Had an opportunity to stop by Cunningham Piano today - Rich asked me to service a Hammond organ for a client of theirs. Rich was away today so I didn't have the pleasure of meeting him, but did meet many of the people there and look around the showroom. What a place!! Lots of really great pianos and really nice, helpful people.

You've got a first class operation there, Rich!

Dear Ken,

Never in a million years would I have thought that I could use your services like we did yesterday. Thank you!

For anyone who is not aware, Ken Knapp IS Dr. Hammond Organ. If you own one, know of one, or need some troubleshooting, Ken is your man!

I am sorry I couldn't be here to meet you in person, Ken. I know you were focused on the organ repair, but I hope you at least walked part of the showroom. Did you meet the staff? Did you get upstairs to the recital area? Did you tour our rebuilding facility in the other building?

Thanks again,

It’s nice to read about these “close encounters of the Piano World kind”.

There is no doubt that Ken knows his stuff when it comes to electronics and repairing electrical keyboard instruments in particular. The way I see it, any time you are in a business where you fix something and help people solve problems, that is a good business to be in.

Besides all that, Ken is nice guy!

I wish I could visit Cunningham Piano myself! If I’m ever in that neck of the woods, I just might stop by.

Rick

What a cozy affectionate business relationship here between the salesman and the moderators.

Dear Sock,

I don't think I have ever met a person through PW that I did not like. I have never used Ken before, but if I have the opportunity, I will again. He is professional... and he signs his posts with his real name.

Oh, we’ve definitely uncovered a conspiracy here. Ken visits Rich’s store and comments about it! Terrible! To make matters worse they both sign their actual names—but have we seen their legal birth certificates?—and they both have indicated their industry affiliation. We’re really going to have to watch out for these guys!

ddf

Yes! *gasp* I think I might repair an organ tomorrow.. or not.. Maybe Rich will demo or sell a piano. I tell you, nothing gets past Mr. Sock Puppet. I hope I never have such a sour attitude... Thanks Del!

And thank you Rickster and Rich! I did get a chance to meet many of the staff, a bunch of kind gentlemen and lovely ladies. Why they offered us refreshments even after it was established that Jason and I were not there to buy a piano!!! Probably because of our cozy affectionate business relationship!! LOL!

I saw the downstairs showrooms and was impressed with them and did not realize what was upstairs. Did not get to see the rebuilding shop, but that can be for next time. It's too bad it's a 3 hour drive one way..

PS - Everyone should check out Mr. Sock Puppet's videos from his link in his sig. He might not say who he is but I enjoyed his playing!

oh man...another "Cunningham is so great" and "Rich is so nice" thread...

*ROFL*

You're a pretty nice guy yourself, Eric!

Allow me to paraphrase the thread above.

Ken writes:

Rich was away today so I didn't have the pleasure of meeting him. What a place!! First class operation!!


Rich answers:

Never in a million years would I have thought that I could use your services like we got from Ken today. Thank you! Ken Knapp IS Dr. Hammond Organ. Ken is your man! I am sorry I couldn't be here to meet you in person, Ken.

So Rich (salesman) hires Ken (moderator) and Ken immediately plugs him on PW. One unfamiliar with the situation might think of this as tit for tat.

I'll vouch that Rich is a great guy. And, I am very thankful for all the work he does promoting music. Everything from pop and jazz to opera. Rich and Tim seem to be the only people who are putting out an effort at the grass roots level in tri-state area. Again, something I am very thankful for.

Well, the sock is right… I’d do business with Rich or Ken in heart-beat! In fact, I feel like I can trust either of those guys with the greatest of confidence. I’d call that a cozy business relationship. Hey, that’s what you want in a business relationship, is it not? Don’t you want to be able to trust someone who you deal with in business? Someone you know a little something about?

Rich probably doesn’t need the services of a professional organ technician on a regular basis… he knew about Ken through Piano World. Ken knows Rich through Piano World. What the heck is wrong with that? Fact is, I’ll bet Piano World is one of the best business networking forums on the Internet in regards to pianos and the piano industry? Is that a form of advertising? No; it's a form of networking.

Most people join Piano World to ask questions and learn more about all things piano related. The wealth of information from piano industry professionals, technicians, musicians and piano enthusiast is enormous. That is networking.

There are some of the best piano industry professionals in the world who are members of "Piano World". This is a high class forum with high class members… well, mostly.

Rick

P.S. Oh yea, I’m not done having my say yet… why is it that some members have to pick on the moderators when they post a thread or have something to say that is not directly related to moderating? The moderators are members too.

