Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Digital Pianos - Electronic Pianos - Synths & Keyboards Which headphones do you use/recommend?

Well for those that are technically minded there are plans out there to build the Altoid amplifiers, though I have no idea how good they would be.

There's guys on eBay who will sell you a little battery powered op-amp deal, same general type as the Altoid DIY headamp, for not much more than you'd spend on parts. Real inexpensive if you grab one of the cheapest ones.

Unfortunately, some of those circuits run on a 1.25V or 2.50V battery supply that limits their output voltage swing to just around 1VRMS and they don't do a good job at all with a higher-impedance headphone. So be careful...or just buy a 32-ohm headphone in the first place...

On the other hand, please consider that lower impedance headphones might suck more power out from your DP, so if you intend to use two headphones simultaneously, you might run into problems, like me. Kawai support has just recommended me to use higher impedance (at least 55 ohm) headphones instead.

Interesting. Honestly, I'm not totally surprised as most consumer electronics in my experience are barely up to handling one headphone. Having the same little output circuit driving two at once has to be a tough ask.

High impedance headphones require a larger voltage swing at the output of the device driving them. Portable electronics as well as bare-bones, afterthought headphone jacks on larger equipment will be limited to a couple volts (or less) maximum supply rail voltage. Hence, very little ability to drive high impedance 'phones.

Low impedance headphones need not so much voltage swing but do demand considerable current to be sourced at the headphone jack when playing loudly or encountering large musical peaks. Two sets of headphones at once require the same voltage but twice the current (well, the current is additive anyway) so the current-demand thing is going to be the limiting factor.

That tells me that Kawai's headphone jack has at least several volts available but they may use the unbuffered output from a op-amp, thereby having limited current capability.

I bought a pair of SR 325is to use with my DP last year, and they're certainly the best (and most expensive) headphones I've ever used. When I listen to CDs or live classical concerts on digital radio through them, the realism is uncanny.

A good headphone amp is a great investment. I actually currently just use the headphone amp on my Mackie Onyx 400f which is a cheap and cheerful interface I had lying around when I close my studio last year. Prior to that most of my listening was off of our high end desk which of course made any headphones shine.

As for dedicated amps I would say going too expensive isn't necessary at all, go and try some out locally and see what you like, I think that is always the best solution. The only dedicated amp I have used (which is not simply a utilitarian splitter for tracking in the studio) is the Grado one and it is very nice but too pricy IMO.

Senheiser HD-598 here. I've bought them solely for my DP testing which is still to be performed, but I'm very satisfied with them now even for youtube music listening. Previously I had Senheiser's PX-100, cheap, also very good, especially considering their price but after long listening I've been tired by them. HD-598 is completely different class. But it's not obvious on first test, in fact I've thought what the h*ll I bought, my PX-100 was the same quality when I first tested them. They are also very light and comfortable.

I have the Asgaard Head Amp and I use it with a pair of Audio Technica ATHM 50s phones--sounds absolutely phenomenal-

I run the fixed output XLR outputs into the Asgaard using 2 XLR Female to RCA cables on my MP10--

By the way for whatever reason running from the MP10's headphone out jack to the Asgaard doesn't sound anyway close to running it out the XLR outputs--Sounds very thin and Metallic coming out of the MP10's headphone jack-though just running the phones out of the phone out jack with no amp sounds fine--but coming out the XLR's to the Amp to the phones is truly sweet!!!

Great Day!!!

Jack

Highly recommend the Asgaard especially for the price and also that it is hand assembled and tested in the USA the company is called Shiit no pun intended!!!

I just don't get this at all. Would you look at a £10,000 car and think there is no difference between it and a £100,000 car? Would you be saying "I don't buy all this smoke and mirrors about hand-stitched leather and burr walnut. And that voodoo about twin turbos and supercharging - it's all just marketing"?

In a general sense you get what you pay for. Hi-Fi people understand this in relation to Hi-Fi. Car people understand this in relation to cars. Camera people understand this in relation to cameras. And DP people understand this in relation to DPs. If you don't understand just because Hi-Fi (or whatever) is not your area of interest why not try keeping an open mind until you've heard lots of equipment at different price levels? Yes, cables can make a HUGE difference. Mains conditioners can make a HUGE difference. Don't just look on from the sidelines with little or no experience of any of this stuff and call it all bunkum.

Anyway, now I've finished ranting I use a Musical Fidelity X-Can valve headphone amp. It's been plugged into the mains (there is no on/off switch) for 15 years. I've probably only unplugged it half a dozen times. It sounds tremendously open and dynamic. But I've never used it with a DP - I might give that a go.

Certainly there are differences in quality between low end and high end gear, in all types of gear.

However, your analogy doesn't speak to the discussion perfectly. We aren't talking about equipment that produces the sound, converts it from digital to audio, or plays it into your ear. It just amplifies it enough to drive a headphone. And we aren't talking about using it with a transcendently high end sound source and headphones, or necessarily into golden ears.

