Hi. If you've been reading many of my posts here, you know I have been searching for a DP as a second piano("bells and whistles"for fun and creativity) for my daughter for about a month now! We went back to some piano stores for the third time yesterday to compare. We had narrowed it down to either the Kawai MP6 or the Roland FP-7f.

This time, my daughter played the FP-7f first (and this time we had them put it on a sturdy surface instead of the rickety stand!). She liked the sound, but didn't quite like the action. She said she had trouble playing soft (pp or p). Perhaps this could be adjusted with some control settings, though? The sales clerks there didn't seem to be too familiar with how to fine-tune the controls, or even how to use many of the features! My daughter also thought that there was a bit of a milli-second delay between when she pressed the key and heard the sound. Is that also a function of a setting, perhaps? Or are all dp's like that?

Then we went to the Kawai store. They didn't have the MP6 at this one (though we had tried one last month at the store's other, farther away branch) She played the CN33, though, which has the same action and same sound (PHI) as the MP6 (though I believe the MP6 has greater polyphony. Is the sound otherwise the same? Would that make a difference in how it sounded under normal playing?)

My daughter liked the Kawai action better than the Roland, but after hearing the Roland supernatural sound first, the Kawai didn't sound as good to her as it had last month when she tried the Kawai first (That is why you never have the back-up band play after the main attraction!). Before, when we had tried the Kawai first, she was quite pleased with its sound (compared to the Yamahas she had just tried.)

So what is a mother to do!!! Is there any chance that Kawai might issue a sound upgrade in the future, as they are developed, and that we could purchase it to upgrade the MP6's sound? Is that possible with this model? I would sure feel better about spending the money if I knew it wouldn't go "out-of-date" so quickly, too.

I have to say that Kawais's better sound on the CA 's(UHPI)did sound a bit more pleasing to the ear. both my daughter and I noticed the difference. Maybe they shoud take a clue from Roland, who is putting their SN sound in all pianos now, and put their best in to all of theirs. AFterall- it is just on a computer--how much more would the software upgrade actually cost Kawai? And in their stage piano, for heaven sakes--where lots of people could potentially HEAR the sound and see the name "Kawai" on it, you would think they would want to make sure, for the sake of their reputation,that they put their "best foot forward," so to speak.

I am at the point where I feel like I should just put off buying a new DP until technology reaches more of a "leveling off point", and just keep looking for a good deal on a used one until then. However, I think my daughter would be so disapointed. So what should I do- go with the Kawai or Roland? At this point, I am not even too worried about the price difference. I just don't want to have an over $1500 dust collector. I want to make sure she is inspired and encouraged to play it. Thanks.

Action quality is much more important than sound. Though she may like the Roland sound better (many people do), the Kawai sound is adequate. Further, if the sound becomes an annoyance in the future, you can hook it to a computer and use a software piano that will sound much better than either Kawai or Roland. There's nothing you can ever do about an action that's not quite as good.

Inferior sounds don't really harm your technique, whereas playing on an inferior action can change your playing habits in a way that doesn't translate to acoustics as well. It also affects the enjoyment of playing significantly.

If she likes the Kawai action better, I would definitely go that direction.

Regarding your specific questions, I'm pretty sure there is no noticeably latency in any current DP, so the delay between playing and the sound was most likely in her head. The Roland does have a much lighter action, though, which some people feel makes it hard to play quietly with as much control. I actually sort of count myself in that group.

It's funny, I'd almost like the reverse, I think I'd prefer the Kawai MP10 sound in something closer to a Roland FP-7F action! Though either of those boards are too heavy for me to carry around. I'm don't really care so much for the MP6 sound, though.

The thing is, that "levelling off point" never happens! There will always be compromises and differences between brands. The turnover of DP models is very slow so I think you'd be better off choosing the best one you can find now and just be done with it. You could seriously wait a decade for what you want to eventuate. I'm sure your daughter is less worried about this than you are so I'd say bite the bullet and buy your favourite DP now - which seems to be the MP6. Don't forget that the MP6 doesn't have built in speakers so there is the additional hassle of finding monitors that you actually like the sound of. The FP7 has built in speakers which is useful even if they aren't the greatest speakers in the world.

I'd say get the MP6 which has the action she likes best. For her I'm guessing she will get much more annoyed with an action she doesn't like than with a sound she doesn't like. I think you are going to make a good choice either way as these are 2 of the most talked about pianos here and preferred by many.

