Since there's no real goal, there's less pressure. It's a balance for me. But I must admit, some days I give up and stop practicing out of frustration. Sometimes you just have those days.

For those talking about feeling bad for being so less skilled than your teacher, you have to see it from their perspective. Anyone who enjoys teaching loves to see even the complete beginner progress. I've had extreme pride watching a 6 year old play Yankee Doodle, or watching a new adult student play a simple Beatles song with no mistakes for the first time. Think of something you do really well and imagine yourself teaching that to someone else. Now imagine how good that feels when that person understands what you are teaching them.

Does a elementary school teacher not have pride when their young students get 2+3 right? I would hope that teacher's math skills were WAY above that level. It's a 2 way street.

Good enough for what ?

Good enough to become a concert pianist ?

Maybe not.

I have been at this for 7 years and I am not nearly as good as others are who have been at it much less time than me.

However, I still love to play what I can play. I am getting better and I am enjoying the process.

Leave it at that. Enjoy the process.

I really wish I could get myself to enjoy the process and journey more like the way I enjoy car rides going somewhere or something analogous to that haha

Yes!

I feel that way too and I remember talking to some people about regretting the fact that I didn't keep up with music and the piano all these years. They said "well some of us can't even play an instrument at all". And I thought well that's a good point some people don't even get to the point we're at. Some people just keep wishing they could or never thing of it as a possibility. So, I guess we should give ourselves credit for that.

I know what you mean. I find myself making excuses as to why I didn't get to practice as much as I wanted to (work etc). But she teaches at a university as well as gives lessons where I go AND afterwards she stays to practice for a few hours. AND she will have "lessons" with a mentor of hers and it will last for hours. Then I feel like a jerk-ha ha ha

Amen to that! Enjoy the process.
I think if you don't enjoy the process , then piano may not be in your best interest, sorry to say.

I don't set out to do much, so my days are filled with success!

Ed

2 steps forward, then 1 back. Rinse and repeat....forever!

Honestly, this is how it works. Always has.

Yea...piano isn't in your best interest or in your near future. I'm a psychic now. That's almost like telling a child that is learning to walk, walking isn't in your best interest hahahahaha oh my GOD. Get a clue guy whoever you are...

I'm glad to hear someone who has been at it longer than me say this.

hang in there, joeb84

This thread is for me! I am a 57 year old beginner and have been a bit intimidated by the advanced adult beginners on this forum! You guys rock!

If you had half a clue Joe you would know you were talking to a lady and not a guy there.

And if you had a full clue, you would also know that everyone is entitled to their opinion, whether you agree with it or not.

Thats the wonderfull thing about opinions, they are just that, and no ones opinion is any greater or lesser than anyone elses.

Remember your teachers are human too! I'm sure there are many things we all have more experience with and could do better. Maybe you are a mechanic and if your teacher's car bombed out you would be like a supreme being with amazing talent if you were able to fix the thing.

My teacher has been playing since she was 6 and has a masters degree in music. I hope she is way better than me!!! I just try to have fun and have some sort of sense of humor about my mess ups.

Sometimes I really enjoy the different finger exercises etc. because it is a small sense of accomplishment when I can master them. Of course there are always the next ones which are more challenging but that is part of the game.....always another level!

My teacher is cool in that we try to pick some songs that can sound beautiful that I will be able to be successful with. It is nice to be able to play a song that people know and I enjoy. I'm not there to become a concert pianist at this stage of the game.

Have fun and relax !!!!

Whatever, it's still an ignorant thing to say. I've seen everything in this life and if somebody has a dream and they want to pursue it, thats up to them. No matter what, people are gonna say and think what they want your right but I disagree with her statement haha And actually I do have a clue...a BIG one. Nice try tho bud

After almost 18 months of 90% perseverent practice i find myself on and off with these thoughts. Sometimes i feel like i'm just not progressing and after a shortwhile, especially after short few days time breaks, i feel like i made significant jumps:)

No, what piano joy said made complete sense, and we've seen this time and time again: If one doesn't enjoy the process then they will not succeed, period.

