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#183352 - 08/28/01 10:19 PM home from nyc piano shopping trip
piqué Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/15/01
Posts: 5483
i went to five different dealers and saw and played more makes of pianos than i can recall, but here are some:

petrof (52" and a 6'4" grand)
mason and hamlin (one vertical and several grands)
yamaha (u-3, u-5)
steinway (k-52, lots of grands of all sizes)
schulze pollman (verticals)
estonia
bosendorfer
august forster (uprights and grands)
pleyel (vertical)
sauter (vertical and a 7' grand)
grotrian-steinweg (baby, 6', and 7' grands)
kawai (grand)
bluthner (grand)

i'm sure there may have been others,too. if anyone here would be helped by my sharing impressions of any of the above, just ask.

of all the pianos, one stands out as the piano of my dreams--a 6'3" grotrian grand. david wrote in another thread that i seemed to be seeking out a certain quality of tone, and he was right. when i followed my tonal instincts it took me to this instrument--it is dark and complex and the treble is rich and bell-like, with extraordinary sustain. i've never played anything like it before. but it is dear. i keep thinking maybe the recession will help me out here, but i am concerned about over extending myself.

the petrof 131 is a really nice piano for a lot less money and i would have bought one if the dealer who does the nice prep had had one that wasn't already sold. i'm sorely tempted to buy one without playing it first, because i don't know when i'll be able to return to new york. but i don't think i have enough nerve to do that.

i think what i learned from this trip is that i should probably get a grand piano, possibly a good used one. if none of the instruments i liked in new york, then i guess i will have to wait some more.

i also learned that i need a full week in new york city, to be able to go back and play instruments that interest me on more than one day. otherwise it is just too rushed.
_________________________
piqué

now in paperback:


Grand Obsession: A Piano Odyssey

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#183353 - 08/29/01 01:07 AM Re: home from nyc piano shopping trip
ryan Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/04/01
Posts: 1995
Loc: Colorado
Grotrian grands are truly special - one of my favorite pianos to play. Their verticals are pretty special too. Hopefully this won't sound trite, but sometimes the more you know what you want, the longer it can take to find it. It is usually out there, even if it takes a while to find it.

Ryan

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#183354 - 08/29/01 01:27 AM Re: home from nyc piano shopping trip
Penny Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/26/01
Posts: 2943
Loc: San Juan Capistrano, CA
Pique,
You found it! My perfect piano!!!! Isn't it great? It's still my number one fave, even though I bought something else. My S-P is half the cost and very lovely in its own right. But I dream of sending it off with one of my children and getting my Grotrian someday. (Too bad they're so young!!) I know I just HAVE to have it!

Yes, the search can be frustrating. The more brands you play, the more brands you want to play, new ones and ones you've already played before. Good luck. You're doing the right thing.

I don't know if you have any travel plans to go to Virginia, but according to Pianomart.com, there's a 1992 Grotrian 6'4" there for $32K. Don't know if that's a fair price or not, but there could be negotiating room. I would've gone for a used one myself, but alas, we were hooked on getting a red piano and red Grotrians are almost nonexsistant in this country!

best of luck,
penny

[ August 29, 2001: Message edited by: Penny ]

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#183355 - 08/29/01 12:16 PM Re: home from nyc piano shopping trip
piqué Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/15/01
Posts: 5483
penny,

this is a NEW grotrian for $30K. unfortunately it is in high-gloss black, my least favorite color. they had several on the floor, and this is the one that really stood out--i liked it better than the 7' models for tone and touch, so i think this is my piano, and i'll put up with the undesireable case color--that is, if i can afford it, which is still unclear.

i was hoping to persuade the dealer to go even lower, but haven't yet talked to them. i take it from your comment that their price is already very low?

evidently the recession is hitting high-end german grand pianos hard, because the 7' sauter i saw was only $27,500 and brand new. i was suspicious about this, so i called the distributor, who didn't handle this particular piano (the dealer got it direct from the manufacturer), but said *dealer cost* on a 7' sauter in pyramid mahogany is $30K.

