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#1828980 - 01/21/12 11:43 AM OK, I admit it, I made a mistake...
voxpops Online   content
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/20/07
Posts: 2920
Loc: Oregon
...when I sold my Kawai MP6.

Having been through a succession of stage DPs over the last few years, desperately seeking the best combination of action, sound and portability, and hoping for a truly immersive piano experience, I let the MP6 come and go. I was expecting something revelatory at NAMM this year, and... zilch.

Taken all round, the MP6 is a compromise. It's AP sounds are nice but not very special, lagging behind Roland and Nord in player/sound connection, and having a somewhat harsh, brittle quality. EPs are good, and arguably quite a bit better than Roland's current offerings. The tonewheel organs will not put Nord out of business, and the other sounds are good to meh. Weight is above my comfort zone, but below my 50lbs cutoff. Outputting mono does not do the MP6's sounds any favors. If that was it, I wouldn't be posting this, but it's not. That RH action is a great piece of engineering! I am sick of playing seriously suboptimal actions. I feel I can now forgive a multitude of other sins, as long as I can play with expression and dynamics, and produce sound that doesn't make me wince. I've stopped expecting DP manufacturers to produce an all-round grand piano experience in a <50lbs package.

At first glance, when compared to the Nord Piano, the MP falls short. The Nord is lighter, looks smarter longer (the MP scratches very easily), and has a wonderful variety of piano samples. It plays better in mono, has a slightly better player/sound connection, and doesn't sound harsh. But the action and dynamics are just not as good. To me, the Fatar action feels fine when you first sit down to play, but when pushed, reveals its limitations much more readily than the RH action.

So I'm probably going to repurchase either the MP6 or the Nord. I'm leaning towards the MP simply because of that action, but I am, of course, beguiled by the Nord's library of sounds. I didn't "love" either board when I had them, but then there have been very few boards over the years that I've bonded with. Oh, decisions.

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#1828984 - 01/21/12 11:46 AM Re: OK, I admit it, I made a mistake... [Re: voxpops]
gvfarns Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/16/07
Posts: 3474
Loc: Pennsylvania
That's a sad story. Seller's remorse is almost as bad as buyer's remorse. Good luck!

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#1828985 - 01/21/12 11:47 AM Re: OK, I admit it, I made a mistake... [Re: voxpops]
Kawai James Online   content
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 8402
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#1828987 - 01/21/12 11:53 AM Re: OK, I admit it, I made a mistake... [Re: voxpops]
Brent H Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/06/11
Posts: 843
Do you normally play through some sort of PA arrangement? And with other players in the mix? If so, I'd think it's going to sound so-so a lot of nights anyway and seldom are you going to get every last subtlety of the sound.

So in that case, go with the best action and don't worry about woulda, coulda, shoulda sound 10% better with a different DP. On the other hand if you're playing solo through a great sound system it's a dilemma...
_________________________
Current Life+Music Philosophy: Less Thinking, More Foot Tapping

Ars Longa, Vita Brevis

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#1828994 - 01/21/12 12:02 PM Re: OK, I admit it, I made a mistake... [Re: Brent H]
voxpops Online   content
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/20/07
Posts: 2920
Loc: Oregon
Originally Posted By: Brent H
Do you normally play through some sort of PA arrangement? And with other players in the mix? If so, I'd think it's going to sound so-so a lot of nights anyway and seldom are you going to get every last subtlety of the sound.

So in that case, go with the best action and don't worry about woulda, coulda, shoulda sound 10% better with a different DP. On the other hand if you're playing solo through a great sound system it's a dilemma...

Yes, I normally play with a five-piece band, and we do have a nice sound system that the piano is fed into. There are quite a few subtle moments when it's just piano and vocals, but I take your point about things getting lost in the overall mix. I never did get around to gigging with the MP6 - just used it for rehearsals - but the band had only good things to say about the piano/EP sound.

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#1828998 - 01/21/12 12:05 PM Re: OK, I admit it, I made a mistake... [Re: Kawai James]
voxpops Online   content
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/20/07
Posts: 2920
Loc: Oregon
Originally Posted By: Kawai James


There's another one to add to our repertoire! Thanks, James. wink

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#1829002 - 01/21/12 12:11 PM Re: OK, I admit it, I made a mistake... [Re: voxpops]
anotherscott Online   content
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/20/10
Posts: 3076
I've also been going back and forth over the months, balancing features vs. sound vs. feel. I've often been gigging with an older Casio (PX-310), just because I like its action better than anything else that doesn't at least approach 40 lbs, and I'm thinking that one good possibility could be to mate it with a Nord Stage 2 compact, using the Nord's board for organ/synth and letting the Casio trigger its piano... this would be a very lightweight way to get a sound and an action that I'd really enjoy. (I like the Yamaha MOX piano sound too... but I prefer the Nord, and the Nord also gives me the clonewheel functionality.)

If you love the MP6 action but prefer the Nord's sounds, you could similarly get both... it wouldn't have to be a Stage, it could be the far less expensive (and even lighter) Electro 3 (61 keys), which could possibly replace your Numa organ. The limitation is that you can't play the E3's piano and organ at the same time. But you can play its piano from the Kawai and its organ from its own board, and on those times where you indeed do need to have both sounds at the same time, you still have a perfectly serviceable additional piano sound in the Kawai to fall back on. (Heck, with a little MIDI shenanigans, you should be able to set it up so that you could even simultaneously play the Nord's piano from the Kawai action while playing the Kawai's organ from the Nord's action, if you wanted to!)

Anyway, the point is, if you can't fully bond with one board, maybe the right combination of two can do it for you.

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#1829012 - 01/21/12 12:32 PM Re: OK, I admit it, I made a mistake... [Re: anotherscott]
voxpops Online   content
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/20/07
Posts: 2920
Loc: Oregon
Originally Posted By: anotherscott

If you love the MP6 action but prefer the Nord's sounds, you could similarly get both... it wouldn't have to be a Stage, it could be the far less expensive (and even lighter) Electro 3 (61 keys), which could possibly replace your Numa organ.

That's really not a bad idea. I used to have the NE3 and thought about controlling the pianos from a weighted board, but didn't want to have to switch back and forth between piano and organ for every song that utilized both. So, yes, the Stage Compact solves that problem ...at a price. But given that the MP6 isn't bad in the AP/EP department, the NE3 might suffice for just those numbers which demand something a little more than the MP6 can produce on its own.

I think that if I get the MP6 again, I'll keep a lookout for a used Nord

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#1829064 - 01/21/12 01:44 PM Re: OK, I admit it, I made a mistake... [Re: voxpops]
EssBrace Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/01/09
Posts: 2332
Loc: Suffolk, United Kingdom
I assume you have seller's remorse because the FP-7F is not hitting the spot for you? Explain why, if this is so Vox. Being an ex-FP-7F owner, I'm interested in your thoughts.

Steve
_________________________
Yamaha CP1

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#1829075 - 01/21/12 02:02 PM Re: OK, I admit it, I made a mistake... [Re: voxpops]
voxpops Online   content
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/20/07
Posts: 2920
Loc: Oregon
Steve, the FP-7F is fine for me as a home piano, and I have no intention of getting rid of it. However, it is too bulky for me to move on a regular basis, and I don't rate the EP sounds highly. I've said before that I don't think it's perfect with its slightly dull SN tonal quality, but it plays beautifully for me.

I thought about staying in the Roland family with the RD-300NX for gigging, but it's unnecessarily long, and I don't want a sluggish action (although I have not had a chance to test it for myself). For really lightweight work I still have the FP-4 as well as the Numa Piano, although I actually find the FP's action more consistent and easier to control than the Numa's, and I don't think the RD would add much to the equation.