It's an ugly truth, and if you choose not to believe it, then so be it, but don't bash piano joy ("get a clue guy...", "it's an ignorant thing to say...") for expressing her opinion, again one many here know and have observed to be true. And she's not squashing anyone's dream, since if you truly want to be a great pianist, then this doesn't apply to you as you must enjoy practicing at least to some degree.

Ehhh come to think of it she's right in a way. If you don't love what you do then why do it? I am working on it haha I sincerely apologize

I think you will find that everyone will agree that you most certainly have not achieved that.
No one has,
no one ever will.

I agree, and one more thing: Stop comparing yourself to others.

I think if I had a a God's eye view of the world this would be my reaction.

Amen to that.

Honestly, from reading this forum regularly I often wonder how some folks even get out of bed each morning. I can only assume that people here exaggerate their crushing loads of guilt and inadequacy.

Why beat yourself up about something that's supposed to be enjoyable? Concentrate instead on fully experiencing the joy that comes from the things you can do (e.g. making music on the piano). Let go of the fact that you imagine someone, somewhere is practicing harder or playing more difficult pieces or passing more exams than you are. That's totally self-inflicted pain, nothing to do with reality.

As the great Iris Dement sings it...



--from The Way I Should

Ok we get it...can I take that back now haha

I actually sympathize with the OP. As an adult beginner, I did not take up piano to play pieces like "Lavender's Blue" and "Going Home." I took up the piano to play (eventually) Beethoven Sonatas and Bach Fugues. If the OP is anything like me then I doubt the issue is so much that they are comparing themselves to other people, rather it is probably more an issue of the OP seeing the goal, lamenting at how bloody far away it is, and then looking back at all the poor choices they made which potentially may have slowed the learning process.

As per my first point of "lamenting at the distance of the goal," I would offer this advice: try and ignore the goal itself and just focus on what you need to do to reach it and just know that as you progress the pieces you learn will become more satisfying.

As per my latter point of "looking back on all the poor choices," I would say that this seemingly self-defeating process is actually quite a necessary step in ones progress. If you don't notice the mistakes you have made then you are far more likely to repeat them in the future - further inhibiting your progress. A certain amount of dwelling of your own faults (and the inevitable displeasure that comes from doing this) is required to learn from them. The key, however, is to notice these faults, find a way to correct them and then move on. The biggest predictor of success really does come from knowing how to cope with defeats.

Here is a quote from the famous pianist John Browning which I always found rather amusing since it completely contradicts the whole "focus on experiencing the joy that comes from the things you can do" mentality.

"First of all, every artist gets angry in practicing. He gets angry at the music, or he gets angry with himself for his own stupidity. So there are times that you hit the keyboard, and there are times you swear four-letter language. It's hard work. It's like dish-washing. It isn't fun."

Yea you guys have it misconstrued. I wasn't trying to compare myself to anybody and I do find much joy out of playing the piano so whoever assumed that is incorrect, also I was merely just sharing my thoughts over a web forum about how I have been feeling lately on my goals and practice time. That is all...

To add to that PPP., "doing the washing up is an investment in the future" I heard a friend say.

Brilliant!

Thanks, I sincerely accept the apology! (and I respect anyone who offers one, especially in public!)

Good post, PPP. I think it's natural for some of us to get "burned out" with a constant goal of - "I want to play piece X by time Y." Lately, I've removed all of my "goals" in 2012 and for the past couple of months, I've gone back to "playing for pleasure." When the time is right, I will have a goal again. ...in fact I've chosen my next "big piece" already.

What piece is that, Cebukid? I'm curious!

Griegs piano concerto, but sight transposed to F# minor.

I was feeling this way a while back. My ultimate goal is to move from the piano to the organ. I have played the organ a little bit, from lead sheets. I need to move my piano proficiency up a few notches and my sight reading up a lot. I took many lessons when I was younger, and now in my mid 20's i am taking it back up after a 7 year hiatus. I feel like I am not progressing. I don't have money right now for a piano teacher so it is going through the lessons as I can. I did speak with my mentor for the organ and she had a great suggestion, one which I think is great, it helps when you don't see any progress. Start video taping yourself once a week playing a piece or two. Then after 3 weeks watch the first on and the 2nd, and see how you progressed. It is like loosing weight, you don't see it because you look at yourself everyday (you hear youself practice everyday) but in a month or 2 when you look at a picture (listen to your playing) you see the big progress. just a suggestion from me.

