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#1836012 - 01/31/12 09:27 PM Dual manuals…
doremi Online   content
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#1836088 - 01/31/12 11:18 PM Re: Dual manuals… [Re: doremi]
Dr Popper Offline
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It doesn't exist but it can very easily ....two keyboards and a midi cable
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#1836196 - 02/01/12 03:12 AM Re: Dual manuals… [Re: doremi]
doremi Online   content
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#1836237 - 02/01/12 05:37 AM Re: Dual manuals… [Re: doremi]
Dr Popper Offline
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Close set 2 tier stand ...?
Or buy a C2D
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#1836241 - 02/01/12 05:45 AM Re: Dual manuals… [Re: doremi]
Dave Horne Offline
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Well, there's this ....

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#1836356 - 02/01/12 10:02 AM Re: Dual manuals… [Re: doremi]
doremi Online   content
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I am doremi because I play scales
Had I progressed to playing chords, I would be domisol

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#1836366 - 02/01/12 10:12 AM Re: Dual manuals… [Re: doremi]
toddy Offline
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Just a standard keyboard stack including, say, a p155, an Fp7f or an MP10 - wouldn't that do it?
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#1836376 - 02/01/12 10:23 AM Re: Dual manuals… [Re: toddy]
doremi Online   content
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I am doremi because I play scales
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#1836379 - 02/01/12 10:25 AM Re: Dual manuals… [Re: toddy]
anotherscott Online   content
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Originally Posted By: toddy
Just a standard keyboard stack including, say, a p155, an Fp7f or an MP10 - wouldn't that do it?

Yes, a keyboard like the P155 works well. The controls barely extend above the keys. You can rest the front of the 2nd board on the top surface of the P155, you just need a stand that can then support the second board from the back... which unfortunately is not that common, but there are some, or ones that are easily adapted to work that way, or you might even be able to use a separate stand for that back board with the front resting on the bottom board.

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#1836381 - 02/01/12 10:27 AM Re: Dual manuals… [Re: doremi]
toddy Offline
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Ahh, OK.
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Mics: SP B1 & MXL V67g/ Alesis MicTube Preamp/ Xenyx302/ Yamaha HS7s .

"Only a fool is fooled" pv88, All Fools' Day 2014.

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#1836393 - 02/01/12 10:36 AM Re: Dual manuals… [Re: doremi]
LesCharles73 Offline
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My Kurzweil has dual manuals. Each one is about 2" thick! wink



I know, I'm not much help.
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#1836396 - 02/01/12 10:38 AM Re: Dual manuals… [Re: doremi]
anotherscott Online   content
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Originally Posted By: doremi
The vertical distance between the manuals would be 6 to 7 inches with the keyboards touching each other (bottom of top keyboard touches the top of bottom keyboard)

You should be able to find boards that get them closer than that. Boards like the P155 have probably less than an inch of "extra height", and there are unweighted boards that have a "bottom" that's under 2" (I just checked a Korg M50 and a Nord Stage 2). So it may be a matter of finding the right boards.

Originally Posted By: doremi
You can easily reach across manuals with one hand, i.e. one finger on one manual, the other finger on the other manual.

I've done that using the kind of setup we're talking about, i.e. to play the same note on both keyboards at the same time, with one hand.

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#1836397 - 02/01/12 10:38 AM Re: Dual manuals… [Re: anotherscott]
doremi Online   content
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I am doremi because I play scales
Had I progressed to playing chords, I would be domisol

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#1836423 - 02/01/12 11:04 AM Re: Dual manuals… [Re: doremi]
Epeios Offline
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Registered: 03/28/11
Posts: 28
Loc: France
What do you exactly mean by 'hammer action' ? Velocity-sensitive, weighted and/or 'graded' action ? Because some organs like the C2D, perhaps the C2D itself, have velocity-sensitive (but not weighted and not 'graded') keyboards, so it is possible to play with dynamics.
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#1836491 - 02/01/12 12:39 PM Re: Dual manuals… [Re: doremi]
doremi Online   content
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Registered: 04/06/07
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_________________________
I am doremi because I play scales
Had I progressed to playing chords, I would be domisol