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#1829079 - 01/21/12 02:13 PM Re: OK, I admit it, I made a mistake... [Re: voxpops]
PianoZac Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/22/10
Posts: 1421
Both boards are great. I've said over and over, if I didn't have the NP1, I'd get the MP6. Let me know which way you go. It's kind of nice to have owned both, so no real surprises.
_________________________
Kawai RX-2
Nord Piano 2


"Life is a lot like jazz...it's best when you improvise."

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#1829084 - 01/21/12 02:21 PM Re: OK, I admit it, I made a mistake... [Re: PianoZac]
voxpops Online   content
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/20/07
Posts: 2920
Loc: Oregon
Originally Posted By: ZacharyForbes
Both boards are great. I've said over and over, if I didn't have the NP1, I'd get the MP6. Let me know which way you go. It's kind of nice to have owned both, so no real surprises.

I certainly will, Zach. For once, it will be nice to know what I'm getting myself into in advance. Since there's nowhere around here to try anything but the mass-market boards, I'm usually flying blind on these purchases.

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#1829087 - 01/21/12 02:23 PM Re: OK, I admit it, I made a mistake... [Re: voxpops]
EssBrace Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/01/09
Posts: 2332
Loc: Suffolk, United Kingdom
Ok, I see. I agree the RDs are too long - thanks to Roland's stubborn insistence on the crazy placement of the pitch bend/mod control. I can also see that the FP-7F is too heavy to slog around with.

I agree with Zachary - either NP or MP are the choice boards for quality/portability. I think the variety and character of the Nord shines through - it's a class act.
_________________________
Yamaha CP1

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#1829119 - 01/21/12 02:49 PM Re: OK, I admit it, I made a mistake... [Re: voxpops]
voxpops Online   content
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/20/07
Posts: 2920
Loc: Oregon
Steve, out of the NP and MP, which board do you find yourself gravitating to, and why?

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#1829125 - 01/21/12 02:55 PM Re: OK, I admit it, I made a mistake... [Re: voxpops]
PianoZac Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/22/10
Posts: 1421
Vox, I may be selling my NE3 61 w/ matching Nord Gig Bag. I'll keep you posted.

To sort of answer the question you asked Steve, I would say for the, the quality and variety of sounds, action/sound connection, the dynamic Nord Triple Pedal, the string and sympathetic resonance, the weight and portability with its short-for-88 key size, the commitment from Nord on the system and software updates and overall product support, oh and did I mention it's red so it stands out nicely on stage! smile just a short list of reasons to love the Nord Piano for a gigging piano player.


Edited by ZacharyForbes (01/21/12 03:26 PM)
_________________________
Kawai RX-2
Nord Piano 2


"Life is a lot like jazz...it's best when you improvise."

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#1829128 - 01/21/12 02:57 PM Re: OK, I admit it, I made a mistake... [Re: PianoZac]
voxpops Online   content
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/20/07
Posts: 2920
Loc: Oregon
Thanks, Zach. Not sure I can fund both at the moment, but we'll see!

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#1829135 - 01/21/12 03:10 PM Re: OK, I admit it, I made a mistake... [Re: voxpops]
CyberGene Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/04/07
Posts: 702
Loc: Sofia, Bulgaria
As I said in another thread, I played a Kawai MP6 yesterday and quite liked it. And you can envy me guys because the owner of the Kawai shop here in Sofia said many people went to buy Kawai digital pianos by reading my posts on a bulgarian music forum and mentioned my name to him, so he was extremely happy with that and offered me some dirty cheap discounts specially to me on whatever gear I like, including MP6! laugh I will not quote his price but it is nothing short of stunning! grin
_________________________
http://www.myspace.com/evgenykumanov
Current DP: Kawai ES7
Previous DP-s: Kawai MP6, Kawai CA63, Roland RD-700SX, Roland FP-5, Yamaha P90, Korg SP-200, Casio CDP-100

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#1829138 - 01/21/12 03:12 PM Re: OK, I admit it, I made a mistake... [Re: voxpops]
EssBrace Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/01/09
Posts: 2332
Loc: Suffolk, United Kingdom
Originally Posted By: voxpops
Steve, out of the NP and MP, which board do you find yourself gravitating to, and why?


Gosh, there's a question. For action the MP, for sounds the NP88. But that is something of an over-simplification. On some level I can enjoy the Nord's action and it connects uncannily well with the onboard sounds. By the same token I like the MP's sounds too although there is a very slightly abrasive or unrefined quality to them - I think we both agree on that.

If Nord would release a rack version of the the NP88 I would be a very happy chap playing it with the Kawai's keys. If someone told me I'd got to get rid of one of them I would find that an agonising decision because there is no clear-cut winner out of the two of them. Neither is perfect but both have some very enjoyable characteristics and features.

If I really had a gun to my head and had to choose I'd probably keep the Kawai simply because the action is so nice. But that's what my mood this evening tells me. Ask me tomorrow and you'd probably get a different answer!

Cheers,

Steve
_________________________
Yamaha CP1

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#1829147 - 01/21/12 03:22 PM Re: OK, I admit it, I made a mistake... [Re: EssBrace]
voxpops Online   content
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/20/07
Posts: 2920
Loc: Oregon
I know the feeling, Steve! Thanks for your thoughts.

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#1829152 - 01/21/12 03:29 PM Re: OK, I admit it, I made a mistake... [Re: gvfarns]
voxpops Online   content
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/20/07
Posts: 2920
Loc: Oregon
Originally Posted By: gvfarns
That's a sad story. Seller's remorse is almost as bad as buyer's remorse. Good luck!

You know, I felt that remorse strongly enough to contact the people who purchased the MP6 from me, and asked them if they would consider selling it back to me. They like it way too much...

Thanks for the good wishes!

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#1829154 - 01/21/12 03:31 PM Re: OK, I admit it, I made a mistake... [Re: voxpops]
PianoZac Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/22/10
Posts: 1421
To sort of answer the question you asked Steve, I would say for the, the quality and variety of sounds, action/sound connection, the dynamic Nord Triple Pedal, the string and sympathetic resonance, the weight and portability with its short-for-88 key size, the commitment from Nord on the system and software updates and overall product support, oh and did I mention it's red so it stands out nicely on stage! just a short list of reasons to love the Nord Piano for a gigging piano player.
_________________________
Kawai RX-2
Nord Piano 2


"Life is a lot like jazz...it's best when you improvise."

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#1829293 - 01/21/12 08:19 PM Re: OK, I admit it, I made a mistake... [Re: voxpops]
Kawai James Online   content
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 8402
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Originally Posted By: voxpops
Originally Posted By: Kawai James


There's another one to add to our repertoire! Thanks, James. wink


Every band should play at least two Curtis Mayfield/Impressions numbers, in my opinion...

James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#1834976 - 01/30/12 01:03 PM Re: OK, I admit it, I made a mistake... [Re: voxpops]
voxpops Online   content
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/20/07
Posts: 2920
Loc: Oregon
New MP6 purchased this morning. Many more dollars than what I sold the last one for - that should teach me... maybe.

I was going round and round in circles. I could have bought a used Yamaha CP5 (and even a CP1) for not too much more, but I just knew I'd be inclined to leave it at home more often than not due to the weight. Very tempting though.

I could have repurchased a NP88 and hoped that Nord would release some larger EP samples soon, but I'd still have to live with that compromised action.

