I would like some tips, suggestions, know-hows whatever you guys have on how to LEARN to use the metronome. I tried searching for something similar and came up with zip.

As some of you know I think the thing is evil. I can't help feeling like it might be because of the way I'm going about it. I turn it on and try to play whatever song I'm working on in time with it. Which of couse only lasts seconds and then drives me crazy. It's making practice more nightmarish than anything.

There has got to be a better, less frustrating way to learn how to use it. Thanks for your help.

Ms. I'm Rhythmically Challenged.

When I initially started learning piano, one of the things I would do with the metronome was take the scale my instructor had assigned me for that week, pick a really slow tempo, and then, once I had played it perfectly, increase the metronome one notch, and I would do this until I basically hit a wall. I would also decrease the metronome one notch when I made a mistake. I would also occasionally apply this to pieces. I don't really do this anymore, but when I do I now use larger intervals. e.g. I will increase it 5 or ten notches up or down instead of just one. A good tip when using this method is, when you sit down to practice the same thing the next day, don't start at the fastest tempo you achieved on the previous day. Decrease it by about 10 notches.

Another thing I do is I will take a piece (or passage) and play it at a ridiculously slow tempo, lets say 40bpm, and play this tempo until I don't have any mistakes or hesitations. Then I will try the piece at my goal tempo, lets say my goal is 130bpm. Attempting the goal tempo early on usually ends in complete failure. So I will go back to the slow tempo, but 5 or 10 notches faster, and play it until it is perfect. Then I will try the goal tempo once more. I will repeat this process gradually getting closer and closer to the goal tempo. This is a great way to really speed up a piece or passage.

Also, sometimes I actually need to practice a piece or passage slower than the metronome will actually go. For instance the piece is marked quarter notes at 120bpm and I can't even play it with quarter notes at 40 bpm (which is the slowest my metronome goes). So what I do in these cases is I actually subdivide by imagining that the "clicks" are, for example, eighth notes. Then I will, using the methods I previously described, work my way up to faster tempos.

I am trying to think of other things I do with the metronome, but I can't. I will add more as I remember them. Hope this helps.

If you have a DP becca, they often have drum sounds. Say you are in 4/4 time you can set the bass drum to beat one, a tom to beat two, a snare to beat three and a cymbal to beat four.

This way you can hear a difference beween the beats one two three four. Instead of one,click click click.
Or click click click ding.

because the clicks sound the same its often difficult to remember which one is which... and you get lost.

with the drum beats approach you can hear the diference.

Hope this helps.

With respect, I'd suggest the nightmare aspect may just be the pure difficulty of playing with a steady beat if you've never done it before.

Think of all the hours you've spent playing without a steady beat. If you're like most of us when you start out you hesitate constantly, waiting until your hand gets to the note it needs to play. So the notes where your hand doesn't move come quickly together and the ones that are trickier are farther apart. That habit is thoroughly imbedded in what you mind and hands think "playing the piano" is.

The only alternative when you're ready to start playing steadily is to slow down to the speed you've been playing the trickiest note-to-note changes. And the "nightmare" comes in because that is sooooooooo slooooooooow, more slow than you'd ever believe.

There are a lot of notes you can play one after another 10x faster than those slowest so notes so you naturally try to split the difference. You set the metronome to 1/2 or 1/3 the speed you normally "play". Except now on the notes you're used to hesitating the metronome goes ahead and click miles before your hands can get to those notes. So the parts you used to play fast feel awful because now they're only half as fast and the notes you used to hesitate and play slow get interrupted midstream by that darned click coming before you're ready.

And the final insult is, for a lot of tunes you thought you could sorta play at a reasonable tempo the "as slow as the slowest notes" speed for the metronome is actually fewer beats per minute than the darned thing will count. How embarrassing.

We've all dealt with that nightmare at some point or another. Better to do it early than late. So you've got to start by playing real easy stuff and doing it real slow with the metronome. No way to get used to it but to do it.