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#1836671 - 02/01/12 05:22 PM Re: Dual manuals… [Re: doremi]
Dr Popper Offline
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Loc: Hancock Park LA (not again)
I dunno I don't have either board but I'm sure you could get it close, not as close as you like but close enough.
What you want doesn't exist so you just have to deal with it and adapt your playing to suit.
If I can play a Synth line on a top board while playing pads on a board 2 tiers down or even across from me on another stand 90 degrees away then you can too.
_________________________
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Disclosure : I am professionally supported by but not beholden to various musical instrument manufactures including Yamaha

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#1836729 - 02/01/12 07:07 PM Re: Dual manuals… [Re: Dr Popper]
doremi Online   content
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Registered: 04/06/07
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_________________________
I am doremi because I play scales
Had I progressed to playing chords, I would be domisol

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#1836804 - 02/01/12 09:30 PM Re: Dual manuals… [Re: doremi]
ando Offline
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@LesCharles73, it made me laugh! grin

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#1836819 - 02/01/12 09:56 PM Re: Dual manuals… [Re: doremi]
anotherscott Online   content
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Originally Posted By: doremi
anotherscott, Dr P, or somebody else with lots of keyboards, if you stack the M50 on the P155 so that you can still access the narrow control strip of the P155 just behind the keys, what is the horizontal distance between the fronts of top and bottom manuals?

What you really are asking, I think, is the depth of the P155's control panel space, measured from the back of the keys. I don't have a P155, but I'm sure someone here can measure that for you. Though also, you may not even need to leave the entire P155 control space unobstructed. All the buttons are in the bottom half of the panel. Depending on what you're doing with it and how well you know your way around those particular options, you may not need to read all the legends above them. For that matter, if you're using it just to control, for example, a piano sound in a computer, you might not need access to the controls at all.

The front lip of the the M50 adds no space at all. The front of the keys actually hang in front of the enclosure.

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#1836926 - 02/02/12 02:08 AM Re: Dual manuals… [Re: doremi]
doremi Online   content
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Registered: 04/06/07
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_________________________
I am doremi because I play scales
Had I progressed to playing chords, I would be domisol

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#1837139 - 02/02/12 11:15 AM Re: Dual manuals… [Re: doremi]
anotherscott Online   content
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Originally Posted By: doremi
In a dual organ manual, the distance from the front of a natural to the front of the natural above is 4.25 inches. This cannot likely be achieved by stacking keyboards, I just want to know how large the deviation is.

On a Hammond B3, the distance between the front of the upper and lower naturals is about 6 inches straight back, or 6.5" measured keytip to keytip (i.e. diagonally up from the bottom manual to the top).

One more issue you're going to deal with here, besides how far forward you can manage to bring that top board, is the fact that weighted action keys are longer than unweighted action keys, usually about 6" as opposed to about 5.5", so you'll lose a half inch just by wanting a weighted action.

I would guess (and someone here can probably verify) that the P155 keys are about 6". You'd still need to know how much to add to that depth to keep the control panel clear, but as I mentioned, I don't think you even need to keep the entire control panel area clear, if your goal is to get the boards as close as possible.

This image might help:

http://www.dolphinmusic.co.uk/shop_image/product/40718-yamaha-p155-black-mahogany-large.jpg

The issue will be how you keep the M50 stable up there, what you do for rear support. Rather than a stand, I wonder if you could even somehow attach something to the back/underside of the P155 itself. Either way, I might even add a bit of velcro to attach the M50 more firmly to the P155.