The Korg SV-1 reared its (quite pretty) red head again, but there are just too many reported bugs, and I've never been convinced by the APs.

The RD-300NX would have been a relatively known quantity in terms of sounds, but I really don't want a sluggish action

So back to the MP6 it is. It will get used for gigs where I'm not trying to cut the weight down to the absolute minimum - that's what the Numa Piano is for. I will just have to be more appreciative of the MP's many good points, and accept its shortcomings. But, for a board that offers generally good sounds, is not grotesquely heavy, and has a very nice action along with a lot of controller options, it's not a huge price to pay.

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#1834984 - 01/30/12 01:18 PM Re: OK, I admit it, I made a mistake... [Re: voxpops]
Melodialworks Music Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/19/05
Posts: 1309
Loc: Canada
Originally Posted By: voxpops
New MP6 purchased this morning. Many more dollars than what I sold the last one for - that should teach me... maybe.


Been there, done that. Not MP6, specifically. Emphasis on the . . . maybe.

Lawrence
_________________________
Melodialworks Music
Yamaha C3X
Yamaha CP300 + Omnisphere
Yamaha NU1 + Production Grand

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#1835046 - 01/30/12 02:42 PM Re: OK, I admit it, I made a mistake... [Re: voxpops]
PianoZac Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/22/10
Posts: 1421
Congrats Vox. The MP6 is an excellent board, especially for the money. Best action below $2000, great sounds, etc. The second choice to my NP88 is the MP6. If I had extra cash, I'd pick up a B market MP6 for some gigs and at home fun use.
_________________________
Kawai RX-2
Nord Piano 2


"Life is a lot like jazz...it's best when you improvise."

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#1835051 - 01/30/12 02:48 PM Re: OK, I admit it, I made a mistake... [Re: voxpops]
anotherscott Online   content
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/20/10
Posts: 3076
Originally Posted By: voxpops
So back to the MP6 it is. It will get used for gigs where I'm not trying to cut the weight down to the absolute minimum - that's what the Numa Piano is for.

I know you give the MP6 the edge for action and, obviously, overall functionality, but I was wondering how you compare just MP6's piano and EP sounds to both the original and revised Numa sound set...?

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#1835063 - 01/30/12 03:03 PM Re: OK, I admit it, I made a mistake... [Re: anotherscott]
voxpops Online   content
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/20/07
Posts: 2920
Loc: Oregon
Originally Posted By: anotherscott
I know you give the MP6 the edge for action and, obviously, overall functionality, but I was wondering how you compare just MP6's piano and EP sounds to both the original and revised Numa sound set...?

Well, I wish I could regain access to the original Numa soundset, then I could give you a more definitive answer. I've forgotten most of the characteristics of the original Numa APs, although I seem to remember them as being a little less broad and open-sounding than the updated ones. This, in some senses, made them more useful and less problematic for numbers that needed a tighter, more controlled sound.

However, the updated APs and EPs definitely rival those of the MP6. I'd have to say that the Numa's EPs seem to have a little more detail, and perhaps feel a little more organic - and maybe that's true of the APs, too, although the MP6 gives one an impression of a very well-regulated grand, whereas the Numa has a "looser" sound.

I was interested to read that Studiologic are claiming there is 1GB of samples in the Numa Piano. I suspect that that is after decompression, since the update pack size was around 120mb, but I may be wrong. If that is the actual sample memory in the the Numa, it's double that of the Nord Piano! There is something a little different, and maybe special about the Numa.

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#1835074 - 01/30/12 03:16 PM Re: OK, I admit it, I made a mistake... [Re: PianoZac]
voxpops Online   content
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/20/07
Posts: 2920
Loc: Oregon
Originally Posted By: ZacharyForbes
Congrats Vox. The MP6 is an excellent board, especially for the money. Best action below $2000, great sounds, etc. The second choice to my NP88 is the MP6. If I had extra cash, I'd pick up a B market MP6 for some gigs and at home fun use.

Thanks, Zach. Yes, although the MP6 will never quite be able to compete squarely with the Nord Piano for sound flexibility, it will be nice to have one gigging board where I'm not fighting the action!

I'll also try not to be as hasty with my decisions from now on. blush

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#1835124 - 01/30/12 04:16 PM Re: OK, I admit it, I made a mistake... [Re: voxpops]
anotherscott Online   content
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/20/10
Posts: 3076
Originally Posted By: voxpops
[quote=anotherscott]II was interested to read that Studiologic are claiming there is 1GB of samples in the Numa Piano. I suspect that that is after decompression, since the update pack size was around 120mb

I doubt the update pack includes any new samples. That would require that the samples be kept in an expensive kind of re-writeable memory (a la Nord). I mean, I don't think they'd go to the expense unless they intended, from the start, to offer the ability to upgrade to new sounds (as Nord does), and if that were the case, I'd think they would make that a big marketing point, but they've never made any such claim. Also, the list of what the update does does not mention any new samples. I think they updates are to various software/processing parameters... which would still be able to generate a notably different sound from the same underlying samples.

http://www.studiologic-music.com/numa-piano-update10.html

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#1835128 - 01/30/12 04:18 PM Re: OK, I admit it, I made a mistake... [Re: voxpops]
PianoZac Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/22/10
Posts: 1421
Vox, are the samples from Studiologic downloaded the way Nords are? Also, do they tell you brand of piano, and how large the samples are? I'm guessing part of what makes the Nords as expensive as they are, outside of the way in which they're constructed and the manufacturing in lower numbers, is the kind of RAM they use, and the royalties they must surely pay to the various brand names of pianos and instruments they use and quote so openly.
_________________________
Kawai RX-2
Nord Piano 2


"Life is a lot like jazz...it's best when you improvise."

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#1835157 - 01/30/12 04:46 PM Re: OK, I admit it, I made a mistake... [Re: voxpops]
EssBrace Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/01/09
Posts: 2332
Loc: Suffolk, United Kingdom
Vox, I did exactly what you have done a few years back with a Roland RD-600. Had one, sold it to get a Korg SG-Pro-X, immediately felt a pang of remorse and bought another RD just a few months later. A costly experience. And if you were to see the long list of boards I've had since I don't think you'd come to the conclusion I really learned from it!

Still, you can't take the money with you! This has become my mantra in life to try and stave off the worst of the guilt.

MP6 has a really great key action and I don't think you could better it in something so easily portable so enjoy it a second time around!

Cheers,

Steve
_________________________
Yamaha CP1

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#1835170 - 01/30/12 04:55 PM Re: OK, I admit it, I made a mistake... [Re: anotherscott]
Kawai James Online   content
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 8402
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Originally Posted By: anotherscott
I doubt the update pack includes any new samples. That would require that the samples be kept in an expensive kind of re-writeable memory (a la Nord). I mean, I don't think they'd go to the expense unless they intended, from the start, to offer the ability to upgrade to new sounds (as Nord does), and if that were the case, I'd think they would make that a big marketing point, but they've never made any such claim.


I'm inclined to agree, however how do you explain the 92mb download?

Cheers,
James
x

ps. Congrats vox...again! wink
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#1835184 - 01/30/12 05:05 PM Re: OK, I admit it, I made a mistake... [Re: anotherscott]
voxpops Online   content
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/20/07
Posts: 2920
Loc: Oregon
Originally Posted By: anotherscott
I doubt the update pack includes any new samples. That would require that the samples be kept in an expensive kind of re-writeable memory (a la Nord).

