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#1828980 - 01/21/12 11:43 AM OK, I admit it, I made a mistake...
voxpops Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/20/07
Posts: 3042
Loc: Oregon
...when I sold my Kawai MP6.

Having been through a succession of stage DPs over the last few years, desperately seeking the best combination of action, sound and portability, and hoping for a truly immersive piano experience, I let the MP6 come and go. I was expecting something revelatory at NAMM this year, and... zilch.

Taken all round, the MP6 is a compromise. It's AP sounds are nice but not very special, lagging behind Roland and Nord in player/sound connection, and having a somewhat harsh, brittle quality. EPs are good, and arguably quite a bit better than Roland's current offerings. The tonewheel organs will not put Nord out of business, and the other sounds are good to meh. Weight is above my comfort zone, but below my 50lbs cutoff. Outputting mono does not do the MP6's sounds any favors. If that was it, I wouldn't be posting this, but it's not. That RH action is a great piece of engineering! I am sick of playing seriously suboptimal actions. I feel I can now forgive a multitude of other sins, as long as I can play with expression and dynamics, and produce sound that doesn't make me wince. I've stopped expecting DP manufacturers to produce an all-round grand piano experience in a <50lbs package.

At first glance, when compared to the Nord Piano, the MP falls short. The Nord is lighter, looks smarter longer (the MP scratches very easily), and has a wonderful variety of piano samples. It plays better in mono, has a slightly better player/sound connection, and doesn't sound harsh. But the action and dynamics are just not as good. To me, the Fatar action feels fine when you first sit down to play, but when pushed, reveals its limitations much more readily than the RH action.

So I'm probably going to repurchase either the MP6 or the Nord. I'm leaning towards the MP simply because of that action, but I am, of course, beguiled by the Nord's library of sounds. I didn't "love" either board when I had them, but then there have been very few boards over the years that I've bonded with. Oh, decisions.
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#1828984 - 01/21/12 11:46 AM Re: OK, I admit it, I made a mistake... [Re: voxpops]
gvfarns Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/16/07
Posts: 3483
Loc: Pennsylvania
That's a sad story. Seller's remorse is almost as bad as buyer's remorse. Good luck!

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#1828985 - 01/21/12 11:47 AM Re: OK, I admit it, I made a mistake... [Re: voxpops]
Kawai James Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 9018
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#1828987 - 01/21/12 11:53 AM Re: OK, I admit it, I made a mistake... [Re: voxpops]
Brent H Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/06/11
Posts: 843
Do you normally play through some sort of PA arrangement? And with other players in the mix? If so, I'd think it's going to sound so-so a lot of nights anyway and seldom are you going to get every last subtlety of the sound.

So in that case, go with the best action and don't worry about woulda, coulda, shoulda sound 10% better with a different DP. On the other hand if you're playing solo through a great sound system it's a dilemma...
_________________________
Current Life+Music Philosophy: Less Thinking, More Foot Tapping

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#1828994 - 01/21/12 12:02 PM Re: OK, I admit it, I made a mistake... [Re: Brent H]
voxpops Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/20/07
Posts: 3042
Loc: Oregon
Originally Posted By: Brent H
Do you normally play through some sort of PA arrangement? And with other players in the mix? If so, I'd think it's going to sound so-so a lot of nights anyway and seldom are you going to get every last subtlety of the sound.

So in that case, go with the best action and don't worry about woulda, coulda, shoulda sound 10% better with a different DP. On the other hand if you're playing solo through a great sound system it's a dilemma...

Yes, I normally play with a five-piece band, and we do have a nice sound system that the piano is fed into. There are quite a few subtle moments when it's just piano and vocals, but I take your point about things getting lost in the overall mix. I never did get around to gigging with the MP6 - just used it for rehearsals - but the band had only good things to say about the piano/EP sound.
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#1828998 - 01/21/12 12:05 PM Re: OK, I admit it, I made a mistake... [Re: Kawai James]
voxpops Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/20/07
Posts: 3042
Loc: Oregon
Originally Posted By: Kawai James


There's another one to add to our repertoire! Thanks, James. wink
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#1829002 - 01/21/12 12:11 PM Re: OK, I admit it, I made a mistake... [Re: voxpops]
anotherscott Online   content
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/20/10
Posts: 3182
I've also been going back and forth over the months, balancing features vs. sound vs. feel. I've often been gigging with an older Casio (PX-310), just because I like its action better than anything else that doesn't at least approach 40 lbs, and I'm thinking that one good possibility could be to mate it with a Nord Stage 2 compact, using the Nord's board for organ/synth and letting the Casio trigger its piano... this would be a very lightweight way to get a sound and an action that I'd really enjoy. (I like the Yamaha MOX piano sound too... but I prefer the Nord, and the Nord also gives me the clonewheel functionality.)