A Korg SP170 might be better bottom board for 2nd-tier proximity (sound and action aside), because it has no control panel at all. It also weighs a lot less (and is half the price). I'm not sure whether or not its back surface is as flat.

http://www.korg.com/uploads/Images/SP170_6_634546131607670000.png

Another possibilities might be Yamaha P95

http://www.gearnuts.com/images/items/1800/P95-xlarge.jpg

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#1837292 - 02/02/12 02:57 PM Re: Dual manuals… [Re: doremi]
doremi Online   content
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/06/07
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_________________________
I am doremi because I play scales
Had I progressed to playing chords, I would be domisol

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#1837357 - 02/02/12 04:46 PM Re: Dual manuals… [Re: doremi]
anotherscott Online   content
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Registered: 02/20/10
Posts: 3076
I don't think stacking actions in a custom enclosure and moving their electronics around would necessarily let you get the keyboards any closer to each other than doing what I described, though it would give you a wider range of keyboards to choose from.

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#1921237 - 06/30/12 08:57 PM Re: Dual manuals… [Re: anotherscott]
doremi Online   content
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Registered: 04/06/07
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I am doremi because I play scales
Had I progressed to playing chords, I would be domisol

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#1921346 - 07/01/12 06:51 AM Re: Dual manuals… [Re: doremi]
Vectistim Offline
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Registered: 06/17/10
Posts: 312
Loc: Reading, UK
You could do something like this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W8mY7UxKpis

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#1921356 - 07/01/12 08:01 AM Re: Dual manuals… [Re: doremi]
Exalted Wombat Offline
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Registered: 02/28/09
Posts: 1183
Loc: London UK
Originally Posted By: doremi
…like on organs, but one of the manuals has a hammer action.

Does it exist?

If not, how can it be put together?

What approaches have people tried to put it together?


Commercial players have been stacking keyboards for years. Or putting a synth on top of a grand piano. It's no big deal. Two- (or more) tier stands are easily available. The keyboards won't be quite as close together as on an organ, but really, it's perfectly manageable. Choosing a slightly higher seat height, or slightly angling the upper keyboard can help.

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#1921442 - 07/01/12 01:32 PM Re: Dual manuals… [Re: Exalted Wombat]
doremi Online   content
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Registered: 04/06/07
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_________________________
I am doremi because I play scales
Had I progressed to playing chords, I would be domisol

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#1921475 - 07/01/12 02:54 PM Re: Dual manuals… [Re: doremi]
Exalted Wombat Offline
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Loc: London UK
Originally Posted By: doremi
Stacking keyboards has horrible ergonomics compared to stacking actions as in organs, just that there are no organs on the market with a bottom hammer action manual.

That's exactly the reason for having this thread in the first place, see the previous postings in this thread.

In the Fatar configuration, one could conceivably build a double (or multiple) manual that satisfies the AGO (American Guild of Organists) specifications AND have a bottom hammer action manual.


Have you actually tried? I've done plenty of long gigs with a weighted electric piano on the bottom, a couple of synths stacked above. Sometimes a pedalboard underneath. It's not THAT bad. Particularly if you have the weighted keyboard at the "right" height.

Look at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WV-gddts3I0&feature=related
Whether it's your kind of music or not, you can't say that the keyboard setup restricts his dexterity. And he's even standing up!

There's too much fussing and not enough coping and just getting on with the job around here sometimes!

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#1921484 - 07/01/12 03:16 PM Re: Dual manuals… [Re: doremi]
doremi Online   content
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/06/07
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_________________________
I am doremi because I play scales
Had I progressed to playing chords, I would be domisol

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#1921490 - 07/01/12 03:39 PM Re: Dual manuals… [Re: doremi]
Vectistim Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/17/10
Posts: 312
Loc: Reading, UK
Try on the hauptwerk forums - some people on there have stripped the cases from midi keyboards to get them closer together.

Anyway, here is another digital piano plus midi keyboard, this time four manuals - a three manual organ, plus a digital piano
www.youtube.com/watch?v=tQX_ow_5OzM

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