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#1828061 - 01/19/12 06:16 PM Any info re: the new Kawai CE220?
Fun2Learn Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/14/11
Posts: 109
I can't seem to find any information about the new Kawi CE220 that Kawai James told us (in the NAMM announcements post)is being inroduced at the NAMM show. I tried the Kawai site and googled, but no luck--google keeps asking me, "did you mean Kawai CE200?", LOL). Does anyone have any links for more info?

I am curious if anything else has changed from the CE200 besides the sound generation system.(James--any idea when it will be available in the U.S. and if the price will be similar to that of the CE200? How does it compare with the MP 6 for action and sound (I know the MP6 probably has a lot more features.)
We had been looking for a digital piano for my daughter's Christmas present, but decided to wait until we saw what was announced at the NAMM show (since, I figured, like computers, the technology keeps improving while the prices keep going down, and we couldn't see exactly what we wanted in our price range anyway!)

Thanks so much.

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#1828069 - 01/19/12 06:24 PM Re: Any info re: the new Kawai CE220? [Re: Fun2Learn]
gvfarns Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/16/07
Posts: 3480
Loc: Pennsylvania
I don't have any inside info, but I'm sure it will use the RM3 action instead of AWA PRO II. It could hardly be otherwise.

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#1828154 - 01/19/12 08:46 PM Re: Any info re: the new Kawai CE220? [Re: Fun2Learn]
Kawai James Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 8822
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Fun2Learn, as mentioned in the NAMM thread, the main upgrade to the CE220 is the improved 'PHI' sound, with 88-key sampling. The keyboard action and most of the other specifications remain unchanged from the CE220, however the updated model adds 'USB to Device' functionality, allowing SMF (.MID) playback and recorded songs to be loaded/saved to USB memory.

The table below lists the main changes.



I have also uploaded the CE220 owner's manual to the Kawai Japan website:

http://www.kawai.co.jp/worldwide/support/manuals.html

The MP6 is undoubtedly the more flexible instrument in terms of features, however the CE220's wooden-key keyboard action is arguably superior.

I'm afraid I do not have any details regarding pricing and availability, however I expect Kawai America will make this information available shortly.

I hope this helps.

Kind regards,
James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#1828155 - 01/19/12 08:51 PM Re: Any info re: the new Kawai CE220? [Re: Kawai James]
gvfarns Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/16/07
Posts: 3480
Loc: Pennsylvania
Originally Posted By: Kawai James
The keyboard action and most of the other specifications remain unchanged from the CE220


Really? Trying to get rid of old stock of AWA PRO II, perhaps? I don't see any other Kawai pianos using that action. Certainly I didn't expect it in an update.

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#1828161 - 01/19/12 08:55 PM Re: Any info re: the new Kawai CE220? [Re: Fun2Learn]
Kawai James Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 8822
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
True, it may not be the latest and greatest, however I believe 'AWA Grand Pro II' is still a very, very good keyboard action.

Cheers,
James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#1828164 - 01/19/12 08:57 PM Re: Any info re: the new Kawai CE220? [Re: Fun2Learn]
gvfarns Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/16/07
Posts: 3480
Loc: Pennsylvania
It is at that. Thanks for the correction, James.

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#1828545 - 01/20/12 02:31 PM Re: Any info re: the new Kawai CE220? [Re: gvfarns]
Fun2Learn Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/14/11
Posts: 109
Thanks James! That chart was most helpful. One online seller I had talked with back in Dec. had offered me a great price on the CE200, and highly recommended its wood key action. I was concerned about buying a DP with the older sound system, like the CE200, though. So maybe the CE220 will be a good compromise for us--it doesn't have all the voices of the MP6, but all the rhythms will be fun for what my daughter is looking for--and the usb connections would be helpful down the line. She much prefers the look of a console over the stage piano, too. (If you remember some of my posts from back in Dec!) It sounds like you might actually prefer the AWA PRO II action to that of the MP6's RH action, or am I misunderstanding you?