If you haven't done this already maybe just before the final decision maybe make sure your daughter has played for awhile on both (go thru a typical practice routine) and played a variety of pieces sitting down and at proper playing height. (not standing, etc)

Then get her to spend some time getting to the extras (sounds, layers, drums,etc) to see how she like that and how easy it is to get around. I say this because no matter how many extras the dp has if it's too complicated she will get frustrated and potentially just ignore all the extras. (I found this was the case for me in testing the yamaha CP50, plus years ago I had a synth that was top of the line and powerful but I simply didn't have the time to learn it)

The simplicity of the P155 really just let's you get down to playing. Ive heard the MP6 is simple to.

If she will be practicing through headphones a lot then I'd say get the FP-7F. The sound will probably be less disappointing long-term, and she could even do fairly good quality solo recordings with it. Roland's best keys are in there too, though of course that is a highly personal decision. It might be worth having your daughter test the FP-7F after a factory reset and with good headphones. I'd also suggest you turn off the reverb, turn up the sympathetic resonance, and maybe open the lid some.

Kawai doesn't put their best sound in all of the models probably because they feel they need something to justify the price differences between the product tiers. I don't agree with it, but most manufacturers seem to play this game. Marketing trumps everything nowadays.

I think it sounds like the MP6 is best for your daughter as she prefers that action. Down the road you can upgrade the sound with software pianos. But don't wait, just bite the bullet and go for it as I think she will have a blast with it.

What seems strange to me is that your daughter could play pp better on the kawai, could it be that the roland needed to be reset? Sometimes people in stores trying pianos fiddle with the settings and this can result in a bad experience when trying the piano. It's happened to me too when I went to the store, and I looked in the menus to reset all the pianos I tried.

Dear Fun2Learn,

This seems to be a common dilemma here. My answer would be:

- I think the most important quality of the DP is the keyboard. This is the part that you can not change, ever, and the part that you physically interact with every single time you play a note.

- You seem to like the action of the Kawai model better than the Roland one, and like the sound of the Roland model better than the Kawai one.

- If you go with Kawai, you can enhance (or you may even call it "fix") the sound with using a software piano. (I assume you own at least one notebook or desktop computer.) Then, in 1-2 years, you can update to an other software piano (cost in the 100-200 EUR range). You can have a new DP sound every year! I expect the coming next versions Galaxy pianos, Pianoteq and Ivory to progressively get better and better ... but even the current versions can run in circles about any current digital pianos, concerning the sound quality - including Roland's SN sound.

- If you go with the Roland, you can not ever do anything with the keyboard. You will have to keep playing it, for years, while thinking "I don't really like this action".

* * *

I can not talk for anybody else, but to me, this seems quite a clear choice: go with the Kawai!

Best wishes:

Kristof

That's what I was thinking too. Maybe someone set the Key Touch to "Light"?

Factory reset for the FP-7F:

Function | Factory Reset | Piano | Tempo +

I think the FP-7F is perhaps the more complete or "polished" product out of the two. But I too liked the Kawai MP6's action perhaps a little more.

I'm not sure I agree that action is way more important than sound. To my mind they are both paramount. You have to like the sound of your piano or you will not play it - but of course you have to like the feel too.

Hooking up a sample library to the Kawai for instance may well give you the best of both worlds and it could certainly be the solution but I'm not sure it is always quite so straight-forward. Getting the right feeling of connection between keys and an external sound source (such as a sample library) is not guaranteed to work easily or quickly every time. Lots of tweaking and experimentation may be necessary and even then it may never quite feel the same as when you play a DP's native sounds. You will have to have a certain degree of technical knowledge and confidence to successfully fiddle around with this kind of solution and you will need to be prepared to wait for a computer to fire-up every time you want to play the piano. Likewise, in an aesthetic sense you will have to tolerate wires trailing and a less clean and simple look when the computer is hooked up to the piano.

So I don't think it is quite as easy as saying "pick the one with the action you like best". It might well be worth going back and revisiting the Roland. The action is slightly lighter than most and it might take a bit of getting used to. On the other hand whilst you are of the opinion the Kawai sounds inferior to the Roland you might feel that despite that it is "good enough".

All these things are a compromise.

