If I want to buy a piano located in Canada and have it sent to my home in the states, what is involved? Paperwork for border? Duties? Do I pay the whopping Canadian taxes if it is destined for US? Has anyone done this?

I don't know the answer, but this reminds me of when my great Uncle Harry tried bringing a truckload of goods from Canada to the U.S. almost 90 years ago. The contents consisted entirely of whiskey. It was during the U.S.'s Prohibition. He wound up in jail. Hopefully fate will be kinder to you.

I don't know all the policies and issues involved either, but there will be big complications if the piano has real ivory keys... something you might want to consider.

I've sure some of the dealers here have experience with this kind of thing.

Rick

I don't know the whole answer, but I know a bit about the sales tax.

If it's a private sale there will be no GST (federal Goods and Services Tax). Hopefully that is the case because it will be far simpler. The seller will know if GST applies or not.

If it's not a private sale, 5% GST will be charged at POS, but you can get it refunded. Some provinces also have an additional PST (Provincial Sales Tax) that varies from province to province. Additionally, some provinces combine GST with PST and call it HST, (Harmonized Sales Tax). Check the following link to find out more and how you can get your refund.

http://www.cra-arc.gc.ca/visitors/


As you can see, it's a real mish mash! Several years ago the federal government tried to get the country onto HTS, but some provinces refused. Alberta has only GST.

Interestingly, the Alberta government refuses to pay or collect GST on behalf of the federal government! Unfortunately, businesses in Alberta don't have that option.

You can see that out here in the wild west we don't always see eye to eye with the feds HA!

As far as duty, Canada and the USA have a free trade agreement that reduces or eliminates duty and import taxes in some cases. You will need to check with your tax department about that. Someone else on here may be able to advise. PM Norbert.

Good luck!

Ya, you can figure on throwing away the ivory, even if that mammoth died a hundred years ago or so. I've heard of some removing them (the ivory, not the mammoth) and bringing them home in a suitcase! Of course I would never never never ever recommend that, you can't play your piano in jail!

If you have the proper permits and the piano is older than 50 years. Ivory keys on the piano can be shipped.

Re ivory--there's a date that the US won't let new ivory products into the country, keytops included. Before that date, no problem. It's just a simple matter of having the date of manufacture of your piano (i.e. serial number and corresponding year). In 1968 Congress passed the Marine Mammals Protection Act, and walrus ivory, sperm whale teeth, etc., were prohibited. I think elephant ivory fell under this ruling as well. Check it out on Google before buying your piano. Dick

You still need the Cities permits no mater how old the piano is.
Without it your piano can be confiscated.

CITES permits will only be required if the keys are covered with real ivory.If the keytops are plastic you don't have to worry about that.

There is no doubt you would be better off directing your questions to someone who really KNOWS the answer: international shippers/brokers and the US Customs and Immigration office.

Rod and Jurgen,

I have shipped many pianos to Canada and I have always replaced keytops necause of the "ivory thing". How complicated is a Cities permit? I did not know this existed.

The correct spelling is "CITES", an acronym for "Convention (on) International Trade (in) Endangered Species" and the relevant agency is the US Fish and Wildlife Service. They have a whole bunch of FAQ's on their web page. The two things you'll need are forms to fill out and documentation supporting your claim that the ivory on that piano is from before some certain pre-treaty date.

Here's what can happen if one tries to "finesse" the issue...

METRO ATLANTA PIANO COMPANY AND CEO SENTENCED FOR SMUGGL...ING

Obtaining CITES permit can be done if the age qualifies the instrument, but it is involved. I know a few people who have done it. There have been at least two articles in the PTG Journal recently which have dealt with this topic.

The only pianos I have brought into Canada with ivory have been Steinways. They are the easiest to import due to the availability of the needed documentation from Steinway on the origin and type of ivory. They charge for the letter that states the info they have on a particular piano.

Waiting for the permits takes time and is a bit of work. Considering ivory costs around $4,500.00 to have installed it's worth the work in my opinion.

I have no experience with other makes.

Of course; this is because the Goods and Services Tax is a federal tax while the Provincial Sales Tax is a provincial taxation system. The provincial Alberta government is not in control of the GST, and has never had a provincial sales tax system.

Some provinces have joined the two in what is called the Harmonized Sales Tax.

Yup, that's kinda what I said, you just used fewer words.

There is also documentation needed to comply with the Lacy act, the focus of which is to regulate the importation of threatened species of wood.

I use Atlantic Customs Brokers http://www.atlanticchb.com/.

About 8 years ago, I bought a Yamaha gray market piano in Canada from a private party. (I didn't know it was gray market at the time, and, in fact, didn't know there was such a thing.) In any case, I brought it cross border on a trailer myself. The border people had no concerns about the piano at all.

I wouldn't count on that the border people not being concerned. During my last crossing between Canada and the US I learned about the "transportation fee". If I, as a US citizen, take business promotional literature into Canada (say, piano brochures) and then bring some of that same literature back, I have to pay a $28 "transportation fee" to US Customs at the border. I'm feeling very anti-republican these days, but this does strike me as an unnecessary governmental burden!

And, of course, Canada will impose a tariff on that same literature when you bring it into Canada.

A tarrif on LITERATURE? Is this what we call free trade?