Okay, I’m done now…

Sock,

Well, one could look at it that way. Perhaps one could also look at it as, "You were not there, sorry I missed you, nice place.." too.

But no matter, no harm, no foul.

That is the way I took it Ken. Thanks again.

Not being a moderator or site owner it is not my place to determine the appropriateness of this post.

But it may help reveal where the true loyalities of the moderator are.

I can still hear the smooching noises between Ken (moderator) and Rich (salesman) from here.

Well, I have tried to be kind and understanding and give you a gracious way out.. But (dontcha love these buts?), you do seem INTENT on making a mountain out of a molehill. You do seem intent on stirring up controversy. You do seem intent on impugning innocent people's reputations.

All that seems to have been revealed (once again) are your motives.

On this we can agree.. You're right. It isn't your place.

P.S. If this WAS a back scratching session then I would thank you for getting it carried from a simple couple posts to more than a dozen and keeping it at the top of the forum. *wink* *wink* *nod* *nod*

Sock, though you are entitled to your opinion, you've gone too far. I don't know what your problem is, but you've apparently got a problem here...

Your comment is beyond absurd and ridiculous. Quite frankly, I think you owe Ken and Rich an apology.

I’m not going to lock this thread for Ken’s sake, but I would caution you to be careful what you say from this point on or you will see what else moderators are capable of…

Rick

Rick.

I'll vouch for Ken and Rich both and I've never even met them! But I have read a lot of their posts and they know what they are talking about.

Hmm, I seem to recall that this thread was locked yesterday. Curious. Anyway, I do not think that TheSockPuppet is being malicious, perhaps a bit sarcastic but not malicious. He seems to be pointing out that a conflict of interest might be perceived by those that do not frequent this forum as much as many of us do. I have never met Ken but I have met Rich and visited his establishment. Given that experience and how well this site is administered, I would not give the possibility of any funny business going on a first thought, let alone a second.

Now this thread is back at the top. So Ken, you are welcome.

The nosy ape, you too are entitled to your opinion. However, I must say that I did perceive the sock’s comments as both insulting and malicious. Either way, it was uncalled for and way out of line and I still think he owes Ken and Rich an apology.

As far as the sock’s notion that Ken’s efforts in repairing a Hammond organ for Cunningham Piano and then posting some positive comments about Cunningham Piano’s operation here on the forum having the appearance of a conflict of interest, how so? Do you and the sock think somehow the fact that Ken is a moderator and did some work for another forum member, that is a conflict of interest? Do you think that Rich bribed or otherwise encouraged Ken to post this thread? Give me a break!

I’m quite sure Ken charged for his services; and, it’s a good thing, because he doesn’t get paid for being a moderator.

As far as the thread being locked for a period of time, there is logical explanation for that too… Ken locked the thread about the same time as my last post, where I said I would not lock the thread for Ken’s sake. Ken went back and reopened the thread.

So, there you have it… is that a conflict of interest somehow?

I have nothing against TheSockPuppet… but any more hideous and insulting comments like the one he posted will likely result in some form of forum disciplinary action by the moderators… (Speaking for myself).

Rick

Whoa there Rick. I never said there was any impropriety, in fact I said it never occurred to me that it was even possible. But if you look at it from 50,000 ft. you have a dealer giving the Admin some business and then the Admin giving said dealer a plug. I know it was innocent, you know it was innocent, but a new member or a lurker might look a little sideways at it. That is all I meant.

As far as the thread locking thing goes, I was just curious. OK, a little more than curious because I was afraid my memory was playing tricks on me.

The thing people always forget is that Piano World is a business. And it is NOT in the business of being the "Consumer Reports" of pianos. If anyone is under the impression we are in the "Consumer Reports" business, you are mistaken. Now, Frank B. Does not condone any misleading information being posted and we do what we can to identify and eliminate it. BUT, we do not editorialize, rate, or review pianos. We simply provide a venue for people with a common interest to communicate.

The reason for the rules against self-promotion and self-advertising within the forums is simple. Piano World derives its income through advertising. If people were allowed to run rampant throughout the forum promoting their wares there would be no reason for people to purchase ads. That's it in a nutshell. And if Frank B. found ANYONE's post to be some sort of conflict of interest or not in the best interest of Piano World, he has the power to do whatever he feels is necessary. He also has the right to make exceptions to his own rules whenever he wants, I think Rank Has Its Privileges!!