If you love the MP6 action but prefer the Nord's sounds, you could similarly get both... it wouldn't have to be a Stage, it could be the far less expensive (and even lighter) Electro 3 (61 keys), which could possibly replace your Numa organ. The limitation is that you can't play the E3's piano and organ at the same time. But you can play its piano from the Kawai and its organ from its own board, and on those times where you indeed do need to have both sounds at the same time, you still have a perfectly serviceable additional piano sound in the Kawai to fall back on. (Heck, with a little MIDI shenanigans, you should be able to set it up so that you could even simultaneously play the Nord's piano from the Kawai action while playing the Kawai's organ from the Nord's action, if you wanted to!)

Anyway, the point is, if you can't fully bond with one board, maybe the right combination of two can do it for you.

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#1829012 - 01/21/12 12:32 PM Re: OK, I admit it, I made a mistake... [Re: anotherscott]
voxpops Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/20/07
Posts: 3042
Loc: Oregon
Originally Posted By: anotherscott

If you love the MP6 action but prefer the Nord's sounds, you could similarly get both... it wouldn't have to be a Stage, it could be the far less expensive (and even lighter) Electro 3 (61 keys), which could possibly replace your Numa organ.

That's really not a bad idea. I used to have the NE3 and thought about controlling the pianos from a weighted board, but didn't want to have to switch back and forth between piano and organ for every song that utilized both. So, yes, the Stage Compact solves that problem ...at a price. But given that the MP6 isn't bad in the AP/EP department, the NE3 might suffice for just those numbers which demand something a little more than the MP6 can produce on its own.

I think that if I get the MP6 again, I'll keep a lookout for a used Nord
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#1829064 - 01/21/12 01:44 PM Re: OK, I admit it, I made a mistake... [Re: voxpops]
EssBrace Online   content
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/01/09
Posts: 2393
Loc: Suffolk, United Kingdom
I assume you have seller's remorse because the FP-7F is not hitting the spot for you? Explain why, if this is so Vox. Being an ex-FP-7F owner, I'm interested in your thoughts.

Steve
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Yamaha CP1

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#1829075 - 01/21/12 02:02 PM Re: OK, I admit it, I made a mistake... [Re: voxpops]
voxpops Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/20/07
Posts: 3042
Loc: Oregon
Steve, the FP-7F is fine for me as a home piano, and I have no intention of getting rid of it. However, it is too bulky for me to move on a regular basis, and I don't rate the EP sounds highly. I've said before that I don't think it's perfect with its slightly dull SN tonal quality, but it plays beautifully for me.

I thought about staying in the Roland family with the RD-300NX for gigging, but it's unnecessarily long, and I don't want a sluggish action (although I have not had a chance to test it for myself). For really lightweight work I still have the FP-4 as well as the Numa Piano, although I actually find the FP's action more consistent and easier to control than the Numa's, and I don't think the RD would add much to the equation.
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#1829079 - 01/21/12 02:13 PM Re: OK, I admit it, I made a mistake... [Re: voxpops]
PianoZac Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/22/10
Posts: 1424
Both boards are great. I've said over and over, if I didn't have the NP1, I'd get the MP6. Let me know which way you go. It's kind of nice to have owned both, so no real surprises.
_________________________
Yamaha AvantGrand N1
Nord Piano 2


"Be who you are and say how you feel. Because those who mind don't matter, and those who matter don't mind." - Dr. Seuss

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#1829084 - 01/21/12 02:21 PM Re: OK, I admit it, I made a mistake... [Re: PianoZac]
voxpops Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/20/07
Posts: 3042
Loc: Oregon
Originally Posted By: ZacharyForbes
Both boards are great. I've said over and over, if I didn't have the NP1, I'd get the MP6. Let me know which way you go. It's kind of nice to have owned both, so no real surprises.

