Hi, I posted recently about deciding between a couple of Kawais. I pretty sure I am going to go with a new RX 3 Blak. I am in the western US. The price being offered is $22,100, and that includes delivery and one free in home tuning. I have a Yamaha upright trade in that I am getting $3500 for, so the final price is $18,600 plus sales tax (tax is on the 18,600 price).

Those of you who have bought this model recently, is this comparable to what you are paying? Initially I was going to buy an RX 2 to save myself about 5K, but based on my research this seems like an incredible deal. Almost 43% off Fine's SMP. However, we only have one Kawai dealer in town, and I haven't been able to find actual prices of new RX 3's online, so it's always hard to know how good of a deal it really is. But the fact that I am getting an additional $3500 for my upright trade in seems too good to pass up.

Thanks for any thought.

It sounds like a good price compared to what I was quoted 3-4 years ago (and that wasn't for a Blak model). I take it you like the piano itself??

Yeah, I've tried a lot of brands in that similar and lower price range, and definitely like this the best. The biggest dilemma has been Rx2 vs Rx3, but the sound of the RX3 combined with a no interest financing for the difference makes the RX3 my likely choice.

That seems like an unusually good deal - if you can afford it and love the piano, I wouldn't wait!

The poster clearly understand that this is a good deal (IF indeed is real). Therefore he is not verifying if he got a fair price or not. If this is not the motivation of this post what is it?

As we all know this is not the first time a competing dealer will create a post such as this one.

I would like to ask the original poster to show good faith and display the name of the dealer who offered the piano at this incredible price.

I am not a dealer. The motivation of the post is to help confirm my decision that this is the right piano for me. I am not trying to verify if this is a fair price. I know it's at least a "fair" price. I am trying to verify that this is a price too good to pass up, and it sounds like it is.

It seems like an incredible deal, but I have little to compare it to. It is difficult to find what new pianos actually sell for online, and I only have one dealer close to me that sells new Kawais. Sure, we have MSRP and many suggested prices, but we all know these aren't what most pianos are actually sold for.

I have only been in the market for a new piano for a few weeks, and had little knowledge of piano prices prior to that. So, if my ignorance makes it sound like I have ulterior motives I apologize.

My only motivation is to get feedback from this forum, especially from those that have recently purchased an RX 3, that will hopefully confirm my decision to go to the dealer tomorrow and buy the piano. I have waffled back and forth whether the RX3 is worth the extra 5K compared to the RX2. If I got feedback that it was a good price, but nothing that special, then I would likely save some money and buy the RX 2 instead. But it seems that most of you are confirming that this is an incredible deal, one that I shouldn't pass up.

I'll post pictures once I get it, hopefully later this week.

So are the RX3 and RX3 Blak different models with different price points? Or are all the current Kawai RX series "Blak"? Thanks for any clarification!

I think your statement above shows that if you know the price is fair there is no reason to post it (IF it is true).



You sound smart enough to figure out how to use the search engine on this site.



It is great that you're trying to be Mr. inocent nice guy. Please show your good will and tell us the name of the dealer.

It looks like a really good deal to me. Looking forward to the result.

Price seems good. To some that might seem like a large % off, but I've found that it's not uncommon for dealers to be very reasonable with Kawais. You just have to find a dealer that's willing to negotiate.

If you can afford the RX3, do it The RX2 is a nice piano, but the RX3 is another step up--it's longer and should have better bass. Let us know how it turns out

I don't know why you are being jumped all over. I bought the RX-3 BLAK a little over a year ago (October 2010). I went in to the shop ready to buy the RX-2 and just loved the bass of the RX-3 that I ended up buying it. I knew I wasn't going to be buying a piano again, so I wanted the one I would love for the rest of my life. That was my reasoning. I have never regretted getting the bigger piano for one second. But I could afford it, had space for it, and got a great deal, as well. I think that price is a good deal. Similar to what I paid. There are some good deals out there. You can PM me if you have any other questions.

MM

p.s. Here is my original post:
http://www.pianoworld.com/forum/ubbthrea...tml#Post1532701
and a picture:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/jacklynsey/5072655795/in/photostream/

I can understand why BPM is getting jumped on. It would seem the quoted price is below what kurtman would quote in San Jose. The Bay area is one of the most competitive in this country and prices there have historically been the lowest we've seen mentioned here. The LA area is also very competitive. BPM has only 8 posts to his name and could easily be a sock puppet for a Yamaha dealer looking to put price pressure on his competition. Such things have, of course, never happened here before [/sarcasm]. By asking BPM to state who the dealer is kurtman will either find out who is pricing pianos in such a way as to devalue the brand (in his opinion) or find out who's pricing because they need to sell a piano to make payroll or other financial hardship OR find out who's in an even more competitive market than he is.

OR he'll find out that BPM is reluctant to put his dealer up to such scrutiny and then we'll be left wondering just how real this situation is, at least until the pictures are posted.