Thank you Rickster, I appreciate your thoughts and comments. Nosy Ape, I have swapped PM's with Sock Puppet and he has been ok to converse with. However, on open forum most of his commentary is derogatory about someone or something. Like he has a chip on his shoulder. This has colored our view of what he says in this topic, and has not helped his standing on the forum which has been a hair's breadth of permanent banning for a while.

Your memory is just fine.

My long term memory is fantastic… my short term memory is lacking. That can be tough when you rely on your memory to play the piano, rather than reading sheet music.

Rick

Part of the reason people might forget that Piano World is a business, and the business interest takes priority, it that it has never been stated outright as above before.

There is no doubt that most non-professional participants in PW do consider this "Consumer Reports" for pianos. The alternative is too absurd to contemplate, that this forum is mainly here for the benefit and promotion of piano professionals. It is the confusion over this issues which causes someone like me to be in constant trouble.

The professional-consumer relationship is largely an adversarial one. The professional is out to extract as much cash as possible for their services and the consumer is out to pay as little as possible to enjoy of the product.

If there is any restraint on what a consumer can say about a professional on this forum, the only possible result is that this is nothing but an advertising medium for professionals.

Ken's sole purpose for starting this thread was a purely business plug paying Rich back for hiring him. Is Ken allowed to do so without anyone noticing and pointing that out regardless if it were me or anyone else?

Rick says I need to apologize to Ken and Rich but I really don't know what I would be apologizing for. Is it the "smooching noises" comments? It seems quite tame compared to what others have gotten away with.

Since my INTENT has been question, my intent and my only intent, when participating here is to make comments strictly in the interest of the consumer without regard to the professional interest. It is not clear to what I extent I will be permitted to continue.

I disagree.

Ken's purpose from what I read, was to share his excitement at seeing a PW participant's place of business!

Why must there be sour notes? (pun!)

Sock, you are absolutely wrong and your character assault on Ken and Rich continues.


Yes… your comments are raunchy and low-class; and, yes, you still own Ken and Rich an apology in my view.


I’m glad to know that you are the supreme consumer’s advocate on Piano World. The extent to which you will be permitted to continue is a good question. It appears that you have challenged the moderators to take action. It also appears that is what you want, for some reason. If you get suspended or banned, how would that server the consumers here? That would not make you such a good consumer’s advocate in my view.

Rick

Sock,

Geez, who p*ssed in your rice crispies? I'm a consumer here at PW and you don't speak for me. Speak for yourself, Bub, and don't pass yourself off as my protector.

Sheeesh, what nerve.

It has never been a secret that Piano World is a business owned and run by Frank Baxter. Frank's business takes priority here, as it should.

Networking of all kinds, consumers and dealers, is part of the forum. That's the nature of web forums, no? I've used these forums for my own benefit, if Ken and Rich also use the networking aspect here for their benefit, I don't see the problem.

Ditto. I think The Sockpuppet is living up to his name and needs to be ignored permanently.

Molehill is probably an overstatement. Really, given the credibility of the plaintiff, the best defense is no defense at all. Hauling out the soapboxes just turns much ado about nothing into more ado about nothing.

Sock..

You should read the topics more closely. I have stated the above many times. In fact, I state it every time people talk like they have the notion that we are Consumer Reports. And it does not matter what people think the forums are.. They are what they are, period. You or anyone else thinking they are anything different does not change that.

Your sole purpose for posting in this thread is not to protect anyone. Everyone knows I am a moderator. Everyone knows Rich is a dealer. So all you have "revealed" is YOUR SPIN on the topic, nothing else. So what exactly is the big secret you have revealed to us? You have been making snide comments about people on here ever since you registered.

I, for one am tired of it. I am tired of you taking innocent things and trying to make them into cloak and dagger. I am tired of your sour attitude. I am tired of you trying to make good people look bad. From what I see, there are many people who are just as tired as I am.

So I am going to do what I have been TRYING to avoid doing...

You're outta here...

Ken.

"So I am going to do what I have been TRYING to avoid doing...

You're outta here..."
_________________________
Ken

Thank you!!!

Doesn't make much sense to gloat. Banning someone is about the easiest way I know of to win an argument. About all that's been proven here is that stating the obvious, especially in the face of commerce and mundane ambition, is not going to win you the piano world personality sweepstakes.

Mike

Have you been the recipient of Socks B.S. for no good reason Mike? I have. More than once. Just out of the clear blue for no reason whatsoever. He's a trouble maker. Always has been from what I've seen. PW is a good place. The world is full of people that are given 2nd, 3rd, and 5th chances. Enough is enough. Good riddance.

Mike, I honestly do not think anyone is gloating over the banning of the sock; stating their approval, maybe, but not gloating.