Is the RH action of the MP6 any different at all than the RH action of the CN models? I was wondering if the stage piano had perhaps a shorter length key or some other feature that made it slightly different? I am wondering because my daughter tried both a CN33 and then the MP6 (each on different days) and she thought she didn't like the aciton of the MP 6 as much as she remembered liking the CN33--though other factors may have contributed to her experience(she might have been more tired when she was playing the MP6, the stand wasn't as firm, etc.)
She said that the keys of the MP6 felt more slippery--which is funny because the MP6 has the ivory feel, which the CN33 doesn't.
We will have to go see if we can find a dealer with a CE200 on the floor to test the action and see if the CE220 will be worth waiting for. Thanks again.
(and thanks, GVFarns also for your input!)

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#1828557 - 01/20/12 03:07 PM Re: Any info re: the new Kawai CE220? [Re: Kawai James]
vegasE Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/21/11
Posts: 226
Loc: Sydney, AU
Originally Posted By: Kawai James
True, it may not be the latest and greatest, however I believe 'AWA Grand Pro II' is still a very, very good keyboard action.

Cheers,
James
x


It is.

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#1828667 - 01/20/12 06:20 PM Re: Any info re: the new Kawai CE220? [Re: Fun2Learn]
Kawai James Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 8822
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Originally Posted By: Fun2Learn
It sounds like you might actually prefer the AWA PRO II action to that of the MP6's RH action, or am I misunderstanding you?


Yes, in terms of feeling/response, I would suggest that AWA Grand Pro II is superior to RH. However, I would add that - for a plastic key action - RH is very good.

Originally Posted By: Fun2Learn
Is the RH action of the MP6 any different at all than the RH action of the CN models?


No, it's exactly the same - the CN33/CN43 keyboard action is identical to the MP6 keyboard action: RH with Ivory Touch key surfaces and let-off simulation.

Originally Posted By: Fun2Learn
She said that the keys of the MP6 felt more slippery--which is funny because the MP6 has the ivory feel, which the CN33 doesn't.


Actually, both instruments feature Ivory Touch key surfaces. Differences in feel between two instruments with the same keyboard action may be attributed to the cabinet material (wood vs metal) and form (console vs portable on stand) etc.

Kind regards,
James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#1828669 - 01/20/12 06:21 PM Re: Any info re: the new Kawai CE220? [Re: Fun2Learn]
gvfarns Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/16/07
Posts: 3480
Loc: Pennsylvania
AWA PRO II is indeed better than RH, I think. In fact I feel comfortable saying that's a consensus. For those that like Kawai actions, which is a lot of people, it's the second best option after RM3. And the two wood actions are not so very different.


Edited by gvfarns (01/20/12 06:22 PM)

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#1829022 - 01/21/12 12:42 PM Re: Any info re: the new Kawai CE220? [Re: gvfarns]
Fun2Learn Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/14/11
Posts: 109
Quote:
AWA PRO II is indeed better than RH, I think

Thanks, everyone. I am glad to hear that Kawai has put their 2nd best action in a dp I can afford--though too bad the CE220 doesn't have quite as many of the "digital" extras as some of the others in that price range. I don't understand why the CE220/200 is now the only model that has that "2nd to the top" action then? Why couldn't they just as easily put it into all the lower tier home pianos, if they can put it into an entry level one like the CE220?

The whole "home DP" market seems to be crazy mixed up with such a confusing array of selections of DP's with varying components and features that don't seem to make any sense to me as a consumer. It would seem to make more sense, from an "economy of scale" perspective, for a DP manufacturer to limit the variety of internal actions/sound/features used in its models to maybe just two (better and best--forget the bottom lines))and just vary the externals (stage piano, vs. console, compact home piano, etc.) Wouldn't that allow them to keep the prices more competitive, while offering the consumer a better value?

For instance, I don't understand why the lower end models don't all include a large variety of instrument sounds, several recording tracks, some drum rythms and usb ports? How much more could that possibly add to the cost if they added it on to all models, given the state of technology in this day and age?


I am just venting a little here, because we can't seem to find a DP that has all the features we want with out paying close to $3000 (for a home dp or by the time we would add a wood stand and speakers to a stage piano). Maybe we are in niche market that hasn't been addressed yet by a quality DP manufacturer: consumers who want a quality DP as a second piano for home use. (DP manufacturers take NOTE!) That means we want lots of digital-only type features (or why else get a digitial when you already have an acoustic?), a sturdy, reasonably attractive stand, built-in speakers, and good action and sound. AND we don't want to have to pay for a furniture cabinet that looks just like the acoustic sitting in the living room.
Just my 2 cents.