if anyone reading this wants that sauter, it is at altenburg piano house in elizabeth, nj. ask for george. the price includes a cover, the bench, and long-distance delivery. it is a gorgeous instrument, and a magnificent piece of furniture, but i didn't fall in love with its touch and tone like i did the grotrian. and 7' is just too big, especially if i ended up having to try to sell it. if you do want it, i would definitely investigate the warranty situation. i couldn't get them to show me the warranty.

ryan wrote:
"sometimes the more you know what you want, the longer it can take to find it. It is usually out there, even if it takes a while to find it."

this does not sound trite at all, ryan, and in fact, i find your words very reassuring. sometimes i wonder if the search will ever end. thanks.
_________________________
piqué

now in paperback:


Grand Obsession: A Piano Odyssey

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#183356 - 08/29/01 12:22 PM Re: home from nyc piano shopping trip
Rich D. Online   content
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/27/01
Posts: 1236
Loc: Rehoboth Beach De. USA
Pique,
Well you too have found the delight of playing a Grotrian grand. They certainly are special. It does seem that you've now played a great many pianos, uprights and grands and have narrowed down somewhat what you like and don't like. Sounds to me too that you may want to focus on a grand if you can afford one that you really like.

BTW I've seen the Grotrian 6'3" in Virginia. IMHO it's overpriced and not one of the best I've played. Keep us up-to-date on what you decide to do.

Rich
_________________________
Retired at the beach (well maybe not completely)

"Life is like a piano....what you get out of it depends on how you play it"
Anonymous


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#183357 - 08/29/01 05:27 PM Re: home from nyc piano shopping trip
Penny Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/26/01
Posts: 2943
Loc: San Juan Capistrano, CA
Pique,
Was the price $30K price at Beethoven? I get the impression their prices are pretty low and there isn't much negotiating room. The deal on the Sauter sounds pretty good.

But I can TOTALLY relate to the conundrum (sp?) in which you find yourself. We didn't want ebony either. A pyramid mahogany Sauter we tried sounded just OK next to another Sauter, which sounded terrific, but wasn't red. When you have yourself hooked on anything but an ebony finish, the pickin's are slim.

I believe the quote Beethoven gave me to ORDER (read: must make financial commitment without being able to play first) a pyramid mahogany Grotrian was $36K or $37K. But Beethoven is NOT an authorized Grotrian dealer (they must have a source somewhere) and I was reluctant to spend that kind of money on something I couldn't play first -- the conundrum!

These are good times for piano buyers. I hope you can get that Groat. They are the finest piano in the 190 size (6'3'ish). My local dealer has one that is DREAMY. I won't even ask what he wants for it because his prices are HIGH on everything we've discussed.

Meanwhile, Niles came back today for one clean-up item left over from the tuning a couple of weeks ago. He pronounced my S-P "lovely," (I report with a sigh of relief). Of course, it sounds much better when HE plays it!

penny

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#183358 - 08/29/01 10:23 PM Re: home from nyc piano shopping trip
Rich D. Online   content
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/27/01
Posts: 1236
Loc: Rehoboth Beach De. USA
Pique,
The 6'3" Grotrian seems to have a better balance in the scale than the 7'5". The Beethoven price I thought was 32K for the 6'3" so if it's down to 30K that a great deal.

Rich
_________________________
Retired at the beach (well maybe not completely)

"Life is like a piano....what you get out of it depends on how you play it"
Anonymous


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#183359 - 08/29/01 11:23 PM Re: home from nyc piano shopping trip
piqué Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/15/01
Posts: 5483
penny, i tried to email you but no response, so i'm not sure if i had the right address. if beethoven is not an authorized dealer, does that mean their pianos are not under warranty? their pianos say "grotrian-steinweg" on them, and i thought that the company wasn't allowed to use the steinweg name in the usa. does this mean these are gray market pianos?

rich, i'm wondering if you know what the list price is for the 6'3" grotrian?

tonight my husband asked me if i'd rather have a grotrian or a nicer house. i think he was a bit shocked when i said i'd rather have the grotrian.
_________________________
piqué

now in paperback:


Grand Obsession: A Piano Odyssey

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#183360 - 08/30/01 08:30 AM Re: home from nyc piano shopping trip
Rich D. Online   content
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/27/01
Posts: 1236
Loc: Rehoboth Beach De. USA
Pique,
The list price for a 6'3" Grotrian in polished ebony is 54K. If your serious about getting a Grotrian I would also call Piano Mill (617-928-1237) in Boston. They are an authorized Grotrian dealer with very good prices as well. I played a 6'3" Grotrian up there that truely was a wonderful instrument. If I recall correctly they can order a mahogany or walnut finish Grotrian for around 2K more than the polished ebony.