It's frustrating because it's demonstrating your poor timing!

Set it to a very moderate speed. 80 perhaps. Play a scale, one note to each click. Then two notes to each click. Slould be trivially easy - yes? But somehow, it isn't! You keep running away!

Practice until you CAN control your playing. When it's OK with a simple scale, take a piece. Set a VERY easy speed - this is about control, not about learning to play fast (although that will follow!). If you stumble, work out why.

It's GOOD that you find it frustrating. This is because it shows up problems with your playing. It will help you correct them.

This is awesome advice. OP, thanks for asking the question! I hope it helps you as much as I think it will help me.

Becca,

Check out the video of bassist Victor Wooten that was posted by our good friend Jazzwee in THIS THREAD.

It's probably a little more advanced than what you're looking for right now, but it's awesome and gives you a very good idea of the sorts of useful things you can do with a metronome.

All of the above Excellent advice here, from my experience.

Cathy

Thank you everyone. I realize I have no timing. I wouldn't have bought the metronome if it was excellent! LOL

I will try all the suggestions and see how it goes. I think I'll give the scale work a shot first, as learning songs with it right now seems to be a bit above me.

Legal Beagle, definately above my head but good for later on.

Thank you thank you!

Becca,

Good idea to start with the scales. That will help get you used to the distraction, as well as help you internalize the beat.

For your songs/pieces, you might want to start with just a small segment, maybe only one measure, and probably not more than two or three measures. Find a phase of suitable length if you can and just work on that with the metronome..... very slow speed until you can really feel those clicks. If necessary use the metronome for some hands separate work first. Don't forget to add one extra note or beat at the end of your phrase so that when you later go to stitch these things together there will be no pauses.

The important message in that video is that you're trying to lock into a groove, to FEEL the tempo. Yes, keep it simple. You can also try setting the metronome and walking to that tempo, or tap your fingers to the time. Change it often, even if it's just a small change. You should be able to feel the difference in tempo with just a 5 or 10 difference (80 vs. 90).

Once you get more comfortable with tempo overall, the goal of a metronome is to show you the parts of a song you can't keep up with. It's like it's telling you "here, practice this part".

Thanks all. It's good to know what the point of it is. I didn't actually know that!

I tried PPP's suggestion and used it at 40 with the C Scale. It actually took a bit of work to manage it! I used right hand first then left hand, then I managed to pass if from one hand to the other! Which made me very happy. Tomorrow I will try to add in HT. I'm sore now so time for a break.

What a tricky skill to learn! LOL

I can not thank you all enough for the helpful advice. I have a game plan and know what to do to build up this skill. That dropped my frustration down to zero.

Don't forget, the (vital) skill you are learning is not "playing with the metronome" but "playing in time" :-)

I know. I'm flabbergasted how horrid my playing in time really is. LOL

I'm glad I've only been playing for 2 months at this point. I can't imgaine the amount of frustration I would feel at a year or two and just learning this!

Only two months! Don't obsess, then. Maybe your teacher's still concentrating more on basic hand positioning and note-recognition. You can over-analyse :-)

My teacher jumped me to level 1 material first lesson. This weeks homework is 4 pieces with the metronome. So I'm pushing for a good reason. My timing is basically the big focus along with making sure I don't miss the dynamics on each score.

In time you'll get used to it.

Good luck with your lessons!

BeccaBb,
I am also a rhythmically challenged person and the key for me was FINGERING. I didn't realize that my fingering changed a lot over the same passage -- so what I could play slowly with the metronome, I couldn't when I tried to speed it up. I was trying to do too many things at once and my fingers were fumbling everywhere when it got faster. So when you're doing the C scale HT, make sure that you've got the thumbs under and fingers over really, really down. Since they don't happen at the same time, I'd mess up when I tried for speed.

Rhythm to me is internal. Until you have a sense of the rhythm in you, it is difficult to follow the metronome, which is external, especially when you are busy with fingers and notes.

