I was just at the piano exploring and thinking about this. My suggestion, if it's a contemporary song listen to the bass guitar part it will most likely be playing the root note of the chord and should give you a hint. Also check the melody notes against the chord. If there's an A in there it might also be a hint. I hope that helps.

Captain: You'd need to know the chords of the song to play it?
take Autumn Leaves..on that sheet he has..there's no way in heck I can remember that,
I probably if i fooled around with it I can figure out some chords I know that its
a sad song so that tells me its a minor chord so I'd fudge around and figured it out,
but if I knew about chord progressions, and was able to use my ear more..ah then! but until ..I have to rely on the "sheet"

Autumn Leaves

Em, Em9, Am7, D7, GM7, G6, Am6, B7, Em
Bridge: B+, Em, B7, Em, Em7, Em, D7, D, G
Cdim(iv) Cdim(I) B7, Em, Em9, Em
A, Am7, B7, Em, Am7, Am6, Em9

I have been peeking at this thread for a couple of days, and somehow it has morphed from fake books or lead sheets into "playing by ear". So be it.

Brent brings up a very good point, about which I see little written here on the forum - an exercise we used to call EAR TRAINING. If anyone is already covering this topic here, please forgive the redundancy.

EAR TRAINING is a very similar exercise, or dicipline, to sight reading. Most successful efforts start off with dictation of very simple melodies (for melodic dictation), and very simple chord progressions (for harmonic dictation).

As simple melodies (and chord progressions) are mastered, they form the building blocks for more complex melodies and progressions, in the self-same way that accomplishing any other musical discipline is additive.

With an effective program and consistent effort (and a decent ear), one no longer needs to "guess" at the melody, OR the harmony. One simply learns to recognize BOTH as one listens to the piece in question.

There are many creative ways to accomplish ear training, and I shall be pleased to elaborate if anyone is interested.

Ed

I think it sort of morphed naturally as these things are inherently connected, and also because the terms used mean different things to different folks.
I for one would love you to elaborate on ear training, and I feel confident others will too.
Thanks.

Ear training typically starts with the aural identification of diatonic intervals. Someone else says, "we are in the key of C major, and the starting note is C." He/she then plays DO - MI, and you respond "C - E" (or solfeggio is fine, too) .

I'll be back for more abuse after dinner.

Ed

Lo presti, I totally dont understand what you mean, who abused you?
Everything you was saying made sense till you said that, did I miss something?

The trick is to listen to the bass note, or the most bottom note if it's just a piano piece. Most likely that is the root of the chord. Then, it's a matter of figuring out if the basic chord is altered to include 7ths and such. With one main exception noted below.


Usually this is done to create smooth bass motion. If you hear a note in the bass but it's not the root, it's most likely either the third or the fifth of a chord. So for an E bass note, if it's not an E chord, check a C chord and an A chord. Not foolproof, but knowing what is typical at least gets you down the right path.

Bob Newbie, I'm not quite sure what you are asking, but, yes, you need to know the chords of a song to play it. Working out the chords can be a challenge. (I also enjoy it). There is nothing wrong with using chord charts or sheets. Who can memorise the chord sequence for every song? One thing I am, thankfully, blessed with, is the ability to quickly learn and to remember melodies. But my repertoire book is a collection of sheets with lyrics and the chords written above them (old guitar player style).

Becoming familiar with common chords patterns makes the task of working out the chords easier. Internet searches are good for a starting point but, like a lot of sheet music, are not always accurate and you need to put in some effort to improve them. I'm not saying I am always right when it comes to the chords I work out but I have been doing it for a long time and feel comfortable with it.

I hope that helps.

Regarding playing by ear, don't forget about the Circle of Fifths:

http://www.angelfire.com/fl4/moneychords/circle.html

http://www.angelfire.com/fl4/moneychords/circleprogressions.html

I'm aware of the circle but have not learnt it/internalised it or worked out how to use it in my playing. But the chord sequences at

http://www.angelfire.com/fl4/moneychords/circleprogressions.html

look very interesting.

