Re: hearing (listening) only:

As teachers/trained musicians, which intervals do you recognize easiest? Is there any interval that you have to be a bit more careful about in identifing it?

How about your students?

Context is everything. An interval heard in one harmonic context may present no problems; in another it may be quite tricky. Singing the interval is always crucial for me in these circumstances. If it's identifying intervals just as two isolated notes you can create your own context (eg identify a major 6th by thinking of the lower note as the tonic).

Currawong, that is EXACTLY what I was hoping to get at.

I found out:

1) I tend to try to put intervals into context, subconsciously. It is visceral. So if, for example, someone plays 3rds or 6ths, at random, totally out of context, my brain tends to throw in an extra note that is not there. Ex: if someone plays E G, I may imagine C E G, and before I catch myself, out comes the word "major". Or I may imagine E G B, and out comes "minor".

2) I have found that othere musicians report the same odd thing.

In contrast, tritone SCREAMS tritone at me. The more dissonant the interval, isolated, the easier it is for me to identify, without thinking...

I tend to get confused with the theoretical aspect of intervals below. For example, a minor sixth below (C then E below), I start to think, we're in C, so E is major ---- must be a major sixth below! But the key is taken from the E, not the C, so it is a minor sixth below. My ear is fine, I could name the two notes played no problem, I can just never remember if it's major or minor and it makes me feel soooo dumb.

My students (little guys -- aged 5-7) have lots of confusion between fourths and fifths, I suppose because they both have an "open" sound. I can usually get them to identify a fifth by singing Twinkle, twinkle but the fourth remains a mystery. None of them have heard of Here comes the bride, or Hark the herald angels, and I can't think of anything they would know that starts with a fourth. Any suggestions? I don't know what songs kids learn in school these days!

lol!!!

I practically swore the other day when I allowed one of my students to test *me* and blurted out minor 6th for a major 6th. He played G# B, I heard it in the key of E and so thought immediately of an E major chord, blurted out major 6th.

No suggestions, which is why I opened this thread. I have been shocked to find people nailing minor and major 2nds, minor and major 7ths, tritones, but mixing up 4ths and 5ths. Yet as I thought it through, again, there is still a key or tonic association, so that if we hear C F but orient to key of F, we may blurt out "4th" because of the association. I THINK that is what happens to many people.

The Wheels on the Bus. The Last Post (Taps). Oh Christmas Tree/The Red Flag. Another Opening, Another Show. Auld Lang Syne. The Cokey Cokey (almost)....

OMG thank you for sharing this, I feel a lot better now!!

Since i started studying voice, I've had to sing intervals rather than just name them, which was a struggle at first, but it sure develops the ear. I recommend forcing piano students to sing! Even though they all hate it.

Thanks for sharing these suggestions.

Excellent! I think Wheels on the bus is going to be a winner for my students . Thanks for sharing!

I think I did not make what I am doing clear at all. I am not playing the notes separately, so that the interval is ascending or descending. I do not WANT an association with a song. I want a pure association with the sound itself, which is why I play the two notes together, even for beginners. Also, I do zero voice work. I never sing myself, my students mostly hate to sing (with a few exceptions!), and I don't like using the voice as a crutch to do the work of what the ear eventually has to do in audiation. If I had to hum music in order to detect wrong notes as my students play music for me, I'd be crippled as a teacher.

For students I am starting out with:

CDb
CB

CD
CBb

CF#

In that order.

The reason is that the so-called dissonant intervals are easiest for the average person to recognize.

The CONSONANT intervals are harder, at first, since all of them are part of major chords, in some inversion.

And there is a very good reason why beginners mix up perfect 4ths and 5ths.

The idea is to get young students to get the feel of intervals, using a non-changing bass, then later move towards hearing those same intervals as they are moved up and down...

Ok, so you mean solid intervals rather than broken? Personally, I find those easier to identify because I can think in terms of harmony rather than intervals, if that makes sense.

I think you are totally right about your theory of consonant intervals being harder, because we tend to create associations when we hear them.

And of course most method books teach 2nds, 3rds, 4ths and 5ths first. I like your idea of teaching the dissonant intervals first.

How much theory would you say your students know before you start working on intervals?

Where do you go after CF#? (What is the whole sequence?)

My students have a much easier time hearing the intervals played note separately (melodic intervals) than notes together (harmonic intervals).

Every student has different abilities. Some can hear all the intervals without any help (like the kids with perfect pitch) and some are completely tone deaf and can't hear anything no matter what I do with them. I usually teach them a set of "songs" or common tunes with a certain opening or notable interval. The theme to "Star Wars" seems to work for everyone for Perfect 5th. "Jingle Bells" REALLY works for Major 6th.

The problematic ones are minor 6th and minor 7th because the songs I use to teach those are so old, none of the kids know them. Tritone is hard because not all kids watch The Simpsons.

There are many, many songs that start on a Perfect 4th because it's the common V-I opening.

Mozart's Eine Kleine Nachtmusik and "I've Been Working on the Railroad" are very good examples because they repeat the opening P4 several times in a row. "Amazing Grace" works for the church-going kids. Schumann's "Wild Rider" and "The Merry Farmer" works well for kids who have played them. Beethoven's "Moonlight Sonata."

Or you can just opening the kid's repertoire book and find 5 or 6 pieces that start on a P4. You'll be surprised how many pieces start on a P4.

I teach solid first. For me it makes no difference, but I think I am unusual in that I tend to automatically put ANYTHING into a harmonic context, if it is possible. To get out of that thinking, I have to be dealing with something like a tone row.

I totally agree, and in addition I think that the terms "major" and "minor" become problems. They do for me, for this reason: major and minor chords are part of me. I never swap the names, and I never mishear them, in any voicings, any register, any inversions. That causes my mind to do a "wtf-moment" when I hear something like C Eb Ab, clearly a MAJOR chord with two MINOR intervals (m3, m6) or C E A, clearly a MINOR chord with two MAJOR intervals (M3, M6).

This causes me to hear 100% accurately but to want to blurt out the wrong *name*!

It's really cool to start with the ugliest first, because the kids go "Yuck!!!" They actually enjoy the ugliness. But then you can take the worst, m2, M7, then play really pleasing major 7 chords in all sorts of inversions and show how the "dissonance" can be "cushioned" by the pleasing sounds all around them.

No formal theory, but I stress reading hugely, so the listening pushes the "other side" of music. I do mention 2nds, 3rds, 4ths and 5ths from the very beginning, but that is for "white keys" and involves seeing and counting distance, not hearing...

minor third

sing song chants of most all children

g e g e

with the a

g e g e ggeag e

or

g ea g e


Chimes (is the Westminster?)

1 6 4

always helped me with 6ths and 4ths

c - a - f ---

That's the NBC theme.

But that gives a complete major chord. Too many clues, plus what if the pitches come in a different order? Or together?