Try this. Set a suitable tempo at the metronome for your piece and feel the beat. Clap it, hum it, swing your head or body, whatever until you feel it. Then without the metronome, hum or sing the piece you play with that rhythm inside you. once you get it, play the piece with that rhythm. Once that is ok, then play with the metronome.

Let me know how you go if you decide to do this silly thing :-)

Yup. The metronome shows you very clearly where you're fumbling for the next note instead og having your hand in the right position and just playing it naturally!

Remember the Irishman who, asked for directions, replied "Well, I wouldn't really be starting from here, sorr!" If you consistently fumble for a note it's likely because your hand wasn't set up on the previous notes in a way that made the next one possible!

"can you tell me how to get to llanfihangel ar arth please?"

"yes, you go down that road, for about a mile, and take the second left. After about thee hundred yards, you see another left, its on a hairpin, be carefull. after about three miles you take a left"

"will that get me to llanfihangel ar arth?"

"NO, it will bring you right back here, but you might meet someone on the way who knows"

I'm also trying to learn how to use the metronome and this thread has a lot of great advice - thank you!

I do have a related question, if that's ok. For example, I thought I'd try to work through Hanon's Virtuoso Pianist. It says to start at quarter note = 60 and the first exercise is all 16th notes. Does that mean I'm supposed to play 4 notes per beat at 60 bpm?

I can barely manage to play 2 notes per beat, does anyone have any tips on how to work up to 4 notes per beat?

Thanks!!

Do you play any other instruments besides piano?
Yes...
I play the metronome real good.

See also this
http://www.pianoworld.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/1660514/

I've been using the metronome that's built into my keyboard. I don't have any problems when it's set to beats per minute but the ding - bop-bop when it's set to the beats per measure is just too distracting. My left hand seems to be able to keep the beats per measure and the right hand follows the metronome. Is this the way it's supposed to be? I'm self teaching and don't have anyone to ask - I'm towards the end of Alfred's Level One.
I'm right handed but do some things with my left. Does that have anything to do with it?

Is that a weird question?

Lyn

Since I've started this thread I've spoken to my teacher. He likes the scale usuage to learn with it and introduced scale G this week!

Becrux: I don't really know but from what I've read and am trying myself you would start out at a very slow beat (40) and introduce 16th notes at that speed. Then once you can follow that go to the next setting etc...

Lynn I hope someone can answer you. I can't use the one in my digital at all. It's just too distracting. I like the manual one (the wind-up pendulum.)

Yes, you have got it correct, you are, according to what's on the page, supposed to start with quarter notes at 60bpm. But I think you should perhaps take this with a grain of salt, as it were, because in the Intro to the exercises Hanon suggests that the exercises could be begun after only a year's study at the piano. Thus there is an obvious discrepancy between the starting tempo marking and what is realistic for a beginner. I think Hanon wrote what he wrote because the book is meant to be for people of "all levels" and thus he was obliged to pick a starting tempo that doesn't seem too slow or too fast.

In any case, you don't need to start it that fast. The simple solution is to just imagine that all those 16th notes written on the page are 8th notes.

Then once you get the exercise up to 120bpm, you can knock your metronome back down to 60 and start seeing the 16th notes as 16th notes

BeccaBb,

I suggest you start at whatever tempo allows you to play it without any tension at all. The first few exercises are all about strengthening the weak 4 and 5 fingers, and you can get that benefit at any chosen tempo. Don't work faster than the level you can do it with complete ease. Speed will come in time, there's no rush. All IMO.

It should be mentioned that unless you use a super slow metronome setting, learning the notes and using the metronome are kind of mutually exclusive. If you are unsure of your note accuracy, you will end up with lots of hesitations and lose the beat. One piano master whose name escapes me once said when learning the notes "hesitate rather than err".

Of course this is in the early learning phase. When the time comes to perform or accompany, the opposite is true. Don't worry about mistakes, just keep the rhythm going!