Circle of Fifths: http://www.angelfire.com/fl4/moneychords/circleprogressions.html


B-E-A-D-G-C Cycle


This cycle travels counterclockwise from “B” to “C.” The “B7-E7-A7-D7-G7-C” and “Bm-E7-Am-Dm-G7-C” progressions are two common types of this cycle. The first type is called a cycle of dominant seventh chords. An example of this type of cycle that uses secondary dominant sevenths is the verse progression to the Chordettes’ 1954 hit Mister Sandman shown below. A secondary dominant is a chord that serves as the “V” of another. For example, in the “B7-E7-A7-D7-G7-C” progression the “B7” is the “V” of the “E7” chord and the “E7” is the “V” of the “A7” chord. Similarly, the “A7” is the “V” of the “D7” chord and the “D7” is the “V” of the “G7” chord.


C / / / B7 / / / E7 / / / A7 / / /
D7 / / / G7 / / / C / / / Ab7 / G7 /



An example of the second cycle type that uses both primary and secondary chords is the A section to the 1965 standard The Shadow Of Your Smile shown below.


Bm7 / / / E7b9 / / / Am7 / / / / / / /
Dm7 / / / G7 / / / Cmaj7 / / / / / / /

No abuse so far - it's simply a phrase.

So, where were we?
EAR TRAINING

It requires two people - perhaps a teacher and a student. It can eventually be recorded media, and the student. Here, because many do not have formal teachers, let us use the terms PLAYER and LISTENER. It is very important to start out SIMPLE. So the PLAYER does not need to be terribly skilled - he/she simply needs to know the names of notes on an instrument, and be accurate.

An excellent way to start is for the LISTENER to simply name (or write down) the notes in various diatonic, two-note, arpeggiated intervals being sounded by the PLAYER. The LISTENER may chose to do this using numbered degrees of the scale, or the actual names of the notes, or even solfeggio.

EXAMPLE: (Let’s work with C major for ease of reference.) The PLAYER sits at the piano (or picks up his kazu), and establishes C major as the tone center by playing a C major triad or a C major scale, or both.. Next, the PLAYER plays and sustains a C that is somewhere in the middle section of the keyboard, saying, “This is C”. The PLAYER then plays and sustains a second (higher) note in the C major scale octave (let us use F for our example), and asks, “What note is this?”

If necessary, the LISTENER can sing the scale notes ascending from C until he/she arrives on F, and hopefully, recognizes that he/she has “arrived”. He/she might respond. “C and F” (or 1 and 4, or Do and Fa). Like with anything else musical, practice and repetition brings results. As the LISTENER gains accuracy, the team starts to SLOWLY add complexity:

[1] Intervals BELOW the starting note
{2] Intervals larger than one octave
[3] Minor tonalities
[4] Two successive intervals, then 3, 4, etc.
[5] Introduce non-diatonic notes
[6] Introduce some simple melodies, and have the LISTENER transcribe them.
[7] Sounding both (all 3, all 4) notes of the various intervals simultaneously (This is starting to sound like building chords!)

I believe most can see the “building” process. I shall not belabor all the steps to moving to chord progressions, except to advise that those must also start very SIMPLE. Diatonic, start with two triads in root position:
PLAYER: “ Here is the C major tonality”. “This is the C major triad.” “What is this (second) triad?”

As the LISTENER’S ear continues to build, the complexity can build, following the same general pattern as with intervals.

This is a thumb-nail sketch of ear training.
Ed

Thanks, Elssa, but my problem is (and it's no reflection on you) that my eyes start to glaze over at this point. When I say I have learnt more theory since starting piano (than guitar) I've learnt more in a practical sense (eg. "now what is the major seventh note to add for C? Ah yes, B"). I just need to buckle down and learn it, I know, I know ...