Rich
_________________________
Retired at the beach (well maybe not completely)

"Life is like a piano....what you get out of it depends on how you play it"
Anonymous


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#183361 - 08/30/01 11:11 AM Re: home from nyc piano shopping trip
Penny Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/26/01
Posts: 2943
Loc: San Juan Capistrano, CA
Pique,
I'm sorry I wasn't around my computer in the afternoon/evening. I emailed you back! But, if anyone does know where Beethoven gets their Grotrians, I'd be curious, too. But I am SURE they are not an authorized dealer.
penny

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#183362 - 08/30/01 06:36 PM Re: home from nyc piano shopping trip
Rich Galassini Online   content
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/28/01
Posts: 9112
Loc: Philadelphia/South Jersey
Hi Penny,

How can you be sure of this?
_________________________
Rich Galassini
Cunningham Piano Co.
Phila, Pa.
Dir. Line (215) 991-0834
rich@cunninghampiano.com
Get Cunningham Piano Email Updates

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#183363 - 08/30/01 07:35 PM Re: home from nyc piano shopping trip
Penny Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/26/01
Posts: 2943
Loc: San Juan Capistrano, CA
I had talked to the distributor, Bob something. I don't have my notes in front of me, I apologize. But I met him at NAMM at the Grotrian booth and then called him about finding a local Grotrian dealer in SoCal (didn't realize it was under my nose!). Anyway, I asked him about Beethoven, because Beethoven had told me I could special order a babinga Grotrian, even though this is not one of their offered finishes. Bob told me that Beethoven is not a Grotrian dealer. I expressed some dismay, because I've been there and they had Grotrians, and according to their web site, they are a Groat dealer. He said Grotrian has asked them to stop, but to no avail.

I noticed just today that they no longer say "representing" Grotrian in their list of new pianos, yet still list several Grotrians in stock as new. They obviously have a source, and I'm guessing the source is from Germany because their prices are VERY competitive.

hope that clarifies,
penny

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#183364 - 08/30/01 08:26 PM Re: home from nyc piano shopping trip
Christopher Fasulo Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 07/09/01
Posts: 18
Loc: Forest Hills, New York 11375
 Quote:
Originally posted by pique:
[QB]the petrof 131 is a really nice piano for a lot less money and i would have bought one if the dealer who does the nice prep had had one that wasn't already sold. i'm sorely tempted to buy one without playing it first, because i don't know when i'll be able to return to new york. but i don't think i have enough nerve to do that.
QB]


Pique, I've been shopping for a grand piano for about 5 months now. I had been posting questions on here quite a bit when I first started looking. Penny highly recommended the Grotrian pianos, and I checked them out. They're incredible instruments, but were out of my price range. I also played a few Petrofs, and I actually liked the PIII better than the Grotrian. Very similar bell like treble and incredibly rich bass tones. I also bought the most recent Piano Book, and he rates the Petrofs highly. My local dealer just became an authorized Petrof dealer, and ordered an Ebony Polish as one of his first (per my request). I, like yourself, was hesitant in buying one before playing it. He said that if I didn't like it, it wouldn't be a problem. That was really helpful. The piano came in 2 weeks ago, and I went to play it. I'm in love again. I am thoroughly impressed by the consistancy of these Petrofs, and I believe they are the best value for the money. He gave me a price of $21,000 on the 6'4". I believe I can still talk him down, being that another dealer gave me a price of $20,500 on a mahogany polish of the same size. It helps to have dealers compete for the sale. ;\)

Now that I've put in my 2 cents worth, I wish you luck in your search, and I hope you find the one you truely love, and that it's in your price range.

