When you guys are doing something melodic for long stretches, are you in full concentration of the melodies the whole time? Or do you take a breath and let some filler stuff sneak on so you can get back your bearings?

I was noticing that I can concentrate on melodies for a period then I lose it, and it may take awhile to get the ideas flowing again. It's a very draining experience.

Wow! "Conversation between Scotts". That was great and swinging. And really nice lines. Impressive, man. It was fun listening to it in stereo.

...hey are you grunting like Keith Jarrett there? Is that a separate track?

As always Scott, I really like your playing. You've got a real sense for arranging, and your melodies are really, really musical. You know, it would be cool if you remixed it with the comping turned down by about 50% (as beeboss said).
Great rhythmic feel, and you kept the tempo consistent all the way through. I still have trouble with speeding up when I play at certain tempo ranges, so I really appreciate that you did this without a metronome.
One suggestion though, monster hands, why aren't you walking in 10ths in the bass? If you've got it, flaunt it, right? I met Jessica Williams years ago, and I mentioned to her that she has such a great open sound to her chords and she compared her hand to mine--a span of a 12th compared to my 9th/10th. grrr.

...the swing ratio of the soloist and its relation to the cymbal accompaniment was measured from the same recordings. In slow tempi, the soloists were mostly playing their downbeats after the cymbal but were synchronized with the cymbal at the off-beats. This implied that the swing ratio of the soloist was considerably smaller than the cymbal accompaniment in slow tempi. It may give an impression of "playing behind" but at the same time keep the synchrony with the accompaniment at the off-beat positions."

This is exactly why I'm trying to get to where I can lock into a metronome playing only on the "and"... the off-beat. I think that's where the beat really is.

Great playing and thanks so much for the encouragement! You are doing the "whole conversation with myself" very gracefully. One thing though, like Beeboss said I do have similar concerns about the comping.. for me it seems like you are rushing them ever-so-slightly and that's contributing to the problem. I do this exercise where I record myself playing with the metronome on the keyboard and record it, do the same without the metronome at the same tempo using different patch, and play both at the same time. It made me realize just how much I rush certain rhythms, especially in comping. At first I felt really uncomfortable waiting/leaving so much space to play those rhythm like they are supposed to, but I feel like I am slowly figuring out when it feels right and when it doesn't

While scientific understanding of swing feel is interesting, I am guessing for most of us it's probably more helpful to have an more intuitive way of approaching them. It's not about knowing it in your head but knowing/feeling it in your ears and in your bodies.

I'm asking you guys about the journey to getting to the level of concentration you already have now. First you need to confirm to yourself that the point when your melodies are perfect for a whole tune or portion of a tune are actually good. Rely on your own conscience and ego for that.

But how long did it take you to get there? Or did you even get there?

I'm asking you guys about the journey to getting to the level of concentration you already have now. First you need to confirm to yourself that the point when your melodies are perfect for a whole tune or portion of a tune are actually good. Rely on your own conscience and ego for that.

But how long did it take you to get there? Or did you even get there?

I guess I will know on the day I play a perfect melody ;-)

I think focus is a quality that needs work just like groove or speed.
I try to play simple things perfectly, Bach or Mozart maybe, or just a ballad with a fairly straight melody.
It is very very hard even to play one phrase so perfectly that it would be impossible for anyone to play it better. But you can learn a lot whilst trying.

What's different from "speech" though is that you're under time pressure (milliseconds). Most of us can have a nice conversation and story but we don't have to partition our words within the beats exactly and time it to the swing beat LOL.

So the "speech" or "speech idioms = licks" isn't a precise analogy. This thing we do is really different.

And of course most of us don't speak like orators. We have accents, flubs, irritating repetitiveness, boring stories, and so on.

