Hi everyone. I just received a reply to my earlier inquiry to a Craigs list ad for a "too-good-too-be true" $1600 1973 Yamaha C3 grand in excellent condition. (See my earlier post: http://www.pianoworld.com/forum/ubbthrea...tml#Post1833350

Several of you knew immediately that it was a scam that was posted in various cities across the country, with the same exact photos and ad wording. Thanks so much for letting me know (and I did pass the info on to Craigslist.)
Well, the reply I received today from the scammer had such an implausable story, that it was amusingly funny. I just thought I'd share, for those of you who could use a laugh. See if you can spot the impossible scenario in her storyline, copied below:


Did you catch what doesn't "jive " about her storyline? She says that the piano has been in her living room of her home since it was purchsed in the early 1970's, but she is selling it because now she is expecting a baby and needs to move to an apartment with more room for the baby and needs the money for the deposit. Anyone who bought a piano in the 1970's would clearly be way too old to be having a baby now, about 40 years later! And it is highly unlikely that a home with a living room large enough to hold a 6' grand piano all these years wouldn't have room to hold a baby! Also, the photos she posts show the piano in a very spacious living room. Moving from a large home like that to an apartment would be more of a downsize! If the FBI could get involved in tracking this scammer down, they shouldn't have too difficult of a time-- she is obviously not that clever!

Just for fun, reply to Ms. Beasley and tell her you want the piano and will be there tomorrow afternoon with cash in hand and a piano mover... she what she says!

Rick

The scammer must be hoping that the image of a cute little newborn baby will distract you from the details. Nice touch

Scammers make my blood boil

FBI? Hopefully they are busy with real crime.

At this point it is not completely guaranteed this is a scam. Either these people are brilliant scamming geniuses or just not that swift. Maybe the piano is in her parents home. Maybe the ad was posted in more than one city because they goofed up posting the ad. If I were running a scam I would be asking for $160,000 not $1600 to make it worth my while and would be selling fake iPads, the hottest new thing, and not ancient piano technology. The lady really sound pretty genuine. Most scammers are way too lazy to spend so much time running such an elaborate scam for so little reward.

I give it 51% to 49% it is not a scam. You just don't know until you know.

It's 100% likely it's a scam. There is no as in zero chance that it's legit.

Actually, - I am sorry that I didn't take the time to repost all the incriminating evidence that was posted here, in reply to my earlier post about this piano. I should have also mentioned the fact that this very piano was listed and sold on ebay (for over $8000, I might add)back in December. One photo shows the piano in exactly the same room, as well as copies most of the wording of the ad. The ebay seller of that piano on ebay sounds a legit, providing a phone number, his full name, and instructions to call and try out the piano in person before bidding. I assume that the scammer just copied the photos and ads and posted on craigslist. Next time I see an ad that sounds too good to be true, I will google to see if it also comes up on ebay!

I think I will take Rickster's advice and try his suggestion. I'll let you know what she says!

Well, I wouldn’t want you to dance with the devil or flirt with evil…

In any event, here might be a likely response:

“Thank you so much for your interest in our lovely Yamaha piano. Yes, we will gladly sell you the piano for our asking price, but will not be able to show it to you this afternoon because I have a doctor’s appointment. If you would, please wire the money in advance and we will hold the piano for you. You can come and look at it and have your movers move it after we receive the funds. Thank you so much!”

Of course, it would be nice if law enforcement was aware of the situation.

On the other hand, it is best not to mess with criminals.

Rick

Assuming the scammer didn't say the exact city the piano is in during the correspondence, I bet I know how they would reply to an "I'll buy it today!" offer. They will say the piano is in a different state and they can have it shipped to you in a few days. If you don't like it, you can send it back.

Chances are high that, at first, they may not even ask you to pay the price for the imaginary piano, just the price for shipping. Then if you pay it, they'll invent reasons for you to pay continuously more.
The most profitable scams are the ones that build up over time. People are more willing to risk a few dollars than a few thousand. But once they put a few dollars into it, they start throwing good money after bad.

I almost fell for another CL scam last November. Someone posted a Yamaha and he was willing to give it up for free. I respond to the post although feeling fishy and got a reply almost immediately. The email was as follow:

Yes this piano is still available right now,I am currently located at Indiana and I have already asked movers to bring the piano here from my grand-son's house and was going to put up a new ad here . Where are you based please? If you are able to afford the delivery charges I can coordinate the movers to return and as I only gave them the instruction yesterday evening, and I'm sure they will request for fees in turn.

I bought the piano for him as his birthday gift last year august. Its a YAMAHA U10-A 48. It is two months now since he died and I would like for it to be passed out, as the house will be emptied soon and I myself will be relocating to Winnipeg, Canada where I shall stay with other family members for care.Please let me know your position maybe I can contact the movers. I have attached a photo of it. This was taken two weeks ago.

Best regard

Thanks


In the next exchange of email he wanted me to pay the mover $300 to re-route and I started to google about it and found this same scam was on other CL lists in the west part of US in the past month. And there were also other similar scams involved items like motorcycles, etc.

