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I think at this tempo you've got to really feel the triplet all the time. Try singing the triplet while you play... like the doo-duh-luh thing we talked about awhile ago. And really lock into the feel of the "luh".

Come to think of it, I've come more to like singing something like doo-n-duh. I like the harder sound of the "duh" on the upbeat. It's easier to feel it's presence that way. And the "n" in the middle is softer and glides by without much presence other than a subtle feeling.

Thanks Scott. Kinda frustrating because I felt like I went backward. In this live Solar excerpt (though it's Latin) -- I thought my groove was fine. This is a tempo I'm comfortable with.

Solar Excerpt
http://www.box.com/s/9iqm2luach71e13dtrkp

I just need to practice more swing in this tempo because you're right, this is the triplet feel tempo but maybe with more drag too. I think maybe I couldn't settle into what I wanted to do groove wise and I was shifting back and forth, particularly because I wasn't playing a stream of eighths.

I should know how to do that. And that's what I would normally think of too. I agree.

On the positive side it is noticeably better than how you sounded a short time ago. Not swinging hard enough is something we all have to deal with (except maybe for Wynton Kelly)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CzZCoryiQxQ&feature=related

Well, I know for me, having grown up exposed to "straight" music like rock and classical, I find it easier to play latin and other straight styles too. Swing just hasn't come natural to me.

Beeboss, If I Were A Bell and Estate sound really nice. The drum track on Estate is interesting. There's all kinds of little funny sounds in there... cool.

How do you stop the drums at the end? Are you editing after the fact?

Thanks Scott.
The drums on estate are just a couple of loops so they go on for ever unless I put a stop to them. It only took a few minutes to do them drum part so it is not exactly advanced, but i guess it does its job more or less.

I've been recording solo tracks and overdubbing a second track recently. I'm finding it very revealing as far as my time is concerned. I'm still not getting it as solid as I'd like it to be... in a few places the walking bass feels like it rushes and drags. Plus the comping is a little out of sync every now and then. But overall I think I'm getting better. I've decided that I still need alot more practice walking bass lines and comping with the metronome on the "and". When I play with the metronome on the beat, I can keep the quarter notes steady, but the swing in the comping gets off. So I think I'm still just not feeling the "and" solidly enough. That's why I'm trying to get to where I can play a solid bass line with comping while the metronome plays the "and". Here's a track I just did (the parts are panned slightly to distinguish them):

http://www.box.com/s/ja7a3t6pzqio6q8bebzv

Any thoughts or suggestions?

Scott,

I thought that was very nice. You're pretty much in the pocket the whole time. I like how you do what I call the "Bill run" at about 2:20, and how you trade with yourself on the last chorus. That's really well done.
Very nice solo, and very nice groove.

When I started studying jazz a few years ago I thought the hard part would be learning the complex harmonies and putting together a good solo. Turns out the hardest thing of all is to swing, to really really Wynton Kelly swing.

Knotty, thanks for the vote of confidence. I'll keep at it.





Agreed!

It is hard to really swing. When I hear Wynton it makes me realise how far there is left to go.

That sounds really good Scott. The only thing that I can suggest it that your approach makes the comping a little weird. Sometimes the comping between the 2 takes gets muddled and generally I think the comping you do with the bass line is too loud, it detracts from the solo line a little. You have soem great lines going.
I really love the way you mix it up between the takes with one soloing and then the other taking over.
Are you recording the first track with a metronome and then turning it off for the 2nd take?

Thanks beeboss. Good observations. I agree that the comping gets messy at times but I didn't really notice that it was all that loud, so thanks for pointing that out. I'd like to be able to make it work though. Have you heard Bill Evans' record "Conversations With Myself". It's really amazing how he's able to keep everything together on there, with so much going on... 3 tracks for each tune!

I didn't use a metronome at all for my recording. I'm pretty pleased that I'm keeping it together as well as I am considering. Used to be there was no way I could do that at all without a metronome, so I'm making progress!

Wow! "Conversation between Scotts". That was great and swinging. And really nice lines. Impressive, man. It was fun listening to it in stereo.

So...your dilemma is you feel what you play is not you? Are those three excerpts not you, or are they you? I'm confused as to what you are actually asking. You obviously have chops, and have learned your scales and chords very well, right? Are you asking if what you've posted is musical, or are you stating that those tracks are not what really represents how you'd want to express yourself musically?
You responded to jazzwee earlier on stating that it's sometimes best to keep it really simple. My take on your playing is that you're not focussing on the simplicity, but rather the complexity of the lines. I'm actually not convinced that you're even developing the lines as you're playing one after the other, but maybe moreso knowing what you 'can' play you'll play it--but what you may want to play is still left somewhere else, and then the musicality is left out.
Now this isn't to say that what you're doing is wrong or bad, but maybe what is missing is the narrative part of the playing--telling a story. What I sense in what you posted is a large bunch of characters, but little development of them. Instead of getting deeper into each motif or idea, you abandon it and start to develop another one. Maybe this is what you feel you're missing?

In any case, you've definitely got some great ideas, and you have good technique. I guess now you may think about the stripping away process to do, and then the redevelopment phase. So hard to do in realtime, I know.

...hey are you grunting like Keith Jarrett there? Is that a separate track?

As always Scott, I really like your playing. You've got a real sense for arranging, and your melodies are really, really musical. You know, it would be cool if you remixed it with the comping turned down by about 50% (as beeboss said).
Great rhythmic feel, and you kept the tempo consistent all the way through. I still have trouble with speeding up when I play at certain tempo ranges, so I really appreciate that you did this without a metronome.
One suggestion though, monster hands, why aren't you walking in 10ths in the bass? If you've got it, flaunt it, right? I met Jessica Williams years ago, and I mentioned to her that she has such a great open sound to her chords and she compared her hand to mine--a span of a 12th compared to my 9th/10th. grrr.

I was practicing tonight at 170bpm instead of 125bpm and I realized that I play so differently at these tempos. I lose my groove the closer I get to 120bpm. My style of playing seems to fit better at the mid-upper tempos.

This is going to be a challenge since this slow swing zone requires some evenness in the swing that I can't maintain.

I did a trial run again on the slow swing and although it was much better, there was still something missing. Lots of work to do. Sigh...

When you guys are doing something melodic for long stretches, are you in full concentration of the melodies the whole time? Or do you take a breath and let some filler stuff sneak on so you can get back your bearings?

I was noticing that I can concentrate on melodies for a period then I lose it, and it may take awhile to get the ideas flowing again. It's a very draining experience.

Isn't it like being part of a great conversation? Shouldn't you always be aware of where you're at, what's been said, and how to continue the ideas? The bad conversationalists are the ones that might go 'uh huh...I see what you mean....yes, you have a point there...' all the while just waiting to talk. Even worse are people that quote stats or misuse quotes from famous people. Those are bs fillers, and I think the same happens in players when they get lazy.
Sure it's hard to stay on things, but really the rewards are much greater compared to passing the time (in a solo, whatnot) but only just pretending to contribute something meaningful.

This isn't to say that what you are saying will always be original. You can't avoid the vocabulary within the genre that you're playing, nor can you always make up new ways of saying things, but you can make sure that all the ideas flow, and that they build upon each other.

So yes, I try to be in full concentration. It's not easy, especially when I try to play something that is slightly out of reach of my ears or abilities and I'm left hanging...