I like that. I say "It's more important to be right than to be fast. Speed is an afterthought"


Yes, that's the idea, get up to playing 4 notes with every click. If the issue is playing 4 even notes, you can double the metronome's time (from say 60 to 120) and play 2 notes per click. Some digital metronomes have this function by choosing eighth notes as the rhythm. You can also play one note per click, slower if you need to. For a month or so, I did Hanon exercises like this, very slow (at the request of a coach), and it greatly increased my technique. So don't feel like if you have to go slow, you're not getting any benefit out of it. Like I said earlier, speed will come the more familiar you get with the exercises. You can't force it.

I can't use metronomes at all. My friend once said to pretend like its a drummer keeping time but that didn't really help -lol

Are you sure your rhythmically challenged? I used to think the same thing but then my current teacher said my timing is fine its just because I am "figuring things out" - that I am slow in some places the speed up in others (slow in the more difficult places then speed up in the places I'm comfortable with). No one else ever pointed that out before so I just assumed my timing was bad.

Also, do you spend time with the song, clapping/counting the rhythm before you play it? That can be really helpful.

Well yes, no-one expects you to play fluently at the "figgering-out" stage! But how long do you STAY at that stage? Once "figgered", the aim is to achieve a performance all at the same speed, surely? If you then can't keep with a metronome, go back and "figger it out" better!

There are no rules and even "best practices" guidelines depend on context. As an aside, I find MANY "suggested" Metronome markings in books to be very ambitious and the others are right. I routinely take them on as challenges and my teacher routinely tells me to ignore them. Control and relaxation are the key to finding speed. Concentrate on the first two and the other will follow.

In general, keep the metronome at a comfortable speed. We like tempos around our normal range of heartbeats 60 to about 110. Anything slower and you tend to chase it instead of lock in with it. Much faster and feels to frantic. In the case of Hanon, Either skip the Metro until you get the exercise into your fingers a bit OR set the Metronome to 80-100 and let the clicks be the eighth notes. Re-read the first paragraph now.

Kurt

I think this needs thinking through a little more critically! Sure, if you're constructing a therapeutic relaxation track, go with the heartbeat. But much music is intended to demand attention, to invigorate. Faster tempi are very common. It's not all about making things "easy" :-)

I think you conflated several points. I blame my poor writing skills.

1. Metronome markings in many books are unrealistically high. My teachers admit this. Only the already virtuosic could reach them. The already virtuosic don't work out of level 3 etude books.


#2 People, especially beginners have a hard time following really slow clicks (below 50). You can't do it until you already have your internal clocks established and reliable. My years of observation as a drummer at which I studied assiduously for 20 years, and what I find to be common practice in my amateurish studies of cello and woodwinds is that as tempos and "note density" rise, the tendency is to start counting, conducting, feeling and setting metronomes at slower subdivisions. I'm trying to tell a beginner that it's okay to separate the velocity of the click from the stated time signature. It's okay and sometimes even a good idea to or count a fast 3/4 as measures of 6/8 or 12/8. This is independent of:

#3 You can't play RELIABLY fast until you are playing with control. You can't play with control at 150 until you can play with control at 130 or 140. Corrorarily, you get control at 150 by trying to play at 160. I never meant to imply that Flight of the Bumble Bee was just as good at 90 bpm as it is at whatever it's supposed to be. A beginner should relax and get used to playing with the metronome before attempting to go fast.

The stuff about heartrate is just musing based on my observations and the fact that a lot of people, armies and dancers seem to like tempos at divisions of sixty and that the range of normal heartbeats is from a little below sixty to just about 180 in fit athletes.


I tried to name one of my bands "Wombat Sucide". I was outvoted. I was also outvoted on "Anthrax". They said nobody would ever buy records from a band that was named after a cattle disease. As you may know, history proved them wrong.