I certainly will, Zach. For once, it will be nice to know what I'm getting myself into in advance. Since there's nowhere around here to try anything but the mass-market boards, I'm usually flying blind on these purchases.
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http://www.amazon.com/author/richardspanswick

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#1829087 - 01/21/12 02:23 PM Re: OK, I admit it, I made a mistake... [Re: voxpops]
EssBrace Online   content
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/01/09
Posts: 2393
Loc: Suffolk, United Kingdom
Ok, I see. I agree the RDs are too long - thanks to Roland's stubborn insistence on the crazy placement of the pitch bend/mod control. I can also see that the FP-7F is too heavy to slog around with.

I agree with Zachary - either NP or MP are the choice boards for quality/portability. I think the variety and character of the Nord shines through - it's a class act.
_________________________
Yamaha CP1

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#1829119 - 01/21/12 02:49 PM Re: OK, I admit it, I made a mistake... [Re: voxpops]
voxpops Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/20/07
Posts: 3042
Loc: Oregon
Steve, out of the NP and MP, which board do you find yourself gravitating to, and why?
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#1829125 - 01/21/12 02:55 PM Re: OK, I admit it, I made a mistake... [Re: voxpops]
PianoZac Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/22/10
Posts: 1424
Vox, I may be selling my NE3 61 w/ matching Nord Gig Bag. I'll keep you posted.

To sort of answer the question you asked Steve, I would say for the, the quality and variety of sounds, action/sound connection, the dynamic Nord Triple Pedal, the string and sympathetic resonance, the weight and portability with its short-for-88 key size, the commitment from Nord on the system and software updates and overall product support, oh and did I mention it's red so it stands out nicely on stage! smile just a short list of reasons to love the Nord Piano for a gigging piano player.


Edited by ZacharyForbes (01/21/12 03:26 PM)
_________________________
Yamaha AvantGrand N1
Nord Piano 2


"Be who you are and say how you feel. Because those who mind don't matter, and those who matter don't mind." - Dr. Seuss

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#1829128 - 01/21/12 02:57 PM Re: OK, I admit it, I made a mistake... [Re: PianoZac]
voxpops Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/20/07
Posts: 3042
Loc: Oregon
Thanks, Zach. Not sure I can fund both at the moment, but we'll see!
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Occasional author and inveterate ivory tickler:
http://www.amazon.com/author/richardspanswick

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#1829135 - 01/21/12 03:10 PM Re: OK, I admit it, I made a mistake... [Re: voxpops]
CyberGene Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/04/07
Posts: 716
Loc: Sofia, Bulgaria
As I said in another thread, I played a Kawai MP6 yesterday and quite liked it. And you can envy me guys because the owner of the Kawai shop here in Sofia said many people went to buy Kawai digital pianos by reading my posts on a bulgarian music forum and mentioned my name to him, so he was extremely happy with that and offered me some dirty cheap discounts specially to me on whatever gear I like, including MP6! laugh I will not quote his price but it is nothing short of stunning! grin
_________________________
http://www.myspace.com/evgenykumanov
Current DP: Kawai ES7
Previous DP-s: Kawai MP6, Kawai CA63, Roland RD-700SX, Roland FP-5, Yamaha P90, Korg SP-200, Casio CDP-100

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#1829138 - 01/21/12 03:12 PM Re: OK, I admit it, I made a mistake... [Re: voxpops]
EssBrace Online   content
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/01/09
Posts: 2393
Loc: Suffolk, United Kingdom
Originally Posted By: voxpops
Steve, out of the NP and MP, which board do you find yourself gravitating to, and why?


Gosh, there's a question. For action the MP, for sounds the NP88. But that is something of an over-simplification. On some level I can enjoy the Nord's action and it connects uncannily well with the onboard sounds. By the same token I like the MP's sounds too although there is a very slightly abrasive or unrefined quality to them - I think we both agree on that.

If Nord would release a rack version of the the NP88 I would be a very happy chap playing it with the Kawai's keys. If someone told me I'd got to get rid of one of them I would find that an agonising decision because there is no clear-cut winner out of the two of them. Neither is perfect but both have some very enjoyable characteristics and features.

If I really had a gun to my head and had to choose I'd probably keep the Kawai simply because the action is so nice. But that's what my mood this evening tells me. Ask me tomorrow and you'd probably get a different answer!