Well, this is the weird thing. When you update the Numa, you do the DSP firmware first, which takes a few seconds. Then you do the sounds, which is the big file that takes about an hour to update - way slower than swapping out a Nord XL sample. However, it does much the same as the Nord, erasing the flash memory as part of the process. Lastly, you update the control panel firmware - again a very quick operation. Now, I'm no technical expert, but that is a much more involved process than just updating the envelopes etc. And the end result is acoustic pianos that seem to have quite a different character from the original. I wouldn't stick my neck out and say that it's definitely loading new samples, but it sure does seem like it.

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#1835193 - 01/30/12 05:13 PM Re: OK, I admit it, I made a mistake... [Re: PianoZac]
voxpops Online   content
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/20/07
Posts: 2920
Loc: Oregon
Originally Posted By: ZacharyForbes
Vox, are the samples from Studiologic downloaded the way Nords are? Also, do they tell you brand of piano, and how large the samples are? I'm guessing part of what makes the Nords as expensive as they are, outside of the way in which they're constructed and the manufacturing in lower numbers, is the kind of RAM they use, and the royalties they must surely pay to the various brand names of pianos and instruments they use and quote so openly.

Yes, if you see my reply above, you'll see that the process is very similar to updating a Nord, albeit using a less refined interface.

They don't tell you the brand of piano or the individual sample sizes, but the unzipped update pack is around the 120mb mark. Since the EPs don't seem to have changed much between packs, I'd say that the biggest portion of the 120mb is going towards the APs. Surely that is more than just tweaking?

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#1835195 - 01/30/12 05:15 PM Re: OK, I admit it, I made a mistake... [Re: Kawai James]
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Originally Posted By: Kawai James
I'm inclined to agree, however how do you explain the 92mb download?

Sloppy programming? ;-)

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#1835199 - 01/30/12 05:17 PM Re: OK, I admit it, I made a mistake... [Re: EssBrace]
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Originally Posted By: EssBrace
Vox, I did exactly what you have done a few years back with a Roland RD-600. Had one, sold it to get a Korg SG-Pro-X, immediately felt a pang of remorse and bought another RD just a few months later. A costly experience. And if you were to see the long list of boards I've had since I don't think you'd come to the conclusion I really learned from it!

Still, you can't take the money with you! This has become my mantra in life to try and stave off the worst of the guilt.

MP6 has a really great key action and I don't think you could better it in something so easily portable so enjoy it a second time around!

Cheers,

Steve

Thanks, Steve! As for not taking it with you (money or keyboards), as long as they've sorted out their samples and modeling in the next world, I'll be happy. wink

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#1835203 - 01/30/12 05:21 PM Re: OK, I admit it, I made a mistake... [Re: voxpops]
EssBrace Offline
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Originally Posted By: voxpops
Thanks, Steve! As for not taking it with you (money or keyboards), as long as they've sorted out their samples and modeling in the next world, I'll be happy. wink


I fear we might all have to wait that long!
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#1835211 - 01/30/12 05:28 PM Re: OK, I admit it, I made a mistake... [Re: Kawai James]
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Originally Posted By: Kawai James
ps. Congrats vox...again! wink


Thanks, James! Now, no introducing the MP7 at this year's Musikmesse... wink

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#1835216 - 01/30/12 05:30 PM Re: OK, I admit it, I made a mistake... [Re: voxpops]
EssBrace Offline
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Originally Posted By: voxpops
Originally Posted By: Kawai James
ps. Congrats vox...again! wink


Thanks, James! Now, no introducing the MP7 at this year's Musikmesse... wink


Or the MP11! (I wouldn't even forgive MP10ii either).
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#1835230 - 01/30/12 05:50 PM Re: OK, I admit it, I made a mistake... [Re: voxpops]
anotherscott Online   content
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Originally Posted By: voxpops
Well, this is the weird thing. When you update the Numa, you do the DSP firmware first, which takes a few seconds. Then you do the sounds, which is the big file that takes about an hour to update - way slower than swapping out a Nord XL sample. However, it does much the same as the Nord, erasing the flash memory as part of the process. Lastly, you update the control panel firmware - again a very quick operation. Now, I'm no technical expert, but that is a much more involved process than just updating the envelopes etc. And the end result is acoustic pianos that seem to have quite a different character from the original. I wouldn't stick my neck out and say that it's definitely loading new samples, but it sure does seem like it.

Interesting. Well, I'm certainly not in a position to say it's impossible, I would just find it surprising.

Originally Posted By: voxpops
Since the EPs don't seem to have changed much between packs, I'd say that the biggest portion of the 120mb is going towards the APs.

Based on that link I pasted above, there were no changes at all to the EPs. They only talked about changes to the Piano, Clav, and Pad... and in the case of Clav and Pad, it really sounds like they are talking about envelopes and other processing. So I would say that *if* there are new samples in the update, they are only in the piano.

Even for the piano, they don't actually claim to be loading new samples. Here's what they say:
---
Improved and extended total dynamic range; optimized sound and envelopes modeling for a greater expressiveness and overall timbre definition of a concert grand piano from the “pianissimo” subtle nuances to the brighter powerful “fortissimo”.
---
Could it involve new samples? I guess so, but it doesn't sounds like it from their description.

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#1835255 - 01/30/12 06:13 PM Re: OK, I admit it, I made a mistake... [Re: voxpops]
Kawai James Online   content
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Originally Posted By: voxpops
Thanks, James! Now, no introducing the MP7 at this year's Musikmesse... wink


Nope, not yet. Musikmesse will most likely be about other product ranges.
However, there may be something for MP fans later in the year. wink

Cheers,
James
x
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#1835258 - 01/30/12 06:15 PM Re: OK, I admit it, I made a mistake... [Re: Kawai James]
EssBrace Offline
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Originally Posted By: Kawai James
However, there may be something for MP fans later in the year. wink

Cheers,
James
x


Whoa!! Hang on...do you mean something for MP fans - or something for MP owners? Come on James, reveal just another wee hint....
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#1835261 - 01/30/12 06:17 PM Re: OK, I admit it, I made a mistake... [Re: anotherscott]
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Originally Posted By: anotherscott
Could it involve new samples? I guess so, but it doesn't sounds like it from their description.

Yes, but since the marketing department guys can't seem to agree among themselves how much the Numa weighs, I'd very much doubt that they'd get everything right about the internal workings of the thing.

The Numa Piano is actually quite a bit more sophisticated than perhaps we give the designers credit for - it's all the other stuff: non-existent support/communication; sloppy bug-fixing; poor screen-printing; lackadaisical marketing, that lets the side down.

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#1835271 - 01/30/12 06:24 PM Re: OK, I admit it, I made a mistake... [Re: EssBrace]
voxpops Online   content
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Originally Posted By: EssBrace
Originally Posted By: Kawai James
However, there may be something for MP fans later in the year. wink

Cheers,
James
x


Whoa!! Hang on...do you mean something for MP fans - or something for MP owners? Come on James, reveal just another wee hint....

What?! Am i going to have sell the damn thing again?!!! Well, maybe I should be grateful that Kawai's perhaps listening to us all. I've long believed that they could produce THE killer stage piano if they wanted to (and not one that takes a steroidal gorilla or the entire bar staff to set up wink ).

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#1835275 - 01/30/12 06:31 PM Re: OK, I admit it, I made a mistake... [Re: voxpops]
Kawai James Online   content
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Sorry chaps, no more hints about new products.