Thank you Steve.
There are many reasons why a dealer will give away merchandise; that’s not important.
I also believe that BPM has all rights to post any price he wishes.
The whole point of asking to post the name of the dealer is just to legitimize the price. That's it.
There are a few posts out there with the price as the title for the post (This makes me suspicious). All threads posted by these individuals have no history and right from the get-go displayed these unbelievable prices.

This forum is popular and read nationwide, the accuracy of information should be at least half way regulated. Regardless if it is Steinway, Yamaha, Schimmel, Kawai or any brand.

There are many very stupid salespeople out there who don't understand that damaging the competition in such way, will eventually damage their own brands as well… and the piano industry. The piano industry it is not a thriving business nationwide (of course there are dealers doing well) however I have seen many stores close and personal friends watch their business go under. Damage to the industry is not about one brand or dealer but everybody related to the piano trade.

There is nothing wrong with PW requesting dealer's name as guideline to prevent for people to take advantage of this media.

Kurtmen, you make a good point and it all makes sense… however, although Piano World is not a “democratic entity” per-se, I do not see how we can regulate all of the information in every post unless it is blatant spam or down-right obscene. The moderators here can only do so much in terms of tracking and identifying socks, shills and deviant trolls, most of which are new members, as you say (with the exception of Piano Madam). Ken Knapp is especially good at identifying these kinds of unsavory members (new or not) and has proven his investigative skill on this issue over and over again.

It has been my experience that such threads/posts are usually brought to light quickly and the real truth revealed in some form of fashion.

You have every right to request that the dealer offering such low prices be made known, and the OP has every right not to reveal such information, if they so choose.

New piano pricing is and has always been a touchy and controversial subject here on PW. And, it remains so… but it is not always the prospective buyers who are at fault.

Personally, when I was in the market for a piano and was looking at new pianos, I’ve had dealers to tell me they were offering me an unbelievably low price on a certain brand and model and not to tell anyone else because I was out of their dealer territory . Those who come here to PW looking for advice and information may innocently “tell” what a dealer has told them or offered them in the way of pricing. It’s a two edged sword, I suppose.

I wish I had the answers you are looking for…

Rick

Thank you Rickster,



IMO PW can have a guideline suggesting that if a PW-user has chosen to post a price on a NEW piano; PW reserves the right to ask for the dealer's name. If after the request the information is not provided to PW the post we'll be deleted.

This is not additional work for moderators since any outrageous post in regard to prices will be notify by dealers.

The fact that a poster has to involve the name of a business. it will make people think twice before using false information.



This is a practice which is discouraged here at piano world anyways! (for many reasons). We (dealers) make agreements with manufacturers for fair business practice. I don't see why PW should help those dealers who don't respect their agreements.In other words if you can't tell who then don't ask. Transparence I guess it is important.

Again requesting a name gets rid off the phonies. Look at BPM he hasn't return with any answers.
People has enough resources for pricing; beginning with 20% to 30% of SMP on Piano Buyer, you don't need to be a genius to figure than anything else below 30% is already more than fair.

I just took delivery of a brand new Kawai K3 for $4500 including delivery which is 45% below the Piano Buyer's SMP, so I suppose you don't feel that I'm telling the thruth either? I went to a local dealer and he wanted $500 more including delivery -- my money went to the dealer further away that gave me the better price. I believe in a free market and not having companies artifically inflate prices to keep non-competitive retailers in business. I really dislike what companies like Bose do in telling businesses what they can and can't charge for their products.

Why don't you tells us the name of the dealer if it is so important for you to make your point valid.
You can be just another phony. On Sunday night you were here shopping for a baby grand??? now you got a piano delivered today from out of town???
Call me crazy but I'll bet you that if PW checks the IP address on this thread and yours they could be the same.

I'm not a phony - I posted the whole story last week of getting the initial price of $4800 plus $200 for delivery from a local dealer and then buying the K3 for $4500 including delivery, 8 lessons, and a couple cheap freebies. No one asked me to post the name of the dealer, but I did name him in one of those posts regardless. I posted that my wife was considering a baby grand on Saturday after we went to a friend's house and she saw theirs, but it's just too far outside of our budget.

I can understand someone being reluctant to post the name of a dealer that they got a good price from as I spoke to someone selling a 10 year old Yamaha GA1 with a PianoDisc system installed for $8500. I did the research here to discover that this is a piano I do not want! Furthermore, I mentioned the dealer to him that I bought the K3 from and he said other Kawai dealers in the area want to get together and stop him from selling Kawai because he's selling them too cheaply. I wasn't happy to hear this, especially from a dealer that was telling me that the GA1 was a great piano at a great price! So not everything is as it seems.

Personally, I believe the guy that quoted that price on the RX3 as I spoke with another forum member here today via PM that got one even cheaper. I did a sanity check on the price you are objecting to with the dealer I bought the K3 from and although he said it was a very good deal, it was doable.

I'd be more than happy to post some pics of my new K3 if that helps as well as the invoice, though I don't feel that I should need to prove myself.