Cheers,

Steve
_________________________
Yamaha CP1

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#1829147 - 01/21/12 03:22 PM Re: OK, I admit it, I made a mistake... [Re: EssBrace]
voxpops Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/20/07
Posts: 3042
Loc: Oregon
I know the feeling, Steve! Thanks for your thoughts.
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http://www.amazon.com/author/richardspanswick

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#1829152 - 01/21/12 03:29 PM Re: OK, I admit it, I made a mistake... [Re: gvfarns]
voxpops Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/20/07
Posts: 3042
Loc: Oregon
Originally Posted By: gvfarns
That's a sad story. Seller's remorse is almost as bad as buyer's remorse. Good luck!

You know, I felt that remorse strongly enough to contact the people who purchased the MP6 from me, and asked them if they would consider selling it back to me. They like it way too much...

Thanks for the good wishes!
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http://www.amazon.com/author/richardspanswick

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#1829154 - 01/21/12 03:31 PM Re: OK, I admit it, I made a mistake... [Re: voxpops]
PianoZac Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/22/10
Posts: 1424
To sort of answer the question you asked Steve, I would say for the, the quality and variety of sounds, action/sound connection, the dynamic Nord Triple Pedal, the string and sympathetic resonance, the weight and portability with its short-for-88 key size, the commitment from Nord on the system and software updates and overall product support, oh and did I mention it's red so it stands out nicely on stage! just a short list of reasons to love the Nord Piano for a gigging piano player.
_________________________
Yamaha AvantGrand N1
Nord Piano 2


"Be who you are and say how you feel. Because those who mind don't matter, and those who matter don't mind." - Dr. Seuss

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#1829293 - 01/21/12 08:19 PM Re: OK, I admit it, I made a mistake... [Re: voxpops]
Kawai James Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 9018
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Originally Posted By: voxpops
Originally Posted By: Kawai James


There's another one to add to our repertoire! Thanks, James. wink


Every band should play at least two Curtis Mayfield/Impressions numbers, in my opinion...

James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#1834976 - 01/30/12 01:03 PM Re: OK, I admit it, I made a mistake... [Re: voxpops]
voxpops Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/20/07
Posts: 3042
Loc: Oregon
New MP6 purchased this morning. Many more dollars than what I sold the last one for - that should teach me... maybe.

I was going round and round in circles. I could have bought a used Yamaha CP5 (and even a CP1) for not too much more, but I just knew I'd be inclined to leave it at home more often than not due to the weight. Very tempting though.

I could have repurchased a NP88 and hoped that Nord would release some larger EP samples soon, but I'd still have to live with that compromised action.

The Korg SV-1 reared its (quite pretty) red head again, but there are just too many reported bugs, and I've never been convinced by the APs.

The RD-300NX would have been a relatively known quantity in terms of sounds, but I really don't want a sluggish action

So back to the MP6 it is. It will get used for gigs where I'm not trying to cut the weight down to the absolute minimum - that's what the Numa Piano is for. I will just have to be more appreciative of the MP's many good points, and accept its shortcomings. But, for a board that offers generally good sounds, is not grotesquely heavy, and has a very nice action along with a lot of controller options, it's not a huge price to pay.
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#1834984 - 01/30/12 01:18 PM Re: OK, I admit it, I made a mistake... [Re: voxpops]
Melodialworks Music Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/19/05
Posts: 1309
Loc: Canada
Originally Posted By: voxpops
New MP6 purchased this morning. Many more dollars than what I sold the last one for - that should teach me... maybe.


Been there, done that. Not MP6, specifically. Emphasis on the . . . maybe.

Lawrence
_________________________
Melodialworks Music
Yamaha C3X
Yamaha CP300 + Omnisphere
Yamaha NU1 + Production Grand

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#1835046 - 01/30/12 02:42 PM Re: OK, I admit it, I made a mistake... [Re: voxpops]
PianoZac Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/22/10
Posts: 1424
Congrats Vox. The MP6 is an excellent board, especially for the money. Best action below $2000, great sounds, etc. The second choice to my NP88 is the MP6. If I had extra cash, I'd pick up a B market MP6 for some gigs and at home fun use.
_________________________
Yamaha AvantGrand N1
Nord Piano 2


"Be who you are and say how you feel. Because those who mind don't matter, and those who matter don't mind." - Dr. Seuss

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#1835051 - 01/30/12 02:48 PM Re: OK, I admit it, I made a mistake... [Re: voxpops]
anotherscott Online   content
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/20/10
Posts: 3182
Originally Posted By: voxpops
So back to the MP6 it is. It will get used for gigs where I'm not trying to cut the weight down to the absolute minimum - that's what the Numa Piano is for.