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#1829030 - 01/21/12 12:58 PM Re: Any info re: the new Kawai CE220? [Re: Fun2Learn]
gvfarns Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/16/07
Posts: 3480
Loc: Pennsylvania
I feel you on this.

Also frustrating, no one makes a speaker set that is optimal for a digital piano in a home environment. There are studio monitors and there is Hi Fi (with the receiver and stuff) and then there are public performance speakers. Nothing right for the niche.

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#1829243 - 01/21/12 06:44 PM Re: Any info re: the new Kawai CE220? [Re: Fun2Learn]
Stephen Lacefield Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/29/06
Posts: 194
Loc: St. Louis, MO
I am at the NAMM show and played the CE220. Even though Kawai claims it has 88-key Piano Sampling, it sounds very much like the old Harmonic Imaging sample.
_________________________
Representing Shigeru Kawai, Kawai, Hailun, Pearl River, Kawai Digital Pianos, Samick Digitals, Roland Digitals, & Lowrey Organs
St. Louis Metro Area
www.lacefieldmusic.com
find us on Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/lacefieldmusic

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#1829288 - 01/21/12 08:16 PM Re: Any info re: the new Kawai CE220? [Re: Fun2Learn]
gvfarns Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/16/07
Posts: 3480
Loc: Pennsylvania
The old harmonic imaging sample had 88 key sampling. At least the one in my MP8 did. Did you mean to say that it is purported to have progressive harmonic imaging, but it still sounds like the original harmonic imaging?

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#1829297 - 01/21/12 08:33 PM Re: Any info re: the new Kawai CE220? [Re: Stephen Lacefield]
Kawai James Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 8822
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Originally Posted By: Stephen Lacefield
I am at the NAMM show and played the CE220. Even though Kawai claims it has 88-key Piano Sampling, it sounds very much like the old Harmonic Imaging sample.


That's an interesting observation Stephen.

However, if you were to play an older instrument with the previous generation sound technology, I'm confident you would be able to hear the difference in quality.

Kind regards,
James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#1829301 - 01/21/12 08:36 PM Re: Any info re: the new Kawai CE220? [Re: gvfarns]
Kawai James Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 8822
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Originally Posted By: gvfarns
The old harmonic imaging sample had 88 key sampling. At least the one in my MP8 did.


88-key piano sampling was introduced with the ES6. Since this time, all new Kawai DPs* have featured 88-key sampling as standard. Prior to this time, however, no Kawai DPs featured the sound technology.

* except re-badged models: EP3 & KDP80.

Kind regards,
James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

Top
#1829407 - 01/21/12 11:44 PM Re: Any info re: the new Kawai CE220? [Re: Fun2Learn]
ZoeCalgary Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/01/11
Posts: 748
Loc: Calgary Alberta
Fun2learn, I totally agree with you on this lack of digital features on dp's with a good action. Today I went shopping and came back empty handed! I am so frustrated! One place told me $2600 plus 5% tax for the MP6! Unbelievable! It sells for less than $1500 in the US and the CDN dollar is almost at par. Then I thought I can be satisfied with the CN23 and another dealer refused to honor his price that I had seen a couple of months ago even though he had this in stock! I came away from both of these dealers feeling so upset with this piano buying business!! One was listening and
Price jacking and the other wasn't even listening to me at
All!! It's almost like they don't want anybody to buy their stuff!

I want a good digital at a good price point! I don't want to feel like I'm being taken for all I'm worth and then some! Sure make a profit but 100% increase in price from the US is crazy!

I can tell you this. Neither of these dealers are likely to see me again!
_________________________
Preparing Grade 6 RCM.


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#1830104 - 01/23/12 07:48 AM Availability [Re: Fun2Learn]
Csillag Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/22/10
Posts: 249
Loc: Hungary, Europe
Dear James,

Any info about the availability of this new DP in Europe?

(I am asking this, because as far as I know, the CE200 was an US-only model.)

About the price: how does this model relate to CA13? (I am not asking about the features, but price only.)

Thank you for explaining:

Kristof

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#1830112 - 01/23/12 08:03 AM Re: Availability [Re: Fun2Learn]
Kawai James Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 8822
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Hello Kristof,

Originally Posted By: Csillag
Any info about the availability of this new DP in Europe?


Not that I'm aware of - I think it's rather unlikely given the popularity of the CA13.

