Hi,

This is my first post,although I have been lurking for a few months. I've learned so much from the threads on these forums, and look forward to hearing any advice/opinions.

Just a little background on me and my situation...I've been looking to buy a grand piano for my two children, ages 13 and 9. They both are quite serious about the piano and music in general.

We've found a piano we've fallen in love with, we being my two kids and myself! In terms of tone, touch, and everything, this piano really seems to be the one. It is a C Bechstein, early 1900s, with a recent restoration. One issue, however, is that it does not have the sostenuto pedal. My children's teacher is adamant about having this capability.

My question is, is it even possible to have this mechanism added? If so, what ballpark figure? Is this type of addition worth it, or would it be better to keep looking?

I feel that earlier in our search, I let a good piano slip away by not moving quickly enough. It was an older Seiler that I couldn't drag my 13 year old away from. I don't want to let this Bechstein "get away" if adding this pedal is feasible, and of course affordable!


I thank everyone in advance for any comments, opinions, etc. Thanks,

Janet c

I disagree with the teacher's opinion about the need for a sostenuto pedal, especially because you like everything else about the piano so much. Very few verticals have a real sostenuto pedal. Does the teacher insist all students have a grand?

It is very important to have the piano inspected by a highly qualified and independent tech however.

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It might be possible, but it would be expensive. Better to look for a piano that has it already.

Sounds like you have a teacher capable of teaching at a high level. I second BDB - find a piano that already has the sost pedal.

First off, I concur with those questioning the absolute necessity of a sostenuto. This is backed up by an excellent article about the history of the sostenuto pedal in a recent edition of the Piano Technician's Guild Journal.

To quote: "[Around 1875] Steinway proceeded to include this pedal in all their grand pianos, and since their pianos were so successful on the concert stage, that option became a norm rather than simply a curiosity. Hence, composers began to take advantage of it in their compositions, Claude Debussy being one of the most important early users. Still, the number of composers and compositions needing this pedal was not overly significant, and most piano makers did not bother to include it. Broadwood, Bechstein, and Bösendorfer are some of the prominent makers who ignored the middle pedal in the late 19th and early 20th centuries, and prominent large-volume makers like Yamaha only made it standard for their grand pianos in the late 20th century." (p. 26, PTJ, Vol 54 No. 12)


I service a Bechstein with a retro-fitted sostenuto. It somehow-kind-of works. There is very, very little room behind the action to fit the mechanism without interfering with other moving parts. I would not recommend attempting it.

The teacher is adamant? This reads like a case of the tail wagging the dog…..

To put it a little more bluntly, you buy the instrument you and your family likes.

Then you have the teacher or a teacher instruct on that piano.

I tune lots of instruments I do not like but I am not adamant that the client purchase a new one that I like better. It is not my happiness that is the important part but rather the clients’.

The teacher is providing a service. If this teacher does not want to instruct on the instrument you choose you know what to replace, and it isn’t only the piano….

Exactly Dan.

I think the main point here is that it is YOUR piano, not the teachers piano. She can do whatever she wants with her OWN piano but, you play on this piano all week long, she does not. You love the piano so, quite frankly, who cares what she thinks about it? So long as it is a good instrument, that your family enjoys that has been approved and is being taken care of by a good technician, that's all that really matters.

You drive your own car all week long too right? So, if the mechanic insisted that you retrofit it with something else because "he thinks your car should have it" does that mean you have to do it and should? No way. I'd tell the teacher nope! If she's a pain about it, go and get a new teacher.

On the other hand, the sostenuto pedal can be a very valuable tool for a nice, clean sound, and it is very difficult to learn to use properly. It is rare that someone wants to teach the use of it. You have to decide what you want.

By now, with all of the above, you will have a good idea of the feasibility of a retrofit.

Whether you need or will need a workng sostenuto is best discussed between you and your childrens' teacher. I have known major teachers and artists who give the sostenuto serious attention particularly over the past 20 years.

Perhaps some evidence from your teachers' advanced students.

Do not let the Bechstein get away, if you are in love with it and its wonderfull sound and action, which I bet you are .
Get it, if the teacher doesnt like such a fine and historically wonderfull piano as it stands, drop them.

Most teachers I know, even at the university level, know virtually nothing about the insides of a piano!! Why do people think they do???? A good tech can give you some real information.

One that knows what a sostenuto pedal is and how to use it may be a rare treasure.

In the hundreds of master classes at Mannes I've seen, I've never once heard a teacher discuss the sostenuto pedal. IMO it is so rarely required in most of the standard literature from before the mid 20th century that making its availability for young children a critical requirement in piano selection is just wrong.

I agree completely.

I just recently explained to an experienced piano teacher how the sustenuto works. She was pleasantly surprised. She did not have a clue before then. Was almost embarrassed.

It is a nice feature, but certainly not essential.

Hi,

Thanks for all the replies, thoughts, and ideas.

I have a lot to mull over...and I'm really appreciating this forum!

Thanks,

Janet

I had a teacher tell me the middle pedal on her new piano didn't and should have been checked before delivery. She was embarrassed also, when I show her how it work.

Reading this thread I am put in mind of a private piano teaching studio with 4 teachers and 4 Steinway 'B's

I was asked to readjust a fully functioning sostenuto pedal so that it picked up earlier and she demonstrated the context of a piece she was teaching. That's how I discovered their teaching of sostenuto.
This studio produced many well rounded fine musicians.

Now, knowing how challenging it can be to select a compatible piano, teacher and tuner and knowing so little about the teacher involved here, other than this one aspect of their reccomendation about pianos which turn out to be may be negotiable, why are so many here suggesting getting rid of the teacher? Am I missing something?

The OP asked for a variety of opinions and this is what she has received. Some of the opinions are soft sell and others have a harder edge.

Given the fact that the OP has characterized the teachers’ position as being “adamant about this capability” (sostenuto assembly) some members have posted an opinion more strident than others.

The OP has found a piano she and her family members like to play and further, would like to purchase.

If the teacher is unhappy over this that is a choice the teacher makes alone.
So to answer your question, no I don’t think you are missing something.

But I can tell you this;

In another part of my life, I instruct high level tennis. I can only make recommendations to clients about grips, handle sizes, string materials, racquets and technique.

If the client does not take my recommendations, I can make one of two choices: work with the choices they have made without complaint, or walk away.

The former choice makes me a professional instructor. The latter choice reveals me as a prima donna.

Thanks. Dan.

A really thoughtful answer.