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Joined: Aug 2009
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Not as long as your relationship is disclosed. No, because my primary goal here was to get impressions on the artistic side, which has noting to do with the tool used. of course I am proud to see that this makes Vienna Imperial looks good, which is also a goal, but I am a composer and pianist as well and I enjoy getting feedback independently of the software I use which I think is perfectly normal.
Last edited by guybacos; 01/30/12 03:32 PM.
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VSL and Ivory II German Grand just feel closer to the real deal. So the German Grand is the same instrument as the Ivory ii Steinway, I'm assuming? I'm going to check out the demos of the Steinway up at the Ivory site, plus any others I can listen to. JG Yes
Last edited by synergy543; 01/31/12 12:23 AM.
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No, because my primary goal here was to get impressions on the artistic side, And how did that work out for you?
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Billy-billy, people came with pre-conceptions, and sticks and stones (and billy clubs). People such as yourself (with your nine posts). Why so much animosity dude?
When you (if you ever) finish the entire Chopin 24- Etudes, is it a crime to want to share that? And even if you're hired by a company to make it on their product, is it wrong to want to know how your piers think about your performance without bias towards the product? How can you do that if you state up front about the product. Then the focus is on the product or the method rather than on the artist efforts that the you worked on for so long.
Last edited by synergy543; 01/30/12 05:32 PM.
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When you (if you ever) finish the entire Chopin 24- Etudes, is it a crime to want to share that? And even if you're hired by a company to make it on their product, is it wrong to want to know how your piers think about your performance without bias towards the product? How can you do that if you state up front about the product. Then the focus is on the product or the method rather than on the artist efforts that the you worked on for so long.
The cluster**** that happened here because of Guy's "experimental advertising" is all the answer you need.
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So great to hear her do the Schubert!!! Those octaves, at that speed, if you've ever tried them are unbelievably difficult... I've always found them harder to do than, say, the bouncing octaves Brahms likes to toss off (last movement of the BFlat Major PC, for example).
Listening to more Lisitsa... who can resist? A wee bit intimidating the way she just drops into the Rach 1, getting all the inner voices dead on accurate, plus waltzing through the octaves in the right hand like they were nothing at all.
A bit off topic, but I think this is still her best performance I've seen: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zGBXA1tBiLwI have no words for this. I could watch it all day! Kinda makes you wonder whether the video has been speeded up!!!! She's something else! This piece, as it happens, but in the original for piano and orchestra, was my favorite piano music at the tender and impressionable age of 6. It was all I could listen to.... Must have driven my parents insane. Then I started played (my improvised version) on the old upright... hmmm ...my sisters suffered through all that... I thought I was pretty superior when I decided that the Tchiakovsky pc 1 was a "better" piece. Ahhh youth....
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VSL and Ivory II German Grand just feel closer to the real deal. So the German Grand is the same instrument as the Ivory ii Steinway, I'm assuming? I'm going to check out the demos of the Steinway up at the Ivory site, plus any others I can listen to. JG Well, yes and no. The German Grand is the same as the Ivory II Steinway. However, they just released a new Steinway so there are now two. I have the Ivory II German Steinway. The German Steinway and the VSL Imperial Grand have very different tone but of all the pianos I have, those are the two that "feel like a piano" under my fingers when I play. The others really feel more like "samples" and often have various problems I can't tolerate. The VSL has far more velocity layers and you do notice this when you play delicate music such as Chopin. I'm not a concert pianist as Guy Bacos is so the difference may be greater for a more advanced performer than me. I'm not quite sure how well the Chopin Etudes would work with the Ivory II German Steinway for example. I can't answer that. As for the VSL Vienna Imperial, Guy has really taken it to the test with the Chopin Etudes. I would think everyone here at PW would be applauding his efforts rather than ripping him apart, attacking him and putting him on the defensive (gosh this isn't football). So thanks to Guy, you now all know what the VSL Vienna Imperial can sound like with the Chopin Etudes which I think is an absolutely amazing achievement on its own and wonderful reference for comparison. Well... this is the wild world of online piano "performance"..... And what Guy was expected to do... but took too long to do.... and did so reluctantly when he did.... was a weee "mea culpa"? Why the "mea culpa"? Why so important? Well... because many pianists work long and hard at mastering technique, and when something is posted that isn't playing by those rules--whether the mistake was an honest one or otherwise--etiquette says you have to apologize for inadvertently misleading folks.... yup... even if that wasn't your intention. Some might say "ethics" requires it. Others have even suggested that where commercial considerations enter into it, it's a whole new kettle, and the stakes are much higher than I'm suggesting. I'll just settle for the Etiquette argument...
Last edited by johngrant; 01/30/12 07:20 PM.
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Nasal? Yes! Both the Ivory 1 Bosie and the Galaxy Vienna Bosie have that character.
But I don't hear that on recordings of a real Bosie. Why? I wish I knew... But you are absolutely right!
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John, you and Guy's feud is confusing to me. I wish it was all contained within one thread so it would make sense. Within this thread I didn't see Guy misleading anyone and I hardly see anything to argue about. He clearly made the demos and he's clearly supported by VSL. Seems fine to me. He's not even the one that started this thread to bring attention to them.