Originally Posted By: Csillag
About the price: how does this model relate to CA13?


- CE200: $1700 (Musician's Friend)
- CA13: €1555 (Thomann)

Kind regards.
James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

Top
#1830116 - 01/23/12 08:19 AM Re: Any info re: the new Kawai CE220? [Re: ZoeCalgary]
gnembon Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/14/11
Posts: 32
Loc: Canada, NS
Originally Posted By: ZoeCalgary
Fun2learn, I totally agree with you on this lack of digital features on dp's with a good action. Today I went shopping and came back empty handed! I am so frustrated! One place told me $2600 plus 5% tax for the MP6! Unbelievable! It sells for less than $1500 in the US and the CDN dollar is almost at par. Then I thought I can be satisfied with the CN23 and another dealer refused to honor his price that I had seen a couple of months ago even though he had this in stock! I came away from both of these dealers feeling so upset with this piano buying business!! One was listening and
Price jacking and the other wasn't even listening to me at
All!! It's almost like they don't want anybody to buy their stuff!

I want a good digital at a good price point! I don't want to feel like I'm being taken for all I'm worth and then some! Sure make a profit but 100% increase in price from the US is crazy!

I can tell you this. Neither of these dealers are likely to see me again!


Contact some bigger dealers. In a small local dealer, I got a quote for $4800 (sic) for MP10 while Merriam Music from Toronto was willing to sell it for me for 2800+120 shipping. At the end - I decided to go to the states and get it myself for 2500.

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#1830118 - 01/23/12 08:23 AM Re: Any info re: the new Kawai CE220? [Re: gnembon]
Kawai James Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 8822
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Originally Posted By: gnembon
In a small local dealer, I got a quote for $4800 (sic)...


You're kidding, right?
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

Top
#1830140 - 01/23/12 10:12 AM Re: Any info re: the new Kawai CE220? [Re: Fun2Learn]
ZoeCalgary Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/01/11
Posts: 748
Loc: Calgary Alberta
Sorry to the OP and don't mean to hijack their thread but yes I believe $4800 was quoted! Given I got quoted $2600 for the mp6. I just don't know what to do. I really like the Kawai Dp's but I'd like to pay a fair price!!

KawaiJames my husband suggested I contact Kawai directly to let them know what is happening. I don't think this would help any nor who to contact. Is there somebody to contact to talk about shady dealings? It's like the prices are whatever the dealer feels like, then when I actually want to buy they raise the price again!

Again sorry to the original poster but my frustration is at an all time high!!
_________________________
Preparing Grade 6 RCM.


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#1830163 - 01/23/12 11:25 AM Re: Any info re: the new Kawai CE220? [Re: gvfarns]
Csillag Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/22/10
Posts: 249
Loc: Hungary, Europe
Originally Posted By: gvfarns
Originally Posted By: Kawai James
The keyboard action and most of the other specifications remain unchanged from the CE220


Really? Trying to get rid of old stock of AWA PRO II, perhaps?


If that is the case, then I have a better idea about how to solve this "problem":

why not just dump them into cheap midi controllers?

You don't even need to spend that much time (or money) on the design; just remove (most of) the internal electronics of the MP8II - and release the rest around 1000 - 1200 EUR.

That would be an instant win.

(OK, I must stop dreaming now.)

Kristof

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#1830239 - 01/23/12 01:16 PM Re: Any info re: the new Kawai CE220? [Re: ZoeCalgary]
gnembon Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/14/11
Posts: 32
Loc: Canada, NS
Originally Posted By: ZoeCalgary
Sorry to the OP and don't mean to hijack their thread but yes I believe $4800 was quoted! Given I got quoted $2600 for the mp6. I just don't know what to do. I really like the Kawai Dp's but I'd like to pay a fair price!!

KawaiJames my husband suggested I contact Kawai directly to let them know what is happening. I don't think this would help any nor who to contact. Is there somebody to contact to talk about shady dealings? It's like the prices are whatever the dealer feels like, then when I actually want to buy they raise the price again!

Again sorry to the original poster but my frustration is at an all time high!!

Calm down :-) . As I told, try in different places. I know that at least Merriam is willing to ship and sell for 'normal' prices. And it is local, local I mean, Toronto, and I am from Nova Scotia.

