I want to learn another language! Which do you think would be the most reasonable for me, and why? Especially since I am someone who wants to be a choral conductor, probably study abroad for a while, and also keep up my piano playing, it would probably behoove me very much do do so.

I have four possible ideas, and some justification for them:

-German: Such a beautiful language, and lots of amazing choral repertoire is in German, from Bach to Per Norgard. This seems very reasonable for someone who wants to be a choral conductor
-Spanish: I already learned a bit of Spanish in high school, so I'd already have somewhere to go from
-Mandarin Chinese: Challenge myself a bit more
-Korean: Challenge myself a bit more, minus having to deal with multiple tones :p

So, to the Americans on this board, do you know other languages? And to non-Americans, I'm sure you know other languages, so what would be in your opinion useful for me and why?

I'm just hoping for some neat discussion on this topic. I really wish they mandated American children learning another language starting at a young age...

Hmm, I'd go with German in order to understand fully what Beethoven means in his scores. :P

And Mandarin, but I'm biased: I already speak it. Soon enough, the entire world's going to need to know it anyway. You might as well get a head start!

With both English and German under your belt, you'd be covering a lot in the way of being able to fully understand much of the choral repertoire, but I think it would take you a long time to get to the point where you would fully appreciate the fine distinctions that may be important between the original language and a good translation.

Similarly with Italian if you ever tended in the direction of opera; many good translations of texts exist and, of course, you've already been schooled in the Italian terminology that is almost universally used as the lingua franca of music study and performance. Still, you'd need considerable time to get to the point where your knowledge of the language surpasses what may already exist in translation.

I'm not so sure how much a "working knowledge" of a foreign language is going to help in your hoped-for career in choral conducting; I think you'd have to develop well beyond that stage for it to have great practical value.

It might be interesting to do some research on good or great contemporary choral conductors to find out how many foreign languages some of them may have mastered, and how that mastery may have helped in their careers.

All this said, of course, there is no denying the mentally and culturally broadening aspects of learning a foreign language in which case the study of almost any foreign language will provide.

Regards,

You've made a similar point 3 times in your post! IMO, it's not really an argument for or against anything - merely a statement of fact that it takes a considerable effort and time to be proficient in a foreign language. I would say that even though it will take time, the sooner you get started on it, the sooner it may benefit you. I didn't start learning a foreign language until I was 25 (German), by the time I was 28 I had a scholarship to study music in Austria - and that included a language test to ensure i was capable of writing a thesis and understanding my classes. It's certainly quite an attainable task as long as you have the right motivation. Having a good working knowledge of spoken German is certainly a lot better than having nothing if you are a choir director. If for nothing else, you really need authentic pronunciation to sing in a language - even if you aren't totally on top of the meaning of all words that you are singing.

What's more, once you learn one language it is successively easier to pick up the next one. I say, get started!

German is an incredibly useful language... German music and if you want to go and study in Germany

I know English, French, Spanish and Portuguese

Not Greek! I mean not only it's damn difficult, but it's useless... plus it will be lost in oblivion in a little while along with the country itself! ;P

Greman, Italian or French is one of the obvious choices...

Then for me I'd say Japanesse, not only because I'm fascinated by their culture, but also because they are champions of the world: Coping with everything, dealing with amazing problems and getting back on their feet in no time! They really are a stunning bunch of 'little people' (<- joke...).

German is good to know. If you love chorale music now, you will only love it more if you understand what they are singing! Someone played me Mahler's "Um Mitternacht" yesterday, with Kathleen Ferrier, as I read the libretto from the CD cover, and, gosh, it was almost overwhelming. Sort of embarrassing too because I had to reach for a tissue. First time I heard that song. I didn't get an early start on languages either, but it has given me enormous pleasure to have raspy-voice sing-alongs with Bach's Magnificat, and oratorios, and Schubert's German Mass, and Handel's Messiah (oh wait, that's English already), and "Eugene Onegin"... So I think you could identify with the love-to-sing part. You don't have to be completely fluent, but if you know what is going on when they are singing, it helps. Even to understand something 20% seems to open a door of appreciation, that you don't get at all with 0%. Good for you to want to learn, too. I also wish foreign language learning were a normal part of education and life for people in the U.S. I am thinking I would like to learn Italian so I can belt out "Che gelida manina" even though I am not really the right gender or vocal range to sing that, but who cares.