You’ve got it all wrong too, about banning to win an argument. There was no argument initiated in this thread, but a nasty, hateful accusation and character attack against two well known and respected members here, moderator or dealer or not. This is not the first time the sock has initiated nasty and hateful behavior toward other members. That is what got him banned.

And, I do not know of any personality sweepstakes up for grabs on the Piano World forums… though credibility is a cherished prize here.

Rick

Rick and Ken,

I would like to respectfully request that The Sock not be banned over this. I never felt insulted or wronged and I believe that folks that are around PW on a regular basis see through this sort of thing easily enough. Folks that are not around long enough at least get to see the balance of reason from other members.

Of course this is not my decision, but I wanted to at least express my feelings on the subject.

Rich,

You are a gentleman.

My concern in all this was and has been the negative comments directed towards you from The Sock, and also his history of negative comments directed towards others.

Because of the respect I hold for you and your opinion (notwithstanding our "cozy affectionate business relationship" ) I will honor your request - with a stern warning to The Sock... You will get along with others. You will not use the forums to troll. You will not use your posting privileges as a personal soapbox to attack other people. You are not the protector of the integrity of the forum: see the post I made about this NOT being Consumer Reports. Your presence shall not be a disruption to the forum. If it becomes disruptive, or if you attack a single person, you will be permanently gone.

Really??? I don't know what to say. With all these rules, I don't know how I could possibly stay out of trouble. I better think it over. If you read through this thread you might find many very harsh things said about me while I have said nothing of that severity to others.

Who says the moderators on Piano World ain’t fair and just and decent and kind-hearted and all around good people!

I’m sure there are some that do, but it would be hard to convince me of it.

Rick

Hey, TheSockPuppet, it really ain’t that hard to follow the forum rules here on PW. Just in case you have never read them, here is an excerpt…

“You agree, through your use of this service, that you will not use this BB to post any material which is knowingly false and/or defamatory, inaccurate, abusive, vulgar, hateful, harassing, obscene, profane, sexually oriented, threatening, invasive of a person's privacy, or otherwise violative of any law”.

*Edit* Oh yea, one more thing… I still think you owe Ken and Rich an apology, and you have Rich to thank for your un-banning/re- admittance to the PW forums.

Rick

You reap what you sow...

And by the way, the guidelines imposed upon you are not difficult to follow. Most people on here follow them just fine. Of course, if you are here just to wreak havoc and cause discontent, then I don't know what to tell you..

And that is what I have been doing? Not that warm a welcome.

Undoubtedly true, but that's never stopped you in the past.

Rick,

I've probably got a lot wrong, but let be explain a bit further. I don't want you to think I didn't consider your comments.

Unfortunately, popularity and credibility have a lot in common, at least on the surface, too much, perhaps, not to recognize that one often disguises itself as the other, especially when the truth happens to coincide with folks’ personal or financial goals, the terms becoming henchmen when at best they are little more than uncomfortable handmaidens, like pride and common sense. Just as easily, the truth often lacks credibility because it is unpopular not unreasonable.

As for the other thing, the only way to argue, by definition, that Ken’s original comments did not create a conflict of interest would be to first argue that as a forum moderator Ken need not be impartial or fair-minded to begin with.

Rhetoric like wreak havoc, hideous, nasty, hateful accusation and character attack, absurd, ridiculous, etc. used in the light of what Sockpuppet actually said, while Ken grappled over banning him was just a bit over the top in my view.

As far as gloating, there was plenty of that to go around for everybody. You can talk about class all you want but until Rich stepped up, I didn’t see it. Sorry, Rick and Ken, it all looked a bit heavy handed and pointless to me, overshadowing anything Sockpuppet had to say, but you did seem to be enjoying yourselves and, with the Sock's redemption, nobody really got hurt. Nothing wrong with that I guess.

Mike

If this was one isolated incident I would have wholeheartedly agree with you, Mike. However, Sock's posting history has mostly been about finding ulterior motives in things others do, whether good or bad. People rarely find themselves disciplined due to a single act. It is usually the result of an accumulation of actions. As is the case here.

Just as people have noted how this might appear to someone who does not know us, Sock could appear innocent and blameless without knowledge of HIS history.

While continued discussion might be interesting to some, it is also serving to do what Sock complained about.. It keeps the so-called plug on the top of the forum, thereby accomplishing a form of self-promotion... I really don't think there is anything new that can be said on this topic.. Just rehashing what has already been said..

And PS, if being a moderator excludes me from doing business with whoever I choose, then we need a new moderator.