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#1830251 - 01/23/12 01:36 PM Re: Any info re: the new Kawai CE220? [Re: Fun2Learn]
ZoeCalgary Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/01/11
Posts: 748
Loc: Calgary Alberta
Yes I am frustrated it's true. I will check Merriam. It never occurred to me to check Canadian online retailers. (well actually I checked the ones I am aware of just didn't know about the one you mentioned. I am excited there might be hope for an mo6 in my future yet! Thanks fir the tip!
_________________________
Preparing Grade 6 RCM.


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#1830441 - 01/23/12 04:40 PM Re: Any info re: the new Kawai CE220? [Re: ZoeCalgary]
Kawai James Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 8822
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Originally Posted By: ZoeCalgary
KawaiJames my husband suggested I contact Kawai directly to let them know what is happening. I don't think this would help any nor who to contact. Is there somebody to contact to talk about shady dealings?


There are email addresses to relevant departments on the Kawai America website.

Kind regards,
James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

Top
#1830443 - 01/23/12 04:41 PM Re: Any info re: the new Kawai CE220? [Re: Csillag]
Kawai James Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 8822
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Originally Posted By: Csillag
If that is the case, then I have a better idea about how to solve this "problem":

why not just dump them into cheap midi controllers?

You don't even need to spend that much time (or money) on the design; just remove (most of) the internal electronics of the MP8II - and release the rest around 1000 - 1200 EUR.

That would be an instant win.

(OK, I must stop dreaming now.)

Kristof


That's an interesting suggestion.
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

Top
#1830482 - 01/23/12 05:30 PM Re: Any info re: the new Kawai CE220? [Re: Fun2Learn]
Fun2Learn Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/14/11
Posts: 109
This is a very interesting discussion--(don't worry about "hijacking" it--I don't mind!)I just wanted to share that AZpianowholesale.com had offered me a great price on both the MP6 and the CE200 back in DEcember (then we decided to wait until the NAMM show to see what new DP's were going to come out.)His price, including shipping and no tax, was the lowest I found anywhere, but you have to call or email--he isn't allowed to advertise prices lower than Kawai's "lowest advertised price" for each model. By the way, he has posted quite a few sound/song samples of the MP6 on his review blog. Has anyone ever bought anything from him before? Just curiuos.

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#1830485 - 01/23/12 05:30 PM Re: Any info re: the new Kawai CE220? [Re: Fun2Learn]
Fun2Learn Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/14/11
Posts: 109
This is a very interesting discussion--(don't worry about "hijacking" it--I don't mind!)I just wanted to share that AZpianowholesale.com had offered me a great price on both the MP6 and the CE200 back in DEcember (then we decided to wait until the NAMM show to see what new DP's were going to come out.)His price, including shipping and no tax, was the lowest I found anywhere, but you have to call or email--he isn't allowed to advertise prices lower than Kawai's "lowest advertised price" for each model. By the way, he has posted quite a few sound/song samples of the MP6 on his review blog. Has anyone ever bought anything from him before? Just curiuos.

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#1830799 - 01/24/12 05:08 AM Re: Any info re: the new Kawai CE220? [Re: Kawai James]
Csillag Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/22/10
Posts: 249
Loc: Hungary, Europe
Originally Posted By: Kawai James
Originally Posted By: Csillag
If that is the case, then I have a better idea about how to solve this "problem":

why not just dump them into cheap midi controllers?

You don't even need to spend that much time (or money) on the design; just remove (most of) the internal electronics of the MP8II - and release the rest around 1000 - 1200 EUR.

That would be an instant win.

(OK, I must stop dreaming now.)

Kristof


That's an interesting suggestion.


By the way, if it's not a closely guarded secret, could you please give us some insight about how Kawai makes it's decision about product development? Are you doing marketing research to test new ideas?

Would it help if you someone quickly collected hundreds of subscriptions encouraging Kawai to produce a AWA-PRO-II / RM3 based midi controller?

Thank you:

Kristof

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A220-A440 Temperament recording
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07/12/14 03:34 PM
Yamaha CLP-430 or Kawai CA-15
by ilkergoksen
07/12/14 02:08 PM
Just wanted to say thank you
by bobamser
07/12/14 01:49 PM
Roland HP-506 vs Yamaha CLP-545
by bossman
07/12/14 12:42 PM
Baldwin Artist Series...What does that mean?
by Piano Practice
07/12/14 10:54 AM
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