Kurt

I don't have a ton of experience behind me or anything, but I had a lot of trouble following a metronome while practicing scales. I noticed that the trouble came from trying to listen to the metronome and the piano at the same time - I don't know what it is, but there's something about the two sounds that conflict with each other for me. I then started watching the beat count (my metronome is based on a tablet), which I was able to follow with no problem.

So maybe you could try using a metronome that gives you a visual cue? (Some have flashing lights, or others show the beat count, etc...) Also, do others have an opinion on using a metronome in this way?

Only that, if you have control of your playing, it should be easy to keep with the beat however it is presented. And I am lost in admiration for the ingenious reasons people are coming up with for not having to try!

Some day you may want to:
Play piano duets with someone
Accompany a soloist
Play in a chamber ensemble
If your rhythms are incorrect and tempos uneven, THEY will not want to play with you.
David Finckel (cellist with the Emerson quartet) has 100 tutorials on youtube. Look for No.26 'Practicing with a metronome'. Great advice from a wonderful musician.

Ladies and gents: please remember the POINT of this thread is to share tips to learn how to use the metronome! Or ask about different methods while learning!

Coolkid70: I had the exact opposite problem. For some reason using a digital at all just completely mucked me up. I bought a wind up one with the pendulum and I can both watch and listen to it just fine. I just have to work with it really really slow right now (I'm just up to 50 on scales now.) I also have started to clap, tap my feet, and sway in time with it to try to feel the beat. I'm getting there, it's just really slow.....

Actually, you brought up a really good point - maybe it's just the digital sound is the problem part. I should try a physical one, and see how that works out.

Thanks!

I don't play using the metronome, but I've been finding it handy when trying to figure out the current piece: Froberger, so overlapping different length note suspensions in different fingers at the same time and across bars. The metronome has helped me to achieve certainty on the *relative* values where the value range is very wide.

I just set the speed to *pretty slow and comfortable*, and then hummed/tapped out the individual notes in time with the metronome, a few times.

(Of course Froberger also means inegalite etc., so the final result should not be metronomic, but I need a good foundation first.)

I'm still plodding along! I'm up to 52 now and am starting to get comfortable with it a bit more...


I was able to use it for the first time with a song at a speed of 84 yesterday! Huge improvement! I'm now starting to be able to go oh I'm not very smooth in the section and out comes my clicker!

Congratulations, BeccaBb! It's nice to see that metronome-phobia is not a terminal condition, but can be cured by consistent work.

Thank you! I figure if I can learn how to use this thing anyone can! I think it's combination of finding the right metronome for you, plus starting out really really slow with something simple and then building up with daily practice!

There is hope! LOL

Hi Becca...

Your tenacity and good attitude is wonderful! Learning to play the piano is hard, which is why only a few do it.

I noticed that in your video you are "pushing" the beat, i.e. as the scale progresses, you are going faster than the metronome.

That is very common, most people increase their speed as they play, and is thus one of the most common things that the metronome will correct.

If you were my student, I would suggest you do the following:

1. Get a rattle or tambourine and slap your leg (lighty) with it as the metronome clicks, but while you do not play. Do this with each hand singly. This gets your body moving with the beat, without the mental/physical burden of playing the right notes w/the right fingers.

2. Do the above, only add in counting on the beat. (1-2-3-4) Count out loud, and make it LOUD, not under your breath. Counting in your head at this stage does not work very well. Make it very LOUD. (I know its embarrassing).

3. Play one hand of the scale with the metronome, and slap the rattle with the other.

4. Then play the other hand as above.

5. Add in counting ( 1-2-3-4) with playing ONE hand only.

6. Then the other hand.

7. Play both hands together, with counting, with the metronome. Do this last, after you can play with each hand, on the beat w/o speeding up.

All of these are tools I have used successfully to help people integrate the beat.

Best Wishes.

Well done! Now try to play WITH the click, not a bit before it. It's not about being able to keep up, more about having complete control over your playing.

Hi Becca

Its great to see you implementing the advice you recieved....and to see that it is working. Good job.