I just feel the wording in those email are sort of similar and would say I strongly feel it's a scam. I did entertain the idea of flirting with the devil but then decide my time is too precious for that.

This is the same story (baby, low price for loan/apt, need a quick sale) I got when I replied to an ad listed in the Bay Area. I replied saying I would like to look at it and then she said they were in MT and the piano was already crated up but was ready for shipment; the transaction would be done through google merchant. They used a different name and I couldn't find anyone searching for the name used. Searching for the same email address I saw a car listing for the same exact price.

Afterwards I saw a few ads that were the same or similar. Sometimes using the same email address, sometimes not.

I've seen almost this exact wording too. When I responded, the piano turned out to be in Bozeman, MT (I'm in Georgia), and that if I would only wire some money, they would send it to me.

In just a few months of watching Craig's List every day, I saw the same picture in multiple different ads - they were all scams, and the ads were removed quickly.

I finally did find a project piano (I was looking for something to restore), but not through Craig's List.

Sam

You definitely have to be very careful on CL… usually, if you can get in touch with the seller/buyer by phone, you can usually get a gut feeling as to whether or not they are even close to legit.

Of course, some crooks and scam artists have a silver tongue…

Sam, how’s that C Bechstein Model L grand restoration coming along? The pictures on your blog are great!

Rick

Slow... In about a year I'll invite you out to play it!

Sam

I purchased a piano on CL this month. I replied to the ad with the usual skepticism, as I had myself been accused of being a scammer when trying to respond to other listings, but it turned out to be a reputable business person and well-known Piano World member! I'm hoping to receive it next week, and I will take some pictures and put them here...

Congratulations, SteveM!

There are some happy, success stories regarding CL. I too have bought a couple of pianos advertised on CL, and I've sold one I advertised on CL.

You just have to try and weed out the cranks and crooks.

We will all look forward to the pictures!

Rick

Yes, Craigslist can be great or it can be terrible. It's not really Craigslist, it's human nature. I suppose the old printed classifieds were just as bad but since they were listed by thousands of local newspapers and penny saver type publications there was no one "Big Fish" like Craigslist to blame things on when they went wrong. I myself love Craigslist and have gotten some really good bargains, but I always try to see if it passes the smell test before I buy anything. Still, scammers are getting more clever all the time and when something actually works it makes the rounds and all of a sudden lots of people are trying out their new tool on unsuspecting victims. Buyer beware is the best advise, but when it works Craigslist is a beautiful thing.

There are scammers everywhere, on the internet, in email and on Craigslist but we still use them all. Craigslist is probably still the best way form most people to buy and sell their piano privately. I bought one and sold one and had no trouble.

Unfortunately, there are those who scam face-to-face as well... Makes for a very confusing and overwhelming experience for folks who are looking in all those places for information and/or products... Guess it simply drives home just how important homework & finding trusted neutral opinions are--especially with major purchases...

With craigslist, there are different levels of risk.

Level 1) the item is not as described. In general, I think this happens a lot and with pianos the percentage is probably over 1/2 of those listed. Of those, maybe half are intentional and the rest from ignorance. The risk is mostly time wasted. Maybe money on an inspection.

Level 2) it's a scam. Includes stolen goods, counterfeit goods, or an attempt at stealing personal information & money. A lot of these are sloppy, but the good ones go unnoticed longer. Any larger ticket item is fodder for this including new(ish) electronics, cars & pianos. A piano's age & condition is masked (how many 5-10 year old uprights are actually 35-45 years old?), or some fatal flaw is said to "just need a tuning." I see ancient Brambachs with Baldwin or Steinway decalsA lot more people are victim to this than will admit it.

Any day of the week, I can look through Atlanta's CL and find some examples of this if you search for pianos and know what you are looking for.

Level 3) the person with the ad has a whole other purpose. Robbery, sexual assaults and even murders have originated with craigslistings. For robbery, medium priced and higher items may create a target. Scary.

I bought just a few things on CL several years ago and survived to tell the tale, but no longer think of it as this great online flea market. "Buyer Beware" doesn't cover it. Ebay changed private selling culture. CL has changed private selling culture by thriving in the gaps not covered by ebay. It would be nice if one of the zillions of cheap classified services had taken off, but the power of FREE brought all comers. And FREE makes the risk to the predators ZERO.

Yes- that is exactly the same story the scammer sent me. Now note, the day before yesterday she said the piano hasn't been moved since the 1970's, and today it is in Montanta in a warehouse! Wow- that was pretty quick, LOL.
I spent some time today emailing all the info to Craigslist, as well as trying to find where to send the info to google checkout (since she said that is what she would use.)I couldn't find any place to send info on scams to them. I also sent the info to some consumer fraud organization. The government links that are on the Craigslist site only seem to be set up to handle complaints from people who have actually lost money from scams. I am so sad that this is happening to Craigslist and ebay.
Oh well- I did my part. thanks again for all your help.