Guy seems to be a great pianist undertaking a pretty challenging task and his stuff sounds pretty good. You've been looking for critiques of the VSL tone and few people have much to say about it. Beyond that I've seen a lot of you guys getting mad at each other, but not much reason for it.
I'm fine with forum fights, but let's only fight if there's something concrete to fight about that everyone can read. Otherwise it's just nonsense.
Last edited by gvfarns; 01/30/12 07:30 PM.
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Guy, for what it's worth, I think you are reading more hostility into John's comments than appears to be intended (perhaps I needed to read another thread to know why). A well-done recording by Lisista on a real Bosey surely is a benchmark that any Bosey VST demo aspires to. It would be very baffling if any VST was better in any dimension than the real thing. The aspiration is to be equally good.
John wants to start a discussion analyzing the ability of the VST to replicate the tone. As I sort of mentioned, my opinion is that there is functionality VSL could add and it could definitely be argued that it is too expensive, but as far as the tone is concerned, it's pretty much indistinguishable from a recording of the real thing--it is, after all, a real recording. John or others may disagree about the indistinguishability, and I'm interested in what they are hearing--it takes a good pair of ears. I don't think anything they say is meant to paint VSL or you in a particularly bad light.
Naturally you are defensive about your demos, which you obviously put some good care into and which are very effective. Now, though, I think it's time to set them free and let them be subject to as much critisism as anyone has to offer. Any critiques that are wrong will simply be dismissed and forgotten. That's the way of things in forums. You'd have to read the original thread, i know he's trying to make it look very friendly on this thread, but it's his sneaky way of wanting to prove something. For me he is showing his weaknesses rather than embracing something that has clearly a lot of positive things to say about, even though NOT the real deal, and his extreme negative and relentless reaction on the previous thread shows that very well. If John has problems with his own failures he should not transfer that on others. Honestly, Guy, I invite anyone and everyone to read all the threads where I have held forth on this subject.
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i know he's trying to make it look very friendly on this thread, but it's his sneaky way of wanting to prove something. The only sneaky one here is YOU Guy.
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You are all crazy. I'm out of here.
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John, you and Guy's feud is confusing to me. I wish it was all contained within one thread so it would make sense. Within this thread I didn't see Guy misleading anyone and I hardly see anything to argue about. He clearly made the demos and he's clearly supported by VSL. Seems fine to me. He's not even the one that started this thread to bring attention to them.
Guy seems to be a great pianist undertaking a pretty challenging task and his stuff sounds pretty good. You've been looking for critiques of the VSL tone and few people have much to say about it. Beyond that I've seen a lot of you guys getting mad at each other, but not much reason for it.
I'm fine with forum fights, but let's only fight if there's something concrete to fight about that everyone can read. Otherwise it's just nonsense. I hope I don't sound like I'm fighting. You'll note that I've said nothing about or to Guy personally. My interest has been the sample, which I in fact rather like. My last post gets into the midi-editing process itself. That's what goes on here. That's what this forum is partly about. If I post stuff, I want to hear criticism. Again, I'm sorry if Guy doesn't like my criticisms of his midi, but I have to call'm as I see'm. Anything else would be dishonest of me. Also, although I'm a midi guy myself, I've said that I completely sympathize with the folks here who think there should be disclosure right from the getgo about what the process is. Again, Guy's attacked me personally here, now on numerous occasions. I'm not responding to those personal attacks other than to say I'm reading them, and of course I can't fail to notice them. I will not be responding to him in kind. Flaming is soooo tedious!
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John -
I think everyone here knows your intentions are good (save the Guy Bacos Fan Club).
What I find funny is this advertising scheme completely backfired. Knowing VSL employs these people and tactics, I would NEVER buy anything of theirs, no matter how good it sounds... and I am contacting them to tell them so.
Bottom line: people do NOT like to be tricked, scammed, spammed and they WILL fight back.
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Synergy, don't bother wasting your time here, people at PianoStreet are classy and civilize, it's quite refreshing! You'll never see me on this forum anymore. Just note that one guy from here tried to cause trouble over there, but he is more making a fool of himself. I wonder which one it is from this group. Billy-Billy perhaps? Johngrant? rw? Mark? But it is obvious he needs to get a life, or some work in music.
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You'll never see me on this forum anymore. You've said that so many times, yet you are still here. Also, your attitude proves that you were not here to be an active participant.. just here to peddle your products. As soon as the jig is up, time to pack up and move on to the next town. The medicine show is leaving town folks! Last chance to get your elixer!
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Synergy, don't bother wasting your time here, people at PianoStreet are classy and civilize, it's quite refreshing. No worries guy. I'm not inclined to share with these folks anymore. In fact, I just deleted the useful information that I posted on this forum. Their loss.
Last edited by synergy543; 01/31/12 12:32 AM.
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Synergy, don't bother wasting your time here, people at PianoStreet are classy and civilize, it's quite refreshing. No worries guy. I'm not inclined to share with these folks anymore. In fact, I just deleted the useful information that I posted on this forum. Their loss. Is that the Internet equivalent of taking your ball and going home? Listen, it was a good try at a guerilla marketing campaign but the denizens here at Piano World are smarter then the average bear.
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Billy boy, you are one very sick man. And clearly not very bright.
I hope you can seek the help that you so clearly need.
Ciao
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Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
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Mommy, mommy, they're being mean to me! 
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