~Chris

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#183365 - 08/30/01 09:17 PM Re: home from nyc piano shopping trip
Larry Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/25/01
Posts: 9217
Loc: Deep in Cherokee Country
Dealing under the table with *any* piano, much less a fine line piano, is not what I would expect from a dealership who is trying to maintain a quality reputation. I realize the consumer might think they got a better deal this way - I assure you he will find otherwise in time. Besides, a dealer who will play dirty pool with manufacturers and other dealers is not going to do differently when it comes to customers.

Just my opinion.
_________________________
Life isn't measured by the breaths you take. Life is measured by the things that left you breathless

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#183366 - 08/31/01 12:21 AM Re: home from nyc piano shopping trip
Penny Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/26/01
Posts: 2943
Loc: San Juan Capistrano, CA
 Quote:
Originally posted by Larry:
Dealing under the table with *any* piano, much less a fine line piano, is not what I would expect from a dealership who is trying to maintain a quality reputation. I realize the consumer might think they got a better deal this way - I assure you he will find otherwise in time. Besides, a dealer who will play dirty pool with manufacturers and other dealers is not going to do differently when it comes to customers.

[/b]



Larry, I'd like to explore this more. If I flew to Germany and bought a Mercedes and brought it over, would I somehow have less than a Mercedes? What if I found an importer? Pianos seem in some ways much simpler than cars. After all, you don't need extra smog equipment on your piano in California. In other words, a Grotrian sold in Germany is very similar in substance to a Grotrian sold in Boston, no?

You and other dealers have said it is VERY rare that a high-end piano would have work that would trigger the warranty, no? And really, what kind of long-term service are piano shoppers expecting. Most dealers offer one or two or maybe at best three tunings. So, if Beethoven (hypothetically speaking, I never got close enough to get the nitty-gritties of their services/prices/policies) offers these tunings and a voicing and promise to service small items (for example, felt underneath fallboard becomes loose), then other to the authorized dealers, many of whom who don't deserve our sympathy, where's the harm?

I believe in getting the best price with the best service. I traveled 300 miles from home to get it, passing two other Schulze Pollmann dealers along the way because they had pushy salesmen and bad pricing. If Beethoven offers good prices with the service, why should Pique go anywhere else?

I want to add that I'm really open to hearing your answers. I've respected your opinion in the past.

thanks,
penny

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#183367 - 08/31/01 12:50 AM Re: home from nyc piano shopping trip
Mat D. Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/29/01
Posts: 512
Loc: Sterling Heights, Michigan
Ethics aside (don't want to get into that), I would have no hesitation about buying a "high-end" piano, such as a Grotrian from a grey 'market dealer'. Ultimately, I would have my own tech do all the work on my piano anyway.

I have nothing against salesmen/women/dealers, authorized and unauthorized, and I know that is how things work--I bought my piano from a "salesman", but if I had found my "dream piano" at some other source (non-authorized), I can't say that I would have turned my back on the opportunity to buy it because no-one shook my hand when I went in the store--sorry.

this is hypothetical, of course.

$.02 worth

[ August 31, 2001: Message edited by: Mat D. ]

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#183368 - 08/31/01 06:26 AM Re: home from nyc piano shopping trip
Rich Galassini Online   content
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/28/01
Posts: 9112
Loc: Philadelphia/South Jersey
I think consumers owe themselves the opportunity to explore every option aand weigh out the ups/downs of the decision.

One huge downside to buying a piano this way (if beethoven is doing this) is the lack of any technical support from the US tech. office. Your tech. will have to supply the serial number when ordering any parts and if the number doesn't match with imported inventory, they may not fill the order (especially under warranty).

just my 2 cents,
_________________________
Rich Galassini
Cunningham Piano Co.
Phila, Pa.
Dir. Line (215) 991-0834
rich@cunninghampiano.com
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#183369 - 08/31/01 12:01 PM Re: home from nyc piano shopping trip
ryan Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/04/01
Posts: 1995
Loc: Colorado
Even high end pianos can have catastrophic problems. Not often, but it happens. Here in the Denver area somebody had a 6'3" Grotrian that didn't survive last winter. The soundboard cracked everwhere. It gets down to 10% relative humidity or less in the winter here, and apparently the owner didn't have any kind of humidity control. The piano was past the warranty period, but the dealership (who is authorized) went to bat and convinced Grotrian to repair the damages at their cost. Buy this piano from a non-authorized dealer and you might be on your own.