Isn't Eugene Onegin in Russian?

I vote for german too. Chinese is a good one too. Russian is also interesting.

Orange Soda King, I can't advise you on which language you should learn. However, you also asked what other languages people speak; I can report that I speak French. I was fortunate enough to start studying it in 7th grade. I have smatterings of Latin, German, Spanish, and Koine Greek. I can read mathematics in Portuguese. The Latin was studied in school; the others I picked up after graduation.

I've been in a chorus for two years and so far we've sung in English, Latin, German, Old Church Slavonic, Taiwanese, and Japanese. And even Greek, Nikolas! (OK, pretty much only Christos Anesti, for visiting a Greek Orthodox church, but still, Greek .)

I am fluent in Greek and it has helped me tremendously during college and my career - and in speaking to my sister without anyone else knowing what we were saying.....

I vote for Spanish, purely for practical, obvious reasons (including you should be able to get sufficient practice in!)

**well, maybe not so obvious to non-Americans...

Italian and German should be the most useful languages for choir work. I second French for beauty and cultural relevance, Japanese as the most interesting and Korean the easiest asian language (easy alphabet, no symbols for practical purposes)

One thing, beware: German is very hard and not very logical! There are 3 articles to learn, one for every substantive (male,female,neutral) and for the conjugation, there are almost more exceptions than rules. Simple past and conjunctive forms are extremely difficult, although they aren't used very often (except in literature and music, haha). Also, most english native speakers don't seem to get the sentence structure.

I need to learn Spanish because in Texas with our open border to the south we are being inundated by Spanish speaking people and many of them can't speak English.

I have a neighbor has to have his daughter translate when he wants to speak to me.

I'm in Australia which is closer to China than the USA or Europe, so I am learning Mandarin slowly (on and off for the last 4 years), more for the intellectual challenge than the goal of becoming fluent in it (which I realistically realize is unlikely to happen). The Chinese people that I have met in China are very intrigued by any Westerner who wants to learn their language. I posted here last year some observations on going to concerts in Beijing.

To answer your question directly, OSK, I'd suggest German because it will be more immediately useful to you with respect to your future musical career. If that's not enough, then add in Chinese, because there's a huge audience there!

REALLY?!?!?! That's impressive if you're not Greek. Πώς και έτσι; Εννοώ γιατί; Μου φαίνεται παράξενο...

sorry for the Greek everyone... It must seem all Greek to you!

One point that has only been hinted at. Pick a language that someone close to you is also interested in learning (or already knows). If you don't practice what you learn you won't retain it. Not very different from learning piano in that regard.

I took four years of high school German and a semester in college, at this point all I remember is "ein bischen."

Just a little nitpicking: Per Norgard, or Per Nørgård as his name is spelled in his native language Danish, is not from Germany, but from Denmark. Although there has been a heavy German influence on the Danish language, you would not understand Danish, if you learn German.

OT: Since Denmark, is a very small country, foreign languages are obligatory in Danish schools. Everybody is exposed to Swedish, English and German, and if you go to high school, you have to get exposed to one extra language typically French, Spanish, or Russian. Many also have Latin.

and then even with wrong spelling, that's sad sorry, take it easy there's some truth in what you say, it's definitely easier to learn languages with interested friends, but you can always find language partners and succeed in learning a language alone.

If you want to be a choral director, German is useful.
But if for traveling purpose, French is very useful. Because most of French do not want to communicate other than in French within France.

Faux !

No need to get your hackles up Landorrano, this is Ronald Steinway who's posting.