Here's another analogy: does a super-expensive car get me from my house to the next state over any faster? No. The speed limit and traffic are the limiting factors. A tiny bit of improved acceleration at the beginning won't be noticeable.

No one doubts that having improved original sounds or better headphones is noticeable. But how good do the original sounds, DAC, and headphones need to be before the extra thousand dollars or two worth of headphone amp quality can be detectable? About that I am very skeptical.

You typically get noticeably improvements in quality if what you are dumping money into is a weak link in the chain.

Your argument is totally illogical. Your analogy about the car is a quantitative one. People buy expensive cars knowing they will sometimes be sitting in a traffic jam or knowing that they may never drive it very fast. The difference is qualitative, not quantitative. Comfort, ride quality, noise, steering feel, handling balance. These are the things that more money will buy you. You won't get to your destination any faster. This kind of comparison works across a vast number of consumer products including Hi-Fi and musical instruments (digital or acoustic).

In any audio chain the sound is only as good as the weakest link. In the old days people used to think speakers were the be all and end all. Now we know that approach was completely wrong. The source is what matters most, then amplification, then speakers or headphones. The quality of cabling and the mains is also important, and the equipment stand to maximise isolation.

Again the Asgaard is $249 and at least for me makes a very noticeable difference with my MP 10 & Audio Technica ATHM 50's-

Jack

EssBrace, you are actually making the same point as me: the weak link is what matters.

Replacing normal high-ish end tires with super-duper-expensive-racing tires won't quantitatively or qualitatively improve your ride if you are using the same VW bug. There are differences between a $100 tire and a $2,000 tire (is there such a thing? I'm just guessing), but not any that will be noticed on a mediocre car. A $100 tire is already not the weak link.

The question is whether a $100-$150 headphone amp is anywhere near the weak link in a digital piano audio chain.

When you are going to connect your headphones to your DP, then buy a low-impedance version (32-100 Ohm). Higher impedance headphones, generally need a headphone amplifier, because of the weak headphones amp in the DP.

I strongly recommend to listen to some headphones in your price range before buying. There is a lot of difference in sound quality and personal preference.

My list (FWIW):

Sony MDR-SA5000
Sennheiser HD-650 (300 Ohm)
Grado SR 325i

Tom, how would you compare your Grado and Sennheiser for DP use? Which do you prefer for this purpose?

Or your Sony, for that matter. I'm just less familiar with that one.

I take your point completely. But your previous comment was about opinions expressed on Hi-Fi forums. I took what you said to mean that you imagine there is little benefit in buying high-end gear and I don't think my interpretation of what you were saying was unreasonable. Wrong perhaps but not unreasonable based on the way you made the comment (and the way MacMacMac rammed it home). But I think you are right in talking about the signal chain from a DP - a headphone amp of modest price would be a good investment but to spend lots would probably give little or no improvement.

There have been many instances on this forum where individuals with no experience of Hi-Fi at all have basically tried to say that people who perceive a difference with top end cables for instance are mad or deluded or brain-washed or all three. And the same people have tried to suggest that the sellers of such gear are little more than criminals because all their claims about their products are lies. Hi-Fi just happens to be a topic close to my heart, although I don't own any now.

Sounds fair.

I think, though, that we can make allowance for what MacMacMac said and my own comments by noting that sometimes it can be just marketing, and that consumers can certainly delude themselves into thinking two pieces of equipment with nearly identical internal parts are of different quality because of price or marketing considerations. I know I have.

It's particularly easy to have that happen in music equipment because it is hard to measure and describe performance, while it's easy to describe innovations, whether they make a difference or not ("This cable has gold infused silver strands with microdiamonds embedded at optimal intervals to sharpen your sounds. It was smelted by monks in the mountains of Japan, each of whom has achieved nirvana").

:))

Indeed, on some Hi-Fi forums, I have read statements that sounded very much like this.

And the hilarious bit is that some try to make similar statements even about stuff that are purely digital! (With digital output, that is.)

(The fact that the output can be measured and compared bit-by-bit does not seem to bother them, at all.)

I wonder how long can this go on, without serious consequences..

Kristof

Of course, it happens here too. And in acoustic pianos.

I remember shopping for a new Kawai grand a few years ago and the dealer was explaining that the Shigeru model is better because the copper is hand wound around the bass strings instead of being wound by a machine. SK pianos may be better, but I have a very hard time believing that it is because of this.

Similarly Steinway proudly notes that their new pianos are tuned by hand in the factory, not by machine. This supposedly helps because it keeps the sound organic. Sounds crazy to me. Pianos need several tunings in a row when they are new, so the factory tuning is all but irrelevant as long as it gets it to the ballpark. The first thing people do when they get a new piano is have it tuned by their local tech or the dealer's. By hand.

And your experience of Hi-Fi is what precisely?