However the 'listening to its customers' part is spot on. wink

James
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#1835573 - 01/31/12 06:56 AM Re: OK, I admit it, I made a mistake... [Re: voxpops]
kiedysktos. Offline
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I played a gig with FP-4 + NE3 setting, and it's great connection for me, both lightweight smile

As previously posted, you may use MP6 + NE3 combination. Switching may not be problem, using volume on your MP6 and midi switching it may last about 2 seconds. Only disadvantage is that in piano+organ pieces you have another piano timbre (from MP6), but I suspect in those pieces the sound of the band is more powerfull and MP6 sound may even sound better in that setting, and subtle sound effects aren't important. So if you can ignore timbre changing issue, 2 second switching is low price for having top piano, organ and EP sounds plus great action.
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#1835679 - 01/31/12 12:00 PM Re: OK, I admit it, I made a mistake... [Re: kiedysktos.]
voxpops Online   content
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Kiedysktos, that's a pretty good combination. Before I sold my Electro 3, I did a few shows with the FP-4 and NE3, but never used MIDI to drive the NE3's pianos. If I can avoid using MIDI for anything other than a synth module, I will, as I'd prefer to have no external connections for my main sounds. Even two seconds is too long for many of my switches between piano and organ.

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#1835700 - 01/31/12 12:47 PM Re: OK, I admit it, I made a mistake... [Re: voxpops]
PianoZac Offline
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James, perhaps there is the long awaited ES7 coming?? smile With the RH action couple with PHI sound technology and its built in speakers? That'd be a killer little DP.
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#1835811 - 01/31/12 04:48 PM Re: OK, I admit it, I made a mistake... [Re: voxpops]
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Indeed it would. wink

James
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#1835836 - 01/31/12 05:28 PM Re: OK, I admit it, I made a mistake... [Re: PianoZac]
KHen Offline
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Originally Posted By: ZacharyForbes
James, perhaps there is the long awaited ES7 coming?? smile With the RH action couple with PHI sound technology and its built in speakers? That'd be a killer little DP.


That's the one I'm waiting for!

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#1835846 - 01/31/12 05:33 PM Re: OK, I admit it, I made a mistake... [Re: KHen]
EssBrace Offline
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Originally Posted By: KHen
Originally Posted By: ZacharyForbes
James, perhaps there is the long awaited ES7 coming?? smile With the RH action couple with PHI sound technology and its built in speakers? That'd be a killer little DP.


That's the one I'm waiting for!


It would seem your wait may soon be over....
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#1835853 - 01/31/12 05:43 PM Re: OK, I admit it, I made a mistake... [Re: voxpops]
anotherscott Online   content
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The sound of an MP10 in a much more portable box, with speakers, would be great... though I doubt they will make anything light enough for me!

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#1835938 - 01/31/12 07:21 PM Re: OK, I admit it, I made a mistake... [Re: voxpops]
gvfarns Offline
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Yeah, I've never seen a really portable wood-action Kawai. I wonder to what degree such a thing would even be possible.

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#1835951 - 01/31/12 07:38 PM Re: OK, I admit it, I made a mistake... [Re: EssBrace]
vegasE Offline
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Originally Posted By: EssBrace
Originally Posted By: voxpops
Originally Posted By: Kawai James
ps. Congrats vox...again! wink


Thanks, James! Now, no introducing the MP7 at this year's Musikmesse... wink


Or the MP11! (I wouldn't even forgive MP10ii either).


It's going to get a little confusing after the MP7.
Marketing dept will need to meet to sort that one out over a long lunch.

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#1836005 - 01/31/12 09:07 PM Re: OK, I admit it, I made a mistake... [Re: voxpops]
Dr Popper Offline
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Don't feel too bad I've been guilty of letting things go when I shouldn't have and having to re buy them. My CP-80M comes to mind immediately and it was only in the last 12 months I got another decent one.
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#1836097 - 01/31/12 11:27 PM Re: OK, I admit it, I made a mistake... [Re: voxpops]
Fun2Learn Offline
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Quote:
the FP-7F is fine for me as a home piano, and I have no intention of getting rid of it


Hello, Voxpops. I have been reading this thread with interest as the MP6 is one piano we are considering in our search for a good home piano that has lots of the digital features (extra voices, etc) typically found in a stage- type piano. We are also considering the Roland Fp-7f. Since you have(had)both, how would you compare the two for home use? How would you compare the actions, especially for a young teen who is still taking lessons and needs a good action for practice, but also wants to have fun getting creative with all the different voices, layers, etc. Thanks!

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#1836110 - 01/31/12 11:54 PM Re: OK, I admit it, I made a mistake... [Re: Fun2Learn]
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Originally Posted By: Fun2Learn
Quote:
the FP-7F is fine for me as a home piano, and I have no intention of getting rid of it


Hello, Voxpops. I have been reading this thread with interest as the MP6 is one piano we are considering in our search for a good home piano that has lots of the digital features (extra voices, etc) typically found in a stage- type piano. We are also considering the Roland Fp-7f. Since you have(had)both, how would you compare the two for home use? How would you compare the actions, especially for a young teen who is still taking lessons and needs a good action for practice, but also wants to have fun getting creative with all the different voices, layers, etc. Thanks!

Both the Roland and Kawai pianos have very good actions that will work well for serious practice. The Roland, with its three sensors, is perhaps capable of faster repetition, which will be useful for advanced study, but the Kawai action feels great.

The extras on each of these pianos are quite different. The Kawai, being a stage piano, is designed to make it easy to control other external devices and give easy access to the hundreds of built-in sounds. The Roland has a vocal harmonizer and quite sophisticated accompaniment features (neither of which I use). Both can layer sounds effectively, although the Kawai can layer and control four sounds with ease.

Personally, I would select the FP-7F for home use and learning. It has a great player/sound connection - very expressive and controllable. That said, my previous MP6 was sold to a couple with a young daughter who believed it would be a great instrument for the family to learn on. Personal preference, as always, plays the biggest part in such decisions.

If you can wait, there may be a new Kawai ES7 available later this year, which will be a direct competitor to the FP-7F and will have internal speakers.

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#1836112 - 01/31/12 11:57 PM Re: OK, I admit it, I made a mistake... [Re: Dr Popper]
voxpops Online   content
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Originally Posted By: Dr Popper
Don't feel too bad I've been guilty of letting things go when I shouldn't have and having to re buy them. My CP-80M comes to mind immediately and it was only in the last 12 months I got another decent one.

That was such a great instrument, Doc. I still don't think any of the CP-70/80 emulations really do it justice.

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#1836126 - 02/01/12 12:18 AM Re: OK, I admit it, I made a mistake... [Re: voxpops]
Kawai James Online   content
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Originally Posted By: voxpops
Originally Posted By: Dr Popper
Don't feel too bad I've been guilty of letting things go when I shouldn't have and having to re buy them. My CP-80M comes to mind immediately and it was only in the last 12 months I got another decent one.

That was such a great instrument, Doc. I still don't think any of the CP-70/80 emulations really do it justice.


The CP1 is supposed to be pretty damn close though...