I know you give the MP6 the edge for action and, obviously, overall functionality, but I was wondering how you compare just MP6's piano and EP sounds to both the original and revised Numa sound set...?

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#1835063 - 01/30/12 03:03 PM Re: OK, I admit it, I made a mistake... [Re: anotherscott]
voxpops Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/20/07
Posts: 3042
Loc: Oregon
Originally Posted By: anotherscott
I know you give the MP6 the edge for action and, obviously, overall functionality, but I was wondering how you compare just MP6's piano and EP sounds to both the original and revised Numa sound set...?

Well, I wish I could regain access to the original Numa soundset, then I could give you a more definitive answer. I've forgotten most of the characteristics of the original Numa APs, although I seem to remember them as being a little less broad and open-sounding than the updated ones. This, in some senses, made them more useful and less problematic for numbers that needed a tighter, more controlled sound.

However, the updated APs and EPs definitely rival those of the MP6. I'd have to say that the Numa's EPs seem to have a little more detail, and perhaps feel a little more organic - and maybe that's true of the APs, too, although the MP6 gives one an impression of a very well-regulated grand, whereas the Numa has a "looser" sound.

I was interested to read that Studiologic are claiming there is 1GB of samples in the Numa Piano. I suspect that that is after decompression, since the update pack size was around 120mb, but I may be wrong. If that is the actual sample memory in the the Numa, it's double that of the Nord Piano! There is something a little different, and maybe special about the Numa.
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http://www.amazon.com/author/richardspanswick

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#1835074 - 01/30/12 03:16 PM Re: OK, I admit it, I made a mistake... [Re: PianoZac]
voxpops Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/20/07
Posts: 3042
Loc: Oregon
Originally Posted By: ZacharyForbes
Congrats Vox. The MP6 is an excellent board, especially for the money. Best action below $2000, great sounds, etc. The second choice to my NP88 is the MP6. If I had extra cash, I'd pick up a B market MP6 for some gigs and at home fun use.

Thanks, Zach. Yes, although the MP6 will never quite be able to compete squarely with the Nord Piano for sound flexibility, it will be nice to have one gigging board where I'm not fighting the action!

I'll also try not to be as hasty with my decisions from now on. blush
_________________________
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http://www.amazon.com/author/richardspanswick

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#1835124 - 01/30/12 04:16 PM Re: OK, I admit it, I made a mistake... [Re: voxpops]
anotherscott Online   content
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/20/10
Posts: 3182
Originally Posted By: voxpops
[quote=anotherscott]II was interested to read that Studiologic are claiming there is 1GB of samples in the Numa Piano. I suspect that that is after decompression, since the update pack size was around 120mb

I doubt the update pack includes any new samples. That would require that the samples be kept in an expensive kind of re-writeable memory (a la Nord). I mean, I don't think they'd go to the expense unless they intended, from the start, to offer the ability to upgrade to new sounds (as Nord does), and if that were the case, I'd think they would make that a big marketing point, but they've never made any such claim. Also, the list of what the update does does not mention any new samples. I think they updates are to various software/processing parameters... which would still be able to generate a notably different sound from the same underlying samples.

http://www.studiologic-music.com/numa-piano-update10.html

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#1835128 - 01/30/12 04:18 PM Re: OK, I admit it, I made a mistake... [Re: voxpops]
PianoZac Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/22/10
Posts: 1424
Vox, are the samples from Studiologic downloaded the way Nords are? Also, do they tell you brand of piano, and how large the samples are? I'm guessing part of what makes the Nords as expensive as they are, outside of the way in which they're constructed and the manufacturing in lower numbers, is the kind of RAM they use, and the royalties they must surely pay to the various brand names of pianos and instruments they use and quote so openly.
_________________________
Yamaha AvantGrand N1
Nord Piano 2


"Be who you are and say how you feel. Because those who mind don't matter, and those who matter don't mind." - Dr. Seuss

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Baldwin BJ124 and other New Pianos
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08/22/14 07:30 PM
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08/22/14 06:24 PM
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