I guess if you get the piano cheap enough, it might come out as a wash if you have to pay for repairs out of pocket. Still, it's something to consider.

Ryan

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#183370 - 08/31/01 11:13 PM Re: home from nyc piano shopping trip
piqué Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/15/01
Posts: 5483
chris,
thanks for the tip about the petrof III. now i just have to find a dealer that prepares them well and is trustworthy. there used to be a petrof dealer in my town, but they told me they quit carrying the line because they hated dealing with the distributor. personality clash or something, i guess.

i understand there are two choices in the petrof 6'4"--a detoa action or the full renner action? is that correct?

larry,
i, too, would like to hear the answers to penny's questions. i think this whole aspect of the piano buying process is a very worthy conversation for this forum to have--and a healthy one.

thanks so much to the rest of you for sharing your perspectives on the relative merits of buying from an authorized v. unauthorized dealer. if anyone has anything else to add to this, please do so!

i am still negotiating on the grotrian, and learning more about what would be involved in this particular purchase. there are possibly some other good options open to me as well.

i should know more by the end of the holiday weekend. everyone have a happy labor day!
_________________________
piqué

now in paperback:


Grand Obsession: A Piano Odyssey

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#183371 - 09/01/01 10:25 AM Re: home from nyc piano shopping trip
Matt G. Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/22/01
Posts: 3789
Loc: Plainfield, IL
If I recall correctly, Petrof stopped using the Detoa action some time ago. I believe they now assemble their own action from Renner-supplied components for the Model III and a Renner-built action on the IIIM.

Anyone please correct me if this is not the case.
_________________________
Sacred cows make the best hamburger. - Clemens

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#183372 - 09/04/01 12:44 AM Re: home from nyc piano shopping trip
David Burton Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/28/01
Posts: 1757
Loc: Coxsackie, New York
All right. My hearty compliments to all who have contributed to making this thread so informative and interesting. I wanted to share a few things with the forum:

1) Grotrian Steinweg was FOR YEARS my ideal of the perfect piano, not only for how it sounded but how it played. I'm not at all surprised that so many find them attractive pianos. Though many would like to deny it, side by side comparisons of Grotrians with other pianos have conclusively demonstrated TO ME that they are closest to Hamburg Steinways than anything else, as well they might be, being such close relatives. For those that may not know, Grotrian and Steinway were partners.

2) "Authorized" vs. "unauthorized" dealers seems to vary by make, by agreements between manufacturers and dealers and based on services rendered by local dealers on certain makes of piano. This might matter if I was buying a fleet of pianos and needed the kind of services that a fleet of pianos would require. But as far as I am concerned, the primary relationship I will establish after purchasing my piano will not be with the manufacturer or the dealer but with a local technician of MY choice who can keep my piano in tune and in regulation and can enhance it's qualities over time. I have done this with my lowly Schubert upright which, Steve Cohen will be interested to know, has now reached an above average tuning stability and probably has developed to be as good as it can be for what it is. That is the point too; for what it is.

3) Pianos are NOT all in the same league, although the crossovers can often be surprising. I saw a couple USED Grotrians at Beethoven when I was there, both parlor grands under 6'. One reputedly one belonged to Amelda Marcos! They were very reasonable, more than reasonable for what they were, but neither was in tip top prep either. I liked them but didn't get that special yearning "ache" as with others. But let's say I decided that the price was irresistible, what would I do? I'd get my own tech to come with me to look over the piano in question. Maybe I'd make a formal request to bring in an independent tech with Carl Demler or not. Frankly, I doubt Carl would care one way or the other. The object would be to see what shape the piano was in for bringing it into optimum shape. That would be figured into my final cost. If the deal was right, I'd end up with a very nice little piano. So called "gray market" pianos are not exactly like buying a used car that has been in a wreck. Sometimes they are all but new except for a ding in the case that isn't important to how the piano plays or sounds. Are there guarantees involved? Oh yes! That Grotrian story of Ryan's is a great one to remember, but what he described can happen to ANY piano in Colorado or New York for that matter given the right (or wrong) conditions. On this forum, we have been trying to educate piano buyers and owners on the CARE and UPKEEP of their pianos as well as how to secure the best pianos for the best prices. I am personally sold on the Dampp-Chaser for a lot of reasons. I believe it has contributed to the excellent tuning stability I presently enjoy on my ever so lowly little piano. I'm quite sure that when I get my next piano, I will install a Dampp-Chaser on it. So what am I saying about a warranty? IT'S YOUR RESPONSIBILITY to keep your piano in good condition whether you have a warranty on your piano or not. Oh, and based on other very sad stories reported here, if you happen to live in places where your piano is subject to terminal damage, you'd better consider adequate insurance.