I'm sorry but nobody ask you to post in this thread some how it is important for you to prove you got such low price.

But because you are phony you can't prove it. Just provide the name of the dealer.

We have seen enough piano deliveries staged don't bother with the pictures.

I'm sorry, I didn't realize that I needed an invitation to post on a thread. I don't even know the original poster, but he sounded sincere to me. I have been interested in an RX2 or RX3 (after we bought the K3 last Thursday) and so I was interested in this thread in trying to determine a good price for these pianos. Please feel free to do a search on my posts and you will see the name of the dealer AND a URL to their website that I posted in two separate posts. I'm in northern New Jersey. This is a great forum with a lot of good people and I would not have gotten the great price on the K3 if I had not found this forum last week. Thanks again to those posters that helped guide my research and steered me away from the refurbished 80's Yamaha U3 and 12-year-old Boston UP-118S (these were the original pianos I was considering).

It appears to me that BPM and efriis are being treated a bit harshly without any substantiated cause. Just my $0.02

Thank you, Kurtmen, for giving me a window with which to peer in and discover the childish behavior of some of the staff at Carnes.

There is nothing childish about preventing abusive use of the forum. As I metioned earlier this is not damage done to a particular brand or dealer but the whole industry.

Methinks he doth protest too much

As I mentioned before, we (my wife and I) just bought our first piano (a Kawai K3), I did my research, and got a good price -- nothing more, nothing less. Please see my prior posts from last week which will reveal the whole story should you be so inclined. I have no idea who the guy/gal is who bought the RX3, but I see no reason why his price would be fabricated to try and damage anyone or anything.

I have an idea, in keeping with the spirit of the forum, let's just move on...

Pricing is always a touchy issue on the forum and I personally hate to see a lot of talk about it on the forum.

I can see both sides of this discussion. A poster who got a good deal takes exception to his word being questioned. But it happens because there have been numerous times that dealers will create a fake screen name in order to do damage to a brand they don't sell. I would not have believed how cut-throat the business is a mere few years ago.

As has been explained to me, an exceptionally good deal puts pressure on other dealers to match it. But that good deal may only have happened because of great financial need on the part of the selling dealer. They may have needed the cash in a hurry to pay the rent, make payroll, whatever, and perhaps decided to sell the piano at a loss even - just to meet that financial need. The result of this knowledge is that others go to other dealers and think they are crooks because they don't offer the same deal.

As Rick said earlier, IF anybody is playing games it will eventually come out. I've already done some checking and efris and BPM are coming here from different parts of the country.

Oh, Kurtmen, efris did mention the dealer in one of his posts, do a search on his posts to find it. I would repost the name but am not looking to give anyone any free publicity!!

On additional factor is the legal violation reported in the OP. Sales tax is calculated on the selling price BEFORE the trade in is deducted. If I read right the OP indicates that the dealer is violating the sales tax provisions.

It depends on what state you buy in, Sherlock.

Thank you Ken. I know I'm relatively new here, but I thought I was totally transparent and honest with all I posted regarding the K3 that I purchased (by the way I didn't see anything in the posts by BPM that warranted the accusation of any dishonesty at all). On the other hand, I'll reserve my opinion on the motivation of the posts by the accusing dealer.

Thanks efriis!

I have a friend in the business and I have helped him in his store from time to time. I can really feel for the people who rely on piano sales for a living. Right now, these people may put in 12 hour days with almost nobody coming into the store. Picture many of those people trying to get a price matched that they read about on here, and there is no way the boss will go for it. So the customer thinks you're a crook and all along your paycheck depends on what you sell. And if you go long enough with no sales you're out on the street. Every lost opportunity is a big deal to that person.

FWIW, when I purchased my Kawai, the dealer asked me not to tell anyone what I paid. I did not reveal the price or dealer until after he'd closed shop. This was at at the worst of the recession.

In SoCal there just might be too many Kawai dealers, perhaps it is the same in the Bay Area?

edit:
Ken, you're right about times are tough for dealers. I wonder how much the industry's way of conducting business is to blame, though.

Hi Ken - thanks for running such a great forum! I guess the flip side of that story is that both me and my wife were laid off at the end of last year -- the only income we have right now is unemployment and the dealer willing to save me $500 on the piano is the one who got my money in these tough times and likely the one who will get my business during the good times. The "local" dealer said he was going to give me an "incredible deal" and he was lying -- it was an OK deal and he was going to walk away padding his pockets a bit. The protectionist pricing advocated by some self-serving companies/dealers is not only bad for the economy, but also the industry and the consumer (good for dealers who can't or don't want to compete -- after all isn't this the same thing OPEC has been trying to do for so long while we pay handsomely at the pump??). Competition is good. Remember the garbage Detroit was producing in the 70s before the Japanese gave them a run for their money? Competition from the likes of Kawai is waking up cartels like Steinway -- thus the emergence of the Boston line and some pressure to be more competitive with their main piano line. This is a good thing.