Good luck,

Steve

Steve - you have three excellent DPs - the Nord, a Kawai, and a Yamaha AG - which do *you* prefer (when playing over headphones)?

Maybe another possibility to consider http://azpianonews.blogspot.com/2012/01/review-kawai-ce220-digital-piano.html

Another vote to not worry about sound. Just get Ivory II for sound.

Also...Take what Essbrace says seriously. There is a whole lot to a software piano. It can be mind boggling. The payback in sound is outstanding.

We have Roland Fp-7F at home, solely used for daughter's practice. Ocassionally she has trouble in keeping the same quality of piece she practiced at home, when performing at teacher's Yamaha Grand Piano

Thinking of replacing the Roland with Kawai CS6, but only after testing in one of the local shops.

Great question! Been playing the AG this evening and that is the best overall experience (as it should be given its price) but being limited just to headphones and purely in terms of sound I'd probably say Nord if only for the character and variety. So if the sound engines of each piano were just in module form and you controlled them from a separate master keyboard I'd say Nord then Kawai then AG but that doesn't take account of the AG's four channel sound (neither does playing it through headphones of course). When playing through onboard speakers and at a realistic volume the AG is fantastically good.

If you introduce key action into the equation then it would certainly be AG then Kawai followed some way behind by Nord.

By the way, I have to say I think I have FOUR excellent DPs! And in terms of dynamics and expressiveness the old RD trumps the lot of them (it's not sample based).

Cheers,

Steve

Thanks Steve - about what I expected. Now just imagine a top action in the Nord
(not disputing the AG's special status due to the sound system).

Oh yes, if only!

I was wondering the same thing, Vivat! Unfortunately, the sales clerks in the store weren't sure about how to reset it. Could you tell me how(if it is simple.)thanks

Oops- I didn't read through all the replies before I asked Vivat how to reset the rp-4f. I see that Dewster has answered that question for me already. Thanks so much everyone for your answers and opinions and sharing of your experiences. They are very helpful. I think we should go back and try that reset on the Roland. though I am concerned about what Suniil said about his (or her?) daughter having trouble transferring to the acoustic. Does she have any idea why? Is it the action?
I still don't think anyone has anwered my question whether or not the MP6 sound could be "updated." Does anyone know if that is possible. I did read in another post where someone talked about making sure their MP6 had the latest "firmware" (I'm not sure what that meant exactly.)
Thanks, and good night.

oops again- I meant to say the RP-7f. Is is late here on the east coast. My husband is ready to call the doctor to cure my "late night foruming" sickness, LOL!

Fun2Learn, as with most digital pianos, the MP6's internal sounds cannot be updated.
However, the software/firmware which 'drives' the instrument can, allowing any reported bugs to be fixed or new features to be implemented.

Kind regards,
James
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Thanks, James. It would be very cool if it could be done. I think I understand, from reading posts here, that some pianos do have that feature (updatable sounds), correct?

Fun2Learn, yes I agree. This is one of the strongest features of Clavia's 'Nord' range (along with their portability) - of which I'm a big, big fan.

James
x

I just checked out the Nords again, James. They are quite expensive, too. The idea of being able to update the sounds is fantastic. From what I gather, though, from reading threads here, is their action not as "realistic" as Kawai and Rolands?Is that what separates something called a "keyboard" from a "digital piano?" I am not sure if I understand the difference.
Also, my daughter didn't think the red would look very good in her turquoise bedroom, (it would clash with the lime green and purple accents, especially), so that is the real deal breaker here, LOL!

Thanks everyone for your comments and interesting observations,and comparisions. I agree with EssBrace that sound is also important. If it grates on the ear, or just isn't appealing,I am sure my daughter will not play it as much. I appreciate the info on the software piano and what is involved, the pros and cons of it, etc. My daughter is not wanting to have to mess around with having to attach a computer to it--though perhaps in the future she would. (Maybe if she ever has her own laptop?)



I think you summed up our dilemma nicely, EssBrace. That is exactly what dear daughter is feeling--the FP-7f is more "polished" (but more expensive)and looks more like a home piano with its wood stand, but she prefers the Kawai aciton!

Myabe if I keep stalling, eventually either Kawai will have a model in our price rante with top-of-the-line sound, or Roland will come out with the "perfect" action.
Thanks again to everyone--I have read all your replies sevral times- at least.

suniil- Is that your daughter singing "How Great Thou Art"? She has a beautiful voice!