4) There is a trade off to be made from a dealer's standpoint about keeping an inventory in adequate prep for sale if it is understood that some other dealer half a world away will land a customer for a difference of only a few hundred dollars. Some probably feel less inclined to keep their pianos in prep, especially the more expensive ones. This really doesn't make much sense to me. The better dealers will keep an adequate but not extensive inventory in adequate preparation for sale, making these pianos into everything that best demonstrates their capabilities above and beyond "out of the box" condition. And as I've said many times before on this forum, my sympathies are with the dealer who must keep an inventory, take on the risk of doing business, try to offer quality products at competitive prices. What a dealer can truly offer is the unique piano. A Jim L can say he's not a dealer while helping someone find a piano and helping a charity even though he has to spend a certain amount of time (how is this figured?) to make his connections (a piano for a given customer); Jim L is in fact a kind of dealer even if of a "not for profit" kind. I, being the pro capitalist that I am, tend to view the dedicated quality piano dealer as a kind of hero. He's out there taking his risks, bearing the costs, having to keep inventory for months if not years as pianos are not like cars and trucks. (Piano makers are even more heroic in my book.) It's not that a Jim L deal hurts a "for profit" dealer especially as in fact ANY deal that isn't made by MY dealer hurts him. That's competition pure and simple and Jim L in his way is helping that, as indeed are all the private sales out there. Their effect is going to be to reduce the number of sub-standard NEW pianos that are offered for sale by all the quality dealers and in turn this will tend to stabilize a higher price for a quality piano, up to a point. That point is reached when new piano prices for some of the top brands become stratospheric and when an increasing number of people are becoming aware of just how important good technical maintenance of a piano is to its REAL as well as perceived value as a musical instrument..

Sorry for letting this get so long, but this really is an interesting thread.

(I'd sure like to know how one gets to have 5 stars...LOL)
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#183373 - 09/04/01 02:17 AM Re: home from nyc piano shopping trip
Norbert Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/03/01
Posts: 14097
Loc: Surrey, B.C.
I had the pleasure of having two well known
pianists in my store last Saturday.
Each one of them played all grands [about 20]
we have presently on the floor.
One of the pianists was a monster player with
a Doctor of music degree from Moscow conservatory, the other had graduated from Julliard School of Music in 1996.
It was an incredible experience to listen to
these players and their "review" of the SAME pianos!Thanks God,they didn't come together!

Put it that way: whatever the one liked,the other disliked, whatever the one described as
'heavy action' the other found almost 'too
light',one described one tone as 'dynamically
rich', the other 'not expressively appealing'

PLAYING, these guys could.....agreeing on
anything..they never would! Never,ever will!

How the hell could anybody ever expect to in this [piano] world.....especially if one is
practicing scales...another one Rachmaninoff!

Norbert Marten
www.heritagepianos.com
_________________________
www.heritagepianos.com
Greater Vancouver B.C. piano dealers for : C.Sauter, Estonia, Brodmann, Ritmuller
604-951-8642

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#183374 - 09/04/01 10:40 AM Re: home from nyc piano shopping trip
Mike Parke Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/29/01
Posts: 154
Loc: Columbus, OH
In response to David Burton --- I turned the stars off after reading how to do so in one of the other posts. The ratings don't seem to be very meaningful (besides nobody bothered rating me - with you at least some people care ;\) ). I gave you five stars to see if this would round things up. What I found in the process was that I was the fifth person to give a rating. What this likely means in your case is that one person gave you a lower rating affecting the result. I could see why this would happen to somebody controversial (of which there are fortunately none on this forum \:D ), but you've always posted only informative posts that should not have offended anyone. Back in the old forum format, I used to look for your posts first because I felt they were the best.