To anyone,
I am primarily a vocalist and I'll be using fake/real books. I know my chords, etc. from years of playing guitar but where can I learn some patterns and strategies to string together arpeggios and the like?

I can just bang the triad wtih the right hand and root note/walk upp/downs with the left but that gets old. I can do 1-5-1(8) in the left and then maybe a 9th(add2) chord or 11th(ad4) in ascending order in the right (for an arpeggio), but is that it? How else can I come up with different arrangement stategies/patterns?

i'm also interested in trying to figure out some left and right hand patterns for boogie woogie/blues types of stuff.

I'm really not asking for particular techniques here (because it would probably take you too much time) although that would be grat.
What I'm looking for is some sort of training manual or study method that will move me beyong just banging "block" chords.
(I can read a bit and play by ear.)

Thanks.

Tuna,

Just like with guitar, much of what happens behind the vocalist depends upon the style in which you want to set the piece, and its tempo. If the style is hard-driving, or up-tempo, or Latin; then the piano will be very busy, harmonically and rhythmically. If the style is "cool" or a ballad, then the piano needs to be sparse, with MELODIC colorations.

In either case, block chords, either punctuated or arpeggiated, are very useful. A common physical technique, in the absence of a bass, is to develop a bass line in your left hand, and punctuate the "most important" chord notes in the right hand.

Do a lot of listening with VERY BIG EARS to recordings of the vocalists you prefer, and let your ear be your guide to recreating that when you play.

That should get you started.

Ed

Just came across this thread so hope its not too late to contribute.

In the UK Fake books were more commonly known as Busking books though I think the American word "Fake " is more commonly used now. Its absolutely the same thing though , a collection of tunes with the melody written out and chord symbols, quiet often the accuracy of the chords is a bit suspect. Busking (in the UK) also means to play without music ("busk it")so having a book is a bit of an anachronism. These books are often used on gigs where you might get asked for a tune you don't have an arrangement for or know. Actually experienced musicians doing this sort of work tend to know every tune ever written!!!
Thirty years ago I worked as a trumpet player doing theatre, clubs and dance gigs and on the dance gigs we used arrangements most of the time but sometimes we would do a waltz or something where everyone would take turns playing a chorus of whatever tune we fancied. The standrad procedure was to hold your fingers up to indicate the key - up for # and down for b - so two fingers held in the air would mean I am going to play a tune in D and the rhythm section would just play a turnaround to D from whatever key they were playing and pick up what ever tune you started to play. The guys I played with seemed to know every tune or could at least busk/fake anything convincingly, no doubt from years of experience.
In the UK the word busking is also used for playing/performing in the street for change.

Thanks, jazztpt - that's interesting to know. We use "busking" to mean playing in the streets for tips here, too. Here in Santa Fe you have to have a busking license to do it :), but I hadn't the term "busking book" before. The bank I'm in will have to try the round-robin waltz trick one of these days. How fun to have played in a dance band.

Cathy

When I played solo (voice and acoustic guitar) in restaurants I used to have a few busking books and I'd circulate them among the patrons to pick a song from, then I'd sit at or near their table and sing it for them. It was a lot of fun. People love it and will sing along and such.

That's interesting about the "busking books". Last week, I played in an open mic/jam session at a local restaurant, sometimes along with a professional singer/guitarist and a ukelele player - great fun! I'd brought along a fake book, and we picked out some songs we all knew and liked. Sometimes we had to change the key, though, because we didn't all like the key of the song in the book, so we all played by ear as well as by lead sheet that evening. Turned out to be a nice variety of music (Duke Ellington, Hoagy Carmichael, Gershwin, etc.) Then, the uke player got up and played/sang some real oldies - Ain't She Sweet, One Meatball, etc., songs not found in your typical fake book.

So, just wondering, what's everybody's favorite fake/busking book? I think mine is "The Ultimate Jazz Fakebook", "C" Edition" (over 625 Standards and Jazz classics).