James
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#1836155 - 02/01/12 01:18 AM Re: OK, I admit it, I made a mistake... [Re: voxpops]
Dr Popper Offline
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It is close but like anything it ain't the same ...me want same thing not close thing wink
It's like CS-80 and Jupiter 8 software emulations ... it's close but ... NO REAL KNOBS !!!!!
Me wants losta knobs wink


Edited by Dr Popper (02/01/12 01:20 AM)
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#1836217 - 02/01/12 04:54 AM Re: OK, I admit it, I made a mistake... [Re: voxpops]
EssBrace Offline
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I find the Nord's CP-80 voice disappointing. I've never played a decent sample of the CP-70/80 - but then I've never played a CP1. The brief clips of the CP1's sound is unquestionably better than any other emulation I've heard.
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#1836236 - 02/01/12 05:35 AM Re: OK, I admit it, I made a mistake... [Re: voxpops]
Dr Popper Offline
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It's pretty good ... in fact the CP1 is the best EP emulator you can buy live or recorded ...the AP's are fantastic in a live setting but unrecordable.
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#1836243 - 02/01/12 05:50 AM Re: OK, I admit it, I made a mistake... [Re: voxpops]
EssBrace Offline
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Yes and I'm not the biggest fan of the run-of-the-mill DX sounds usually (sampled versions can be cheesy in the extreme) but the real FM engine on the CP1 has a couple of DX sounds that are to die for. It's a shame the CP1 has never really imposed itself on the market - it's a fitting Yamaha flagship notwithstanding the technical limitations as far as recording the APs are concerned - but just for playing, who cares about that? (enter Dewster, stage left...)
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#1837895 - 02/03/12 11:33 AM Re: OK, I admit it, I made a mistake... [Re: voxpops]
Fun2Learn Offline
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Quote:
Personally, I would select the FP-7F for home use and learning. It has a great player/sound connection - very expressive and controllable.


Thanks so much, Voxpops. Since you have both pianos, and are obviously also an experienced player, you are in a great position to compare them for me! I value your opinion. This is SUCH an expensive item, that I don't want to have any regrets. And I don't play, so I can't really judge myself.

Quote:
If you can wait, there may be a new Kawai ES7 available later this year, which will be a direct competitor to the FP-7F and will have internal speakers.

--It is interested that you say that, as I was hoping that Kawai might have introduced it, or something like it, at the NAMM convention last month.

I just did a quick google to refresh my memory on how much the ES6 cost, and it looks like it isn't being sold at the online music retailers right now! I only found one for sale on ebay and on Kawais's site. Hmmm....Maybe the updated version is going to be introduced VERY soon? Perhaps at that Musicmasse or whatever it is called, over in Europe? If something new in DP's in introduced in Europe, though, how long before it usually in brought to the states, too? I wonder if they will add more features, like the FP-7f has.

I almost bought the Roland FP-7f online the other night (MF was having a 15% off sale), but by the time I also put the matching wood stand ($300!!) and the bench, etc. in the cart, is was so expensive, that I balked, and took another look at the MP6. With the 15% off, it was only $1274! Very tempting. Then I got all confused again, wondering if I would be paying alot more, if I went with the Roland, for an action that wasn't as good. So you've helped me feel confident that Roland's action will allow her to practice technique on it sufficiently. I think that the trouble my daughter had on it in the store (she said it was hard to play softly on it) was due to some unusual setting being applied (salesclerks didn't know how to do a reset.) Thanks again so much for your comments and feedback.

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#1837938 - 02/03/12 12:34 PM Re: OK, I admit it, I made a mistake... [Re: voxpops]
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Fun2Learn, if you get the FP-7F I would suggest setting Key Touch to "Heavy" in the function menu, and, if that works better for your daughter, save it in the Memory Backup (page 75 of the manual). She should have no problem playing pianissimo then. Likewise, be aware that some non-SN piano sounds (such as Rock Piano) do not have the same gradation of timbre that's available in the main piano sounds.

I'm curious as to whether you actually managed to get the 15%-off coupon to work online at Musicians Friend. Usually, once you try to apply the coupon to any item from a major brand, it tells you that it's not applicable. Then you have to call and haggle!

My "replacement" MP6 has just arrived this morning. If I find that any of my original opinions about it have changed since I sold my previous one, I'll post those thoughts.

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#1837991 - 02/03/12 01:56 PM Re: OK, I admit it, I made a mistake... [Re: Fun2Learn]
teiresias Offline
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If you're talking about the groundhog discount MF has going on right now, both Kawai and Roland are in the excluded list for that (and it's a rather extensive list of excluded brands) so neither of these would qualify for that 15% off anyway - at least I couldn't get it to apply to either one.

Between the FP-7F and the MP6 actions, I keep going back and forth between the heavier Roland and the lighter Kawai. The heavier action of the FP-7f is familiar to me since back when I was younger and played I practiced and played on uprights that all had fairly heavy actions.

So the FP-7F action weight feels "familiar", but I'm not sure it's actually best for me at this point. I do so much typing, programming, writing, etc. all day at my job, that I think coming home to a lighter action would be a welcome change and perhaps help with the possibility of developing repetitive injuries. It's the same reason I prefer mechanical computer keyboards with cherry brown switches over membrane keyboards for home use since I can't convince work to spend the money on them, so I'm stuck with a membrane keyboard at work.

I also remember being frustrated when I was younger, never being able to get fast scale runs up to the speed I'd like, and I think I just could never overcome the weight of the actions I was playing on. So maybe a lighter action would benefit me in that regard.

The few times I've test played a FP-7F the action always seemed very noisy to me as well, whereas the CN23 I played was pretty silent (I can't find a MP6 locally to play, the closest I could get was a CN23, but I know that doesn't have the let-off in the action, and I'm not sure how that changes the feel of the keys). The noise of the action is pretty important to me given my small living space. I also am intrigued with building a small computer and playing around with software pianos, so the SuperNatural pianos on the Roland would make less difference then.

I also think the MP6 looks better - yeah, I'm shallow like that. wink


Edited by teiresias (02/03/12 01:59 PM)

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#1837999 - 02/03/12 02:09 PM Re: OK, I admit it, I made a mistake... [Re: voxpops]
spanishbuddha Offline
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Interesting observation that the FP-7F action is heavier (than the MP6) because most people who have posted in the past say the 7F is a light action.

I have a CN33 and also regularly play on a 7F. I like both actions, but there is no doubt that my LH tires quicker with the 7F when doing a piece with something like an Alberti bass throughout. The 7F action is crisper, but as you noted noisier and also bottoms out hard. The CN33 action is not so crisp (looser) and softer, but connects well with the sound.

There are also tiny differences in the width and height of the blacks, the slope off of the edges and so on. So both are great and in the end it's what you like best, as you say.

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#1838001 - 02/03/12 02:11 PM Re: OK, I admit it, I made a mistake... [Re: voxpops]
voxpops Online   content
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MP6 opened and setup. No problems!

Nice that it had the latest OS already installed. No change in my opinion about the action - it's very good. As to whether it's heavier or lighter than the FP-7F, I'm not sure. I haven't got the two pianos alongside each other, but I think they are just slightly different in their playing characteristics, rather than weighted much differently. I think the key return is possibly a fraction quicker on the Roland, but both keyboards are eminently playable.

I shall reserve any modification of my opinion about the sound until after tonight's gig, since I'm going to use the MP on that. I hope the band will forgive my fumbling for switches!


Edited by voxpops (02/03/12 05:29 PM)

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#1838007 - 02/03/12 02:32 PM Re: OK, I admit it, I made a mistake... [Re: spanishbuddha]
teiresias Offline
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It's possible I'm remember the 7F wrong, or perhaps I just remember the hard bottoming out on the 7F, which was very noticeable to me when I played it. Of course, the very first DP I test played back when I started looking was a P155, and that's definitely lighter than a 7F so I probably use adjectives that make everything relative to that Yamaha.

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#1838078 - 02/03/12 05:08 PM Re: OK, I admit it, I made a mistake... [Re: Fun2Learn]
Kawai James Online   content
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Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Originally Posted By: Fun2Learn
I just did a quick google to refresh my memory on how much the ES6 cost, and it looks like it isn't being sold at the online music retailers right now! I only found one for sale on ebay and on Kawais's site.