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#183375 - 09/04/01 02:31 PM Re: home from nyc piano shopping trip
MacDuff Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/26/01
Posts: 560
Loc: Southeast, U.S.A.
 Quote:
Originally posted by Norbert:
I had the pleasure of having two well known
pianists in my store last Saturday...whatever the one liked,the other disliked, whatever the one described as
'heavy action' the other found almost 'too
light',one described one tone as 'dynamically
rich', the other 'not expressively appealing'

PLAYING, these guys could.....agreeing on
anything..they never would! Never,ever will!
[/b]


Not only do pianists disagree on what makes a good piano, we also disagree on what's a tolerably bad one. In music school, I was always amazed that some of the practice-room pianos that I would specifically avoid were the very ones that were the favorites of my friends.

[ September 04, 2001: Message edited by: MacDuff ]

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#183376 - 09/05/01 08:27 AM Re: home from nyc piano shopping trip
David Burton Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/28/01
Posts: 1757
Loc: Coxsackie, New York
 Quote:
Originally posted by Mike Parke:
In response to David Burton --- I turned the stars off after reading how to do so in one of the other posts. The ratings don't seem to be very meaningful (besides nobody bothered rating me - with you at least some people care ;\) ). I gave you five stars to see if this would round things up. What I found in the process was that I was the fifth person to give a rating. What this likely means in your case is that one person gave you a lower rating affecting the result. I could see why this would happen to somebody controversial (of which there are fortunately none on this forum \:D ), but you've always posted only informative posts that should not have offended anyone. Back in the old forum format, I used to look for your posts first because I felt they were the best.[/b]


ROFL!!! I guess I need to know how to turn the stars off. Thanks for the confidence in my posts, sorry I can't be MORE controversial, but I'm an older gentleman now, only interested in fairly sedate music (well no, not really) and anyway those characters who have blown in here once in a while, whom we like to call "controversial," weren't, they were just plain rude! Anyway I can surely guess that the person who denied me my five star rating was probably from ARKANSAS since I made a few disparaging comments about that state on earlier posts about Baldwin who builds pianos there, or maybe it is "built pianos there" as they may have quit.
Too bad New Yorkers are known universally for our rude behavior: it seems we could be better known for our "in your face" sense of humor.
_________________________
David Burton's Blog
http://dpbmss041010.blogspot.com/

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#183377 - 09/06/01 07:52 AM Re: home from nyc piano shopping trip
Mike Parke Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/29/01
Posts: 154
Loc: Columbus, OH
I checked and found it again - if you click on "my profile" at the top of the page and click on "view/update profile", then down at the bottom is a question "Allow your user rating to be publicly displayed?" where you can indicate "yes" or "no".

By the way, I have a west coast sense of humor which almost nobody seems to understand.

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#183378 - 09/06/01 08:02 AM Re: home from nyc piano shopping trip
David Burton Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/28/01
Posts: 1757
Loc: Coxsackie, New York
Thanks Mike.
_________________________
David Burton's Blog
http://dpbmss041010.blogspot.com/

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#183379 - 09/07/01 03:43 PM Re: home from nyc piano shopping trip
Jeffrey Lee Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 07/27/01
Posts: 3
I am interested in your comment regarding the August Forster and Mason & Hamlin. Could you post your experience with them. Thank.

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#183380 - 09/07/01 05:59 PM Re: home from nyc piano shopping trip
piqué Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/15/01
Posts: 5483
i'm not sure who you were addressing your request to, but since i played both august forsters and mason & hamlins on my trip, i'll answer.

both these uprights are very fine and well made instruments. however, they were not to my taste. they have similar characteristics of tone and touch, now that i think about it. there is a lot of clarity in the tone, but it is also on the colder side. the action was looser than i like, as well, without the subtlety or nuance that i look for.

but if you are looking for clarity and brilliance, they may be a good choice for you.
_________________________
piqué

now in paperback:


Grand Obsession: A Piano Odyssey

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