lots of playing, searching, research, etc. ,
preceded that "30 second" negotiation.

I once had a dealer who wanted me to pay MSRP for a Kawai RX-2, which was around 30K at the time. Needless to say, I went somewhere else.

Same here, I knew what price he'd sold it to someone else for and simply asked him to match the great deal in this case. He was reasonable and did. I said "sold!" and didn't look back. He made a profit and invested a couple minutes of his time -- a win-win situation I think.

Some people enjoy the art of the deal (I love negotiating the best price I can get) and some don't (like my wife who cannot haggle -- she will always ask me to do it). If you like to pay full list price for everything it's OK with me...for those of us that try and usually get a better deal that should be OK too. Unlike items in a department store (there they run sales and offer coupons), we all know that most piano sellers have room to negotiate and still make money. They can say no to a price and so can the buyer. Like I said before, I believe in the free market and think that competition amongst sellers is a good thing for the buyer and a better end product will generally emerge. Those who are less likely to bend on price, unless they are offering really stellar service instead (or have a monopoly), will likely go out of business. There was such a piano dealer nearby here in NJ and the store now stands vacant.

I don't think the issue here is whether or not some individuals are willing to pay full list price while others are not… I think the subject of this thread was whether or not a consumer is getting “ripped off” (inferring that the dealer is dishonest or a crook) if the dealer is not willing to come down on the price to meet the consumers demands.

My logical conclusion is, no, a consumer is not getting ripped off if they want an expensive luxury item/product but think the price is too high and can’t find a lower price and pay the asking price.

I will say, however, that, usually, the dealer with the lower price will get the sale (most of the time); does that mean the dealer is getting ripped off by the customer? No.

If the price paid is mutually agreed upon, no one is getting ripped off.

Rick

I guess I failed to miss the original point...

I took as given that the poster considered the price to be "ripoff" high (although after consulting the Fine's SMP for U1 I see that's not necessarily true) and wanted to know if any of us would pay it anyway. I didn't realize it was also a referendum on what exactly is too much or not for that particular model.

Generally speaking for me there are other things involved in choosing a dealer than the absolute lowest price. But price obviously does matter, especially if it's more money than one has in ones pocket!

While I am supportive of small local businesses, especially ones that are motivated more by passion than profit, I must take issue with the belief that a buyer should be responsive to a dealer's operating expense. While that operating expense certainly does vary for each dealer and affects the final price, I think that expense should not be part of my "what I'm willing to pay" calculation. I have enough to consider on my side as-is. If a dealer has a bad business model or inefficient store, then that is really his problem to either fix or compensate for. I'm happy if a dealer compensates for higher price by offering better service, or by saving me time in price negotiations. Id rather spend my time shopping for a piano that I love, than shopping for a good deal.

The piano industry should find a way to cater to both the average shopper, as well as the rarer "prestige" shopper who can be a source of much higher profit. Maybe the PianoDisc system fulfills this role to a limited extent?
When I'm older and rich, I'll want a piano with my initials monogrammed in the lid, and will pay that type of money for it. I'll do only enough price negotiating so that the dealer doesn't think I'm a complete idiot. But in the meantime, I'm busy establishing a career. I need to save time.

I do not believe that operating costs for a small local business are synonymous with a "bad business model" or "inefficient store," as Maxtor suggests. Having real people to consult costs money--they have to make a living, too. If this is more expensive than buying on the Internet, where there are no live people to help and advise the customer, then that is the way it is.

There used to be a lovely camera store in my neighborhood. Putative customers would go to the store and talk with the proprietor for hours. He would help them work out their camera needs, and put together packages of equipment that would meet them. They would then leave and go out and buy everything he had recommended on line. Needless to say, he is not there any more. He was not put out of business by digital photography and smartphones--this was longer ago than that--but by providing what amounted to free advice and education to people who then bought elsewhere.

Was he inefficient? Probably not, for the service he provided. But if you don't get paid for the service you provide, you can't keep providing it.

How many of us still have local (or even national) book stores to visit?

The Internet comes with a price. For something like a piano that will need ongoing service and attention, that price may be too high. In a way, piano dealers have at least a little built-in protection from the Internet because pianos (in my view) should be individually selected after trying them out and (in everyone's view) require ongoing attention. Dealers should not be penalized for their success in providing individual attention to customers, nor should they be prevented from making a living on the theory that they should compete with the Internet. Computers do not need to eat.

Excellent post, Rank Piano Amateur!

Rick