This is actually quite normal. In the US, the ES6 is only sold by Kawai dealers, not the larger chain/online stores.

Originally Posted By: Fun2Learn
Hmmm....Maybe the updated version is going to be introduced VERY soon? Perhaps at that Musicmasse or whatever it is called, over in Europe? If something new in DP's in introduced in Europe, though, how long before it usually in brought to the states, too?


It depends on the instrument and manufacturer, however most DPs usually arrive in dealer stores approximately 2-3 months after being unveiled at trade shows. There are of course some exceptions, with instruments shipping shortly after launch (e.g. CE220), and others taking a little longer.

Originally Posted By: Fun2Learn
I think that the trouble my daughter had on it in the store (she said it was hard to play softly on it) was due to some unusual setting being applied (salesclerks didn't know how to do a reset.)


I would definitely return to the store to confirm this. If the sales person is unfamiliar with the instrument's operation, politely suggest that they read the owner's manual.

Kind regards,
James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

Top
#1838080 - 02/03/12 05:13 PM Re: OK, I admit it, I made a mistake... [Re: voxpops]
Kawai James Online   content
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 8402
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Originally Posted By: voxpops
As to whether it's heavier or lighter than the MP6...


I assume you mean FP-7F?

James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

Top
#1838093 - 02/03/12 05:31 PM Re: OK, I admit it, I made a mistake... [Re: Kawai James]
voxpops Online   content
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/20/07
Posts: 2920
Loc: Oregon
Originally Posted By: Kawai James
Originally Posted By: voxpops
As to whether it's heavier or lighter than the MP6...


I assume you mean FP-7F?

James
x

Thanks for spotting that, James. I've amended my post.

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#1838243 - 02/03/12 10:46 PM Re: OK, I admit it, I made a mistake... [Re: teiresias]
Fun2Learn Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/14/11
Posts: 107
Quote:
If you're talking about the groundhog discount MF has going on right now, both Kawai and Roland are in the excluded list for that (and it's a rather extensive list of excluded brands) so neither of these would qualify for that 15% off anyway - at least I couldn't get it to apply to either one.


I had talked with a customer service rep from MF over the phone, and he didn't mention the discount not applying to Rolands! He did tell me to click on the "feedback" tab (upper menu) and send a note (to Tech services/keyboards)explaining that I want to bundle a package together and get the 15%discount on the enitre package, or an even better price. (He told me that he thought they would give me an even better price!?) I thought he was just having me ask that way so I could get the discount on the entire bundle. Perhaps that is the way to "override" the "exclusion" in general, though?

It is interesting that you are also considering the same two that we are, Teiresias.
Quote:
The few times I've test played a FP-7F the action always seemed very noisy to me as well, whereas the CN23 I played was pretty silent
I noticed that, too.When we were in a large piano store and my DD (dear daughter) was playing the FP-7f with headphones on, I could hear the clicking clear across the store. I did not notice that with the Kawai.
Quote:
I also think the MP6 looks better - yeah, I'm shallow like that
-Heh, that is not shallow- that shows sensitivity to design or the visual arts! My DD would agree that looks is important--especially in her bedroom. She likes the wood stand of the Roland, and the built-in speakers, merely from a "looks" standpoint.
I wish Kawai made a nice looking wood stand for the MP6, but I think if you bought the one for the EP3 and just added your own wood board across the top(and painted it black), it might work (sort of like a table top) as a stand for the MP6.

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#1838251 - 02/03/12 11:11 PM Re: OK, I admit it, I made a mistake... [Re: Kawai James]
Fun2Learn Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/14/11
Posts: 107
Quote:
This is actually quite normal. In the US, the ES6 is only sold by Kawai dealers, not the larger chain/online stores.

Thanks, James. I seem now to remember reading that here somewhere, but had forgotten.

Quote:
There are of course some exceptions, with instruments shipping shortly after launch (e.g. CE220), and others taking a little longer.

When I was in the kawai store last week, I had asked the dealer about the CE220. He called his rep to find out when they would be shipped and he was told in February, but that the enitre shipment was already spoken for, but he could put in an order for one on the next shipment in March! It sounds like it is very popular already!
However, both the dealer and his rep seemed to really want to discourage me from getting the CE220. The dealer said that they never carried its predecessor, the CE200 because it was mainly carried by internet retailers and that they couldn't make any money on it, and that the quality just wasn't as good as the CN series. Then I said that I had heard that the action was very good, and that it was the AWA PRO II action, which they had a model of sitting on top of the CA 63! One salesclerk had earlier told me that the AWA PRO II was the same action as the RM3, without escapement,except without the simulated ivory. The Kawai rep said that the AWA PRO ii action was two generations behind the RM3, and had the pins in a straight line, whereas the RM3 action had the pins staggered like in a grand, or something like that. Is this true? Just wondering.
Thanks.

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#1838269 - 02/03/12 11:51 PM Re: OK, I admit it, I made a mistake... [Re: Fun2Learn]
Kawai James Online   content
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 8402
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Originally Posted By: Fun2Learn
Thanks, James. I seem now to remember reading that here somewhere, but had forgotten.


I think it's easy to confuse the ES6 (dealers only) with the EP3 (online/chain stores, but lower specs), because they look almost identical, and were both launched at more or less the same time.

Originally Posted By: Fun2Learn
When I was in the kawai store last week, I had asked the dealer about the CE220. He called his rep to find out when they would be shipped and he was told in February, but that the enitre shipment was already spoken for, but he could put in an order for one on the next shipment in March! It sounds like it is very popular already!


Indeed - it's a lot of piano for the money. wink

Originally Posted By: Fun2Learn
However, both the dealer and his rep seemed to really want to discourage me from getting the CE220. The dealer said that they never carried its predecessor, the CE200 because it was mainly carried by internet retailers and that they couldn't make any money on it...


Yes, I think there's some truth in that - the online/chain stores sell large quantities of product, and can therefore operate on much smaller margins than the independent piano stores.

Originally Posted By: Fun2Learn
...and that the quality just wasn't as good as the CN series.


I don't agree with this. The CN/CA models may offer a more attractive cabinet (in my opinion), however these instruments are all produced in the same factory, so the build quality should be the same high standard.

Originally Posted By: Fun2Learn
Then I said that I had heard that the action was very good, and that it was the AWA PRO II action, which they had a model of sitting on top of the CA 63!


I wonder if it wasn't the 'RM3 Grand' action model, with the grand piano shaped explanation board attached to the back?



Originally Posted By: Fun2Learn
One salesclerk had earlier told me that the AWA PRO II was the same action as the RM3, without escapement,except without the simulated ivory.


The 'AWA Pro II' and 'RM3 Grand' actions share many features (long wooden keys, moving parts/sensors located at the back, see-saw movement, etc.), however there are some important differences:

- Ivory Touch key surfaces (add friction, absorb surface moisture)
- Staggered balance pins for white and black keys (more consistent key weighting)
- Different hammer weighting/shape (improved realism)
- Let-off simulation (on CA93 and CS6)
- Structural differences (along action rail)

Originally Posted By: Fun2Learn
The Kawai rep said that the AWA PRO ii action was two generations behind the RM3...


I believe it's one generation behind, although there have been a couple of minor revisions to 'AWA Pro II' over the years,

Originally Posted By: Fun2Learn
...and had the pins in a straight line, whereas the RM3 action had the pins staggered like in a grand, or something like that.


Yes, this is correct.

Originally Posted By: Fun2Learn
Is this true? Just wondering.