Yeah, I agree. The time is different. But there is still an element of rhythm to speech, in the way things are phrased, accented, and even in how we have breaks in thoughts or stumble over words. We of course notice the difference in non-native English speakers and people from different regions. When the rhythms in speech are disrupted it's noticeable, and for those who aren't native speakers of a language, its not easy to articulate your thoughts. And obviously most people aren't artists when they speak. I just think that it's the closest thing that we all understand to what improvising music should be like... with artistry of course.

I've given another try to see if conscious attention to the swing beat will help out. I've slowed it down even more from the last recording to make it more difficult to me. This is the most uncomfortable tempo for me.

I agree with Chris about the being present while you play. More and more I find that ideas just come out when I don't force it. Of course it's alot of concentration, but more like the kind of concentration it takes to focus on your breathing and block all other thoughts out of your mind. Like meditating.

But there's no way I could have done this during the first years of learning to play. I've found that it's been a process of getting so comfortable with things that you start to have greater and greater intuitive certainty about what sound you will get before you play it. And, just as much so, a stronger and stronger connection to the sound of the changes to keep from losing your place no matter what you play. So when you do surprise yourself, you stay connected to your direction and adapt to the change of course without losing your focus.

For me, I've noticed this coming on gradually over the last few years and it's really exciting. It's a level of control that I never really knew could exist when I was starting out. I just tried to "muscle" my way through everything and thought that pure thinking power would get me there. But it's more like speaking your native language... it just happens because you know it. You don't have to think about the words, just what you are saying. While I have noticed a change over the years in how my playing sounds, the biggest change is inside...the way I feel about what I play. I'm getting more in control all the time. But, I still have a long way to go. I guess it never ends, but the journey is great.

I've given another try to see if conscious attention to the swing beat will help out. I've slowed it down even more from the last recording to make it more difficult to me. This is the most uncomfortable tempo for me.

I think I maintained my concentration a good amount of the time. And you will hear when I lost it.

Hammer away...

ATTYA Swing Practice
http://www.box.com/s/s8hev05a6qft6qbzs2th

Were you just looking for comments about the swing, or the melodic aspects as well?

I don't have an easy way of getting a good rhythm section for practice (with bass). iRealB is all I have

Better to make like Scott and just lay down a bass line I think. I don't think anyone could swing with that cymbal.

Scott, these are really great thoughts and observations. You really should consider teaching piano. haha

--For those that haven't checked out his website you should do so-- If he were in the neighbourhood I'd take lessons with him.

Scott, more than anything else, it really seems that you can identify with the struggles with learning how to play jazz piano, and that you've kept track of these. The great thing is that you've now come to a place that you can look back at the majority of those issues and be able to talk from the other side, so to speak, but you're also not so far along that you've forgotten where you've come from. I think sometimes those are the best teachers, rather than trying to learn from the phenomes that didn't really go through the same issues.

I've given another try to see if conscious attention to the swing beat will help out. I've slowed it down even more from the last recording to make it more difficult to me. This is the most uncomfortable tempo for me.

I think I maintained my concentration a good amount of the time. And you will hear when I lost it.

Hammer away...

ATTYA Swing Practice
http://www.box.com/s/s8hev05a6qft6qbzs2th

Well that is the point. It's always been said that one should listen to the bass player for the groove.

I'm not good enough at bass to lay my own track.

Well, it's swingin', just a little slippery at times.

Overall, for trying to really swing, I think your articulation is too flowing.

I've transcribed and played lots of blues. So I presume you're talking about the phrase endings where I cut the eighth note? I don't think I'm doing that.

When I listen to Wynton, he plays shorter phrases at this tempo so there's more opportunity to hear those cut eighths.

What do you think?

I've tried some Aebeorsolds but of course I've got to stick to tune and tempo available. Some of them have really complex drumming too.

Why don't you share a track of you playing blues? I'm quite curious because you mentioned that your first teacher emphasized learning the blues with you, but I've never actually heard you play anything that sounded like it was using any part of the blues scales. Who knows, maybe you'll have a better feel with it?

Just to be clear, I hated that one year of Blues. That's all I did then. I did nothing but play licks for one year. Nothing came from me.