OSK, should you decide upon German, might I first direct you to Mark Twain's The Awful German Language? It will help illustrate some of the difficulties one will encounter.

Well, I'm probably being repetitive now, but German and Italian will clearly benefit you the most for chorale works.

Spanish is useful in general

Mandarin will become useful when China dominates the world

Korean? Not very useful, but if you have a lot of Korean friends and want to teach in Korea of something go ahead and learn it! Or if you go to some technology field, Korean is useful

You could just learn all of them!!!!!!

Be careful, "American wants to learn another language" might get one on the list at Homeland Security !

Seriously, though ...



I agree.

As a professional musician, one should speak several languages easily, and have a familiarity with several others. One should have an close aquaintance with the music of those languages ... and not only the "classical" music. One should read and write in those languages, be able to make jokes, flirt.

I remember seeing Conlon during the Van Cliburn competition, speaking in Russian and Italian with the players. As it should be.

What a treasure, what wealth, languages are.

If you are a native English speaker you really ought to speak and read in at least one latin language. You will see that it is a way to really understand your mother tongue.

I put my vote in for French.

You know, in French there is an expression "for intérieur". "For" comes from "forum", meaning tribunal or judgement. "For intérieur" is your most intimate, you innermost thoughts or feelings. It is different from your conscience, which is kind of a person apart. I don't believe that there exists an equivalent expression in English, so speaking only English and living without a "for intérieur" is kind of rough.

(Dang! I can't use a Greek font on this forum, how'd you do that?!) In answer to your question, not strange at all- I am Greek (Dad from Corfu, mom from Athens), but I was born in Ohio! ha!
(yiayia lived with us and she didn't speak any English...)

I wish you the best of luck. The huge problem with the good ol' USA is we're essentially land-locked from exposure to other languages. (Other than Spanish which would be the logical answer to "easier to maintain fluency because others around me speak it" but not necessarily useful otherwise.)

Ah, memories! Two years of High School German and no where to practice left naught but vague shadows of declension and gender. German's an excellent language for English speakers as it has the same "barking dog" cadence we're already comfortable with. Great cussing too.

My two years of college French have held up a tiny bit better, but only with the reading. Also very useful as a lot of original and important literature is available in French. Unfortunately it's thoroughly useless when you're angry, so you'll still need the German.

Two years of living in Korea brought about 10 years worth of frustration with failure to learn more than the most basic phrases. I suggest Hangul only for those who will be living in Korea. The Korean grammar makes no sense at all to speakers of any other language except perhaps Hungarian or Finnish. What it doesn't have in "tone" is doubly complicated by a bizarre number of vowels and its poetically random sentence structure.

Mandarin seems an excellent choice. The grammar makes wonderful sense (from what I've gleaned), plus those instructions that come with everything we buy will make more sense read BEFORE passing through a "Mandarin to Menglish" translator.

Korean grammar is easy, just like Japanese and most other asian grammars. There are only 2 time forms (present and past), no articles, and there is almost no conjugation! And Hangul is almost as small as the Roman alphabet, no comparison to Japanese or Chinese Symbols, which you need to learn thousands of. Those are tough.

Interesting. I worked adjacent to interpreters who spoke Mandarin and Korean. Both agreed that Mandarin was much, much easier for English speakers to pick up. Do you yourself speak Korean?

No, but i learned quite a bit of Japanese, and it's very similar to Korean. A friend of mine learns Korean and it's much easier than Chinese for him. There's no question in my mind that forgoing your learned intonation and learning a few thousand symbols (Chinese) is much harder than Korean. I can't imagine Korean was harder for the interpreters, maybe it was their first asian language, and they probably didn't learn Chinese script.

Welsh. No need to worry over vowels as there is a mysterious and frightening lack of them.

Imagine learning 2000 symbols like this, and there are more complicated ones. Then you can start reading a newspaper in Chinese. (or Japanese. In Korean, these characters are practically unused.)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_characters