Yes, mostly true. wink

Cheers,
James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

Top
#1838334 - 02/04/12 02:36 AM Re: OK, I admit it, I made a mistake... [Re: voxpops]
voxpops Online   content
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/20/07
Posts: 2920
Loc: Oregon
A few thoughts after using the MP6 on a gig.

Even though it's a chunky beast, it's fairly easy to manhandle.

Loved playing the Classic EP 1 sound. I was monitoring in mono and lost the tremolo as a result, but even so, this Rhodes sound slices through the mix and can be quite inspirational - my improvised solos definitely improved.

For APs I played mainly Concert Grand 1, and threw in the Studio Grand 1 on a couple of numbers as well. My opinion on this hasn't really changed. It has a nice transparent tone, that definitely sounds more piano-like than many DPs, but you can hear the slight harshness and short decay in the upper mids. I didn't have an opportunity to tweak the settings to try to dial out some of that, but I know it's possible to improve it to a certain extent. That aside, it played nicely, and has a beautifully rich bass and a sparkly treble.

I didn't use much else apart from Wurli (60's EP), which sounded quite good, and, on one occasion, steel drums for a bizarre solo!

The action generally performed well, although, to my surprise, I found fast trills a little hit-and-miss on the black notes. This is probably due to the shorter length of keys, and is a tough challenge for most DPs. Also, I had set the velocity curve to "heavy" but I wasn't totally happy with it. There seems to be a point at which piano transitions almost to forte very quickly. I need to set the user curve - again, I know that that will improve playability.

There was one software glitch during the show. I'd set sounds using the four zone controls on the front panel, and when I switched from #4 back to #1 zone, the very next chord I played sustained itself without the pedal being depressed. That was a little weird. I only did that switch maneuver once during the show so I don't yet know if it was a one-off glitch or whether there's a small problem with the latest firmware.

As a bread and butter (or meat and potatoes, if you prefer) gigging board, the MP6 performs pretty well. I'm not sure if I'd find the RD-700NX or CP5 worth the extra $1,000. I certainly wouldn't relish the extra 8lbs. Without a doubt, the action feels much nicer than the Fatar on my Numa Piano and the Roland FP-4. After a few tweaks to improve the APs and velocity curve, I think I'll be happy to use the MP6 on future shows.

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#1838359 - 02/04/12 03:58 AM Re: OK, I admit it, I made a mistake... [Re: voxpops]
Kawai James Online   content
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 8402
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Welcome back.

Now all you need to do is re-buy a 61-key Electro 3 and you're back on the Christmas card list. wink

Please let me know if you are able to recreate that software glitch (at home) and I'll report it to the development chap.

Cheers,
James
x

ps. I smiled at the bread'n'butter / meat'n'potatoes line. wink
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

Top
#1838449 - 02/04/12 10:06 AM Re: OK, I admit it, I made a mistake... [Re: Kawai James]
voxpops Online   content
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/20/07
Posts: 2920
Loc: Oregon
Originally Posted By: Kawai James
Welcome back.

Why, thank you, James!
Originally Posted By: Kawai James

Now all you need to do is re-buy a 61-key Electro 3 and you're back on the Christmas card list. wink

Gosh, it's an expensive business getting on your Christmas card list. grin
Originally Posted By: Kawai James

Please let me know if you are able to recreate that software glitch (at home) and I'll report it to the development chap.

Will do!

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#1843824 - 02/13/12 01:01 PM Re: OK, I admit it, I made a mistake... [Re: Kawai James]
IMOL Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/15/10
Posts: 55

perhaps the software glitch is as follows:
I hope to explain well with my bad English!!! frown

in a setup (or two sounds in layers, zones 1 and 2)
if you switch off an ZONE while the Damper Pedal is pressed
the sound is Hold

the sound is maintained until to the natural decay.
if this sound is a STRING or ORGAN, it remain in hold.

(you should send a control reset when you switch off the zone)


Voxpop:
Do you have ever tried to improve the sound of electric piano, Rhodes?

would be nice to be able to exchange personal Setup between MP6's users
it is now easier to load only one SETUP

regards

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#1843869 - 02/13/12 02:30 PM Re: OK, I admit it, I made a mistake... [Re: IMOL]
voxpops Online   content
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/20/07
Posts: 2920
Loc: Oregon
Originally Posted By: IMOL

perhaps the software glitch is as follows:
I hope to explain well with my bad English!!! frown

in a setup (or two sounds in layers, zones 1 and 2)
if you switch off an ZONE while the Damper Pedal is pressed
the sound is Hold

the sound is maintained until to the natural decay.
if this sound is a STRING or ORGAN, it remain in hold.

(you should send a control reset when you switch off the zone)


Thanks for that information, IMOL. I haven't been able to cause the problem again, so maybe I did have the pedal depressed.

Quote:

Voxpop:
Do you have ever tried to improve the sound of electric piano, Rhodes?

When I had my first MP6 I played around with the Rhodes settings, but I haven't really tried with the replacement MP6. When I get some time, I'll have another go. I do recall I increased the key-off noise, and delayed it slightly.

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#1843988 - 02/13/12 05:07 PM Re: OK, I admit it, I made a mistake... [Re: IMOL]
Kawai James Online   content
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 8402
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Originally Posted By: IMOL

perhaps the software glitch is as follows:
I hope to explain well with my bad English!!! frown

in a setup (or two sounds in layers, zones 1 and 2)
if you switch off an ZONE while the Damper Pedal is pressed
the sound is Hold

the sound is maintained until to the natural decay.
if this sound is a STRING or ORGAN, it remain in hold.

(you should send a control reset when you switch off the zone)


IMOL, I believe that bug has been fixed in a recent beta update.
Please let me know if you would like me to send the file to you.

Cheers,
James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

Top
#1844378 - 02/14/12 09:46 AM Re: OK, I admit it, I made a mistake... [Re: Kawai James]
IMOL Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/15/10
Posts: 55
James
Thank you, you're very kind
If you want you can send me the file
but I'd like to know if there are other improvements

regards

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#1849128 - 02/21/12 02:13 PM Re: OK, I admit it, I made a mistake... [Re: voxpops]
ONfrank Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/27/11
Posts: 98
Originally Posted By: Kawai James
Originally Posted By: voxpops
Thanks, James! Now, no introducing the MP7 at this year's Musikmesse... wink


Nope, not yet. Musikmesse will most likely be about other product ranges.
However, there may be something for MP fans later in the year. wink

Cheers,
James
x


Oh can I play this game?

MP6 Lite:
A pure piano MP6 with reduced voices (same as MP10 selection), PHI and RH, priced at $1000?

MP10 Lite:
MP10 with UPHI and the lighter weight MP6 keybed, priced at $2000?

Top
#1849210 - 02/21/12 04:27 PM Re: OK, I admit it, I made a mistake... [Re: ONfrank]
voxpops Online   content
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/20/07
Posts: 2920
Loc: Oregon
Originally Posted By: ONfrank

MP6 Lite:
A pure piano MP6 with reduced voices (same as MP10 selection), PHI and RH, priced at $1000?

Nice idea, but I wonder if that would be economically viable. The "extra" voices probably cost little to include, and the hardware interface for the MP6 is now well established. The reduced price you suggest might make design and retooling costs prohibitive unless they can be sold in "Yamaha quantities".

Originally Posted By: ONfrank
MP10 Lite:
MP10 with UPHI and the lighter weight MP6 keybed, priced at $2000?

This is, for me, the Kawai holy grail. A top quality stage piano that can be carried and set up by one person. If one had been available this past year, I would have bought it.

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