I get little pleasure from playing the piano at the standard I can play. I haven't invested all these hours of practice so that I can do that. I invested all those hours so that I can, one day, play demanding works by Liszt and Beethoven with competence and a measure of flair.

When I look at how far away that goal remains, and how many hours of my life I have already burned away, it does give me cause for concern. That I might _never_ get where I want to be, despite all the sweat, frustration, and anger, sometimes causes me to despair.

It's all very well quoting all this 'it's not the destination, it's the journey' stuff, but some of us are in it because of the destination, not the journey. And often the destination seems to be unreachably distant.

kevinb,

I can see how that would be a awfully frustrating experience. Sorry to appear unsympathetic as I do not doubt the feelings you're expressing are genuinely distressing.

I do believe being consumed with "unreachably distant" goals can become ones default outlook and lead to continual unhappiness. It is possible to be steadfastly progressing toward a distant goal while still gaining some measure of satisfaction from progress along the way.

Enjoying the journey does not mean abandoning the goal, it means choosing to focus on how far you've come and trusting your plan to take care of the how far you have to go part.

Kevin have you tried doing goal work? What I mean is setting a clear cut plan for your goals (attainable, reachable goals) I haven't been learning Piano long enough to give a really good example (maybe someone can help out here) but I'll give you my mini goal.

I want to learn Moonlight Sonata 1st Movement.

So my goal plan looks like:

• Get a keyboard or piano.
• Learn basic piano skills (primer level)
• Polish primer skills, advance to level 1.
• Polish level 1 sills, advance to level 2.
• Polish level 2 skills, learn level 3.
• Pick Moonlight Sonata as main level 3 piece, learn and polish.
• Polish level 3 skills, advance to level 4.
• Pick Moonlight Sonata as main piece. Learn and polish!

I realize this may not look like much but I'm actually doing this list (I'm in primer level right now.) This completely removes any timeframe and allows me to enjoy learning while still working towarsds my goals (I'm very goal oriented.) Setting out your goals in realistic terms really helps. For larger goals you would set your larger goal, then break it up into mini-goals, the mini-goals beings the stepping stones to achieving that larger goal. It also really helps one to see what progress they have made.

Just a suggestion! Good luck.

Well, naturally I do have some milestones on the way to my main goal. But I won't be satisfied until I get where I want to be, milestones or not.

But, really, this isn't about me. I was just responding to Brent H's comment about needing to enjoy the journey, by pointing out that some of us are in it for the destination, not the journey.

That's just to say that people are all different. I'm a strongly goal-focussed person, which has the advantage that I'm prepared to expend huge amounts of effort, and tolerate a large amount of anger and frustration, to get where I want to be. The disadvantage is that I am perpetually dissatisifed. But what would life be if we were all the same?

LOL we would all be bored!

I like to have my cake and eat it too so I'm going for the journey and the destination!

I think i am in it for the journey, the destination, the stops on the way for cake. A few detours for sightseeing. And some distractions for added curiosity.

Just another thought for you...if a child was just learning to read or learn a sport he really loved would you tell them it is not in their best interest? haha Got it yet?

Yes I do. Because as of right now, despite owning a piano and trying to teach myself for a few years, I'd still considering myself a beginner. A beginner with some knowledge that I understand, but am unable to yet put to good use. The worst part is, I could easily sink 4/5 hours a day into just practising, but without a teacher I feel like I'm just hitting keys.

So yeah, I think I just need to get myself a teacher!

This reminds me of one night of practice where I was really struggling, and I threatened to take an axe to the piano. I was really shouting at it. (I'm still really embarrassed when I see my neighbors because I think they may have heard me!) Luckily, this doesn't happen often.