With all due respect to your opinion and experiences, I don't think much of this would be representative of what the vast majority of qualified and experienced techs would agree with today.

Question... Why aren't hammers designed like tire-irons ie: the socket in the middle of the lever so that there is NO possibility of the pin bending so much as to damage the pinblock?????

I used a $100 rosewood extension lever for quite a few years. (although I never used the extension!) Then I had a titanium lever made by Mike Calahan, and than sold it and bought one from Charles Faulk. Then I bought a Levitan - it is by far the best lever so far. The extension levers heavier and more flexible. Why bother with them when something better is available?

I tried a Fujan that a client bought, and did not care for it. I have extension levers I bought 30-odd years ago. I have probably extended them twice since then for clearance, but mostly they are good because if the thread on them wears out, I can get another bar, rather than replacing the entire lever.

They have hard rubber or nylon handles, I forget which, because at the time, I had a wooden handled screwdriver that got all rough and was painful to use. I have no regrets about those handles, which were, and still are, cheaper.

I am not certain what the appeal of a light lever would be. The weight of the lever is negligible compared to the weight of all the other stuff I need to carry around in case something else is or goes wrong, and if I am not strong enough to lift the lever from one pin to another, I should be in another line of work.

Mostly, I just think you get used to what you get used to. If you never get used to your tools, again, it is because you belong in another line of work.

Because you need to use a lever with one hand (one hand is playing the keys). With a tire-iron style lever, the benefit of no pin twisting would require two hands, or one hand directly over the pin. In this case, it would have little mechanical advantage over a nut driver.

Some ideas try to come close to this. The Reyburn grand impact hammer does have the tuning tip in the middle of the hammer, and you can turn tight pins with one hand because of the impact action. Also, the Levitan professional tuning lever, (the one that looks like a big "C", not the "L" shaped one), supposedly puts no bending on the pin. I've tried both briefly, and they were very foreign feeling, but also very interesting ideas.

Regards,

And with all due respect back to you, I don't think the vast majority of piano tuners publicly express what their preferences are. I sincerely believe that there is an "Emperor's New Clothes" thing going on with many subjects of discussion on this Forum. That just is how people are.

But we can get away from this being a popularity sort of thing where with, as an example, temperaments we cannot. Can anyone get access to a deflect-o-meter or what ever it might be called and measure the deflection of a couple of different hammers at, say, 100 inch pounds including the spring of the tuning pin??? Then there would be something objective to talk about.

I find the flagpoling of the pins to be a controllable way to counteract both the residual torque of the pin and an aid in rendering the string. Just determine a optimal position for the hammer and perhaps modify the flagpoling with deliberate flapoling.

My first and current tuning hammer is a gooseneck hammer and its a piece of garbage. The first time I used a quality hammer was November Last year when we had to reglue the loose bass bridge on my 1908 Ebersole Player Piano, It was a schaff nylon extension hammer. It fit snug on the pin and made tuning a breeze. Im glad I only used that goose neck on my current projcect to remove the old tuning pins. I dont know how many times it had slipped on the pin and nearly rounded some off. Im about to put new strings on that piano and I wont even consider trying to tune the piano with that hammer, I dont want to dammage the new nickle plated tuning pins. I would tune the piano with a tuning pin crank before I used that gooseneck again. I suggest getting a good hammer to start it will make things alot easier. Im currently looking for a quality replacement to fit in the budget.

Sounds like a the gooseneck has a bad tip. Don't judge the gooseneck by its price tag.

The hammer still works you just have to be careful. But I suppose you get what you pay for. I'm Looking forward to a new tuning hammer.

I used an extention type Watanabe tuning hammer for 25 years and really got used to its heavy weight. Was reluctant to go looking for anything else since it worked quite well. I bought a Fujan about 3 years ago and haven't touched the old tuning hammer since, it rides in the trunk as a back up. The stiffness is only a minor improvement over a heavy duty wood handle and hardly noticable. Tiny nudges and bumps on the handle do transmit more directly to the pin than the old heavy lever I used. The Fujans lightness is what really impressed me. It swings off and on to pins so much easier, quicker and more co-ordinated now and helps keep an already heavy tool box lighter.

There is an old saying with foot wear that for hiking, every pound your boots weigh heavier translates in fatigue the same as if you had 5-7 lbs on your back. Knocking a lb of weight off a tuning lever seems to have the same effect at reducing fatigue..

A side question:
I've seen Watanabe and Hale #2 tips sold side by side on certain websites. Is there a big difference in build quality, grip on the pins, durability, or all of the above?

Would it be advantageous to trade out my current Hale tip for a Watanabe?

Thanks,
-Erich

Mr. Fujan has such a device, where a specific amount of torque is applied, and the deflection of the tuning lever is measured using a dial indicator. However, the flex of a pin is not included in this test.

I am interested in this thread because I am interested in restoring a piano as a hobby, and I am on a budget. Before reading this thread, I had narrowed my affordable options to two:
Buy from AMS piano tools. They seem to be made in the USA, and they will work with Apsco tips that I already own. What are the feelings on this company?
Or there are a variety of used nylon handle extension levers for sale on ebay. They appear to be Hale/Schaff, but it is hard to tell from the picture. So far, I have not found a nylon handle extension lever made by a non-reputable company. What do you think of this route?
Thanks for advice

My 36 year-old Hale nylon extension handle serves me well.

I don't do rebuilding but I have a ratchet tip that works with a standard socket wrench. I use it for replacing strings and it would be handy for restringing a whole piano. It would not, however, work for tuning other than a very rough tuning.

I use two hammers regularly.

A Rosewood Extension from APSCO for 30+ years. I think they were HALE products originally.

A Charles Faulk in Bocote-wood with a figured handle.

I decided a few years ago to start using that extension more in my daily service. My reasoning was that the tuning levers are only short so they can fit in the toolbox! For good control and ease of moving pins torquing at high levels it just makes sense to crank a few more inches into the lever. Why not?

I collect tuning tips...always searching for a tight fit as close to the becket as possible without touching the music wire. #3 most often is good, #2 for most of the rest. And I'll roll through the collection, when I come to a new piano. It just makes sense to have the greatest control and tightness possible with each piano.

Wood handles feel better. Nylon handles slip in my fingers, no matter how spendy they may be. I just need that wood at my fingertips! Avoid cheap. Get an extendable, at least as a back-up, you'll wish you had it someday. And go to a PTG convention, or regional seminar and walk the Exhibit Hall with a tuning pin in your pocket...and try a few tips!

Yr. mileage may vary,
Respectfully,