It may be too soon for this, and I would defer to the teachers hereabouts on the subject, but I would love to see you get that left pinky under control while you are doing this nice slow scale work. It seems like the perfect time to me. You are going to have to eliminate that tension sooner or later. (Can't see the right pinky, but it too if it is flying like the left.)

To get it under control you may actually have to play just one note, then stop and totally relax your hand, keeping all fingers in contact with the keys.....only then can you play the second note, stop...relax in contact with the keys....play the third note.... etc..etc.. This can be painfully, irritatingly slow, and requires great patience on your part, but I can attest firsthand to the fact that this works wonders if actually followed for a week or so.

Jim

Becca - you have my respect for keeping at this. Thumbs double up!

Cathy

JimF, I'm expected to be practicing other things this week but I am going to follow your suggestions and see if I can become a paid-up member of the Pinkie Relaxation Club!

(An interlude after work to stop at the music store to buy More Music! Yay!, and now I'm at the piano.)

Oh. My.

My Left Pinkie is TWITCHING when I tell it to relax. Very interesting. To teach it what relaxed is, I'm dangling my hand at my side and then raising it to the keys. If I just reach for the keys without that, it can't find relaxed. Wow. Thank you so much for posting about this, JimF.

Thank you for all the suggestions (where to start hmmm...)

Rocket: I do count outloud to the point I don't realize I'm doing it anymore! I"m trying to teach myself to tap with my left foot but it exhausts quickly.. I'm not giving up though. I do tap and clap to try to "feel" it but I'm going to try your suggestions also as I do have trouble keeping rhythm with one hand while playing with the other. Thank you.

Exalted Wombat: I'm still a bit off? Darn I will keep at it

Jim: I have decided to dedicate part of my scale work (I added in about 10 minutes a day) to work on my pinky. It is only on my left side. My hand is brutally tense. I will try your method as I can't seem to make it relax and I know that is its problem.

Cathy: Thank you.

PS: Maybe we should start a Defeat the flying Pinky club! LOL

Becca and PS88,

I am glad you are going to try the slooooooowwww relax method....and would be even happier if you did it with your teacher's guidance.

Anyway, lest you think you are doing it too slow and want to speed up, when I first worked on this I would literally count to 10 in between each note. Can't stress enough - just wait until your hand is totally relaxed (and all fingers in contact with the keys) before playing the next note - however long that takes. Once you get the hand relaxed, try to focus your mind on what that feels like. Then play the next note, and wait for the hand to relax again, however long it takes.

JimF: + 1

Just add that everytime you move a finger be sure not to drag others, and that others remain in contact with the keys. Try this first with only 5 notes, and then with the scale.

JimF and supertorpe, thanks for the additional advice. JimF, I will tell my teacher about this, but when I brought up my concern about my stiff pinkies about a month ago, she didn't offer any advice. I've started a "Teacher doubts" thread in the Teachers' forum here.

Jim & Super: +2 (or +1 each)

The general idea is that whatever force you need to press the key immediately disappears as soon as it's pressed. So press, relax. The weight of your hand/finger is enough to keep the key pressed.

The 5 fingers on 5 keys suggestion is spot on. Basically you are trying to create finger independence and remove any impulses to move your other fingers, either up or down. There are 2 main nerve paths that feed your fingers, one to your thumb, index and middle finger, and the other to your last 2 fingers. It's because of this that 4 and 5 give you the most trouble. What you are trying to get rid of while doing an exercise like this is the nerve impulse "spilling over" to another finger. So put 5 fingers on five keys and press the first key, release, then the 2nd, release and so on. You will quickly discover which fingers are connected and be able to start training them to work more independently.

Lastly, as to the timing, at slow tempos like that, it's often hard to feel a slow beat. My suggestion is to double the metronome time and play every 2 beats (still will be the same speed, just more clicks). This will help you feel what are called subdivisions of a beat. Feeling these should make it easier to not rush. Then you can go back to your original tempo and test that theory.