I see no reason to stress about finger numbers.

Dyslexia is a deeper learning issue than many understand. Depending upon the student, you could have the best games and cutsies and the student still not learn the finger numbers. Instead of forcing the student into a method, find how they learn and modify your technique to their learning style. You have to communicate in their language.

Have you thought of using finger names instead of numbers? pinky, pointer etc, or whatever you and he want to devise.

I see no reason to stress about finger numbers.

Dyslexia is a deeper learning issue than many understand. Depending upon the student, you could have the best games and cutsies and the student still not learn the finger numbers. Instead of forcing the student into a method, find how they learn and modify your technique to their learning style. You have to communicate in their language.

i have always wanted to work with a dyslexic.. to figure out how to teach him/ or her. Keep posting as you experiment. i think my own brother is somewhat dyslexic.. hard to tell because he has other learning disabilities. He learned by being shown how to play. reading music was beyond him.

I wonder what would happen if you actually isolated the idea of 'symmetry' and taught it to the student as a concept. I feel like putting a name/label on the problem for the student might bridge a connection and he might actually associate with the idea mores strongly.

It's deep, yes, but the real danger is assuming that because people have this "disabiity" they will not play well. For each person it is different.

I have had students who could not process finger numbers UNTIL they had already mastered fingering to a great extent. We do not need to use finger numbers to teach the concept of what is comfortable, and chords are very good for shaping the hands. For chords fingering can be shown, non-verbally. While getting a sensible hand position for the LH chords, you can allow the RH to use any fingering in the universe, which I call "Martian" fingering.

My beginners will often read rather well, with quite primative fingering, but as they become more confident they will often "invent" fingering that is absolutely brilliant. I see unusual crosses, finger substitutions, course correction on the fly.

If they learn to use their hands in a logical way first, it is usually not a big deal introducing the idea of "guide" fingers, a single finger number at the beginning of a phrase. If, for instance, there is a five-finger position starting on any key and ascending and the number 1 is there, it is not unusual to see such students start on 5, the pinky. But they discover that it is awkward, and usually if they grasp the pattern, they self-correct to the thumb because it is logical.

Flipping the notes themselves is a much larger problem, for instance reading bottom line E as top line F, in the treble, but usually that works its way out too.

Now, if the problem is REALLY severe, more severe than I have ever encountered, I don't know how that would go. But usually it seems to me that the "problem" is serious only when we do not use creative solutions to find "other ways in".

thanks Chris.. i hope i haven't stepped on anyone's toes. It's difficult to say what one wants to say without infringing or opposing.

Being Dyslexic and playing the piano is really, really difficult. Not to mention that playing the piano is one of the most difficult musical endeavours a human can do, it is far more for a Dyslexic. In fact, even that I do play the piano, I would not recommend a piano as a first choice instrument to a Dyslexic child/adult, unless they really really want to play it.
They would get far more mileage out of playing a single-line instrument.

That said, how would I go about teaching a D. child?
Answer = No reading music, no finger numbers, no pages to look at. But: teach by ear, let them work it out, aid them in finding there own way, let them play music . . . in other words; nearly everything that one would do with a "normal" child does not with a D. child. The Suzuki method is a way to go.

According to a psychologist I once heard (and he is dyslexic), dyslexia is always accompanied by ADD. That knowledge might help you in pacing the lesson.

According to a psychologist I once heard (and he is dyslexic), dyslexia is always accompanied by ADD. That knowledge might help you in pacing the lesson.

That said, how would I go about teaching a D. child?
Answer = No reading music, no finger numbers, no pages to look at. But: teach by ear, let them work it out, aid them in finding there own way, let them play music . . . in other words; nearly everything that one would do with a "normal" child does not with a D. child. The Suzuki method is a way to go.

It starts looking like ADD when you try to force him into the teacher's style instead of the teacher adapting for his style of learning. That is why I'm always suggesting that the teachers be flexible in their methods. The teachers are supposed to be the educated ones and should be able to step out of their zone to accommodate learning styles. As the student matures, you can then bring them back into a more centralized area of the subject.

It isn't.

Though the frustration of struggling with dyslexia in a reading-based world may give that appearance.

That said, how would I go about teaching a D. child?
Answer = No reading music, no finger numbers, no pages to look at. But: teach by ear, let them work it out, aid them in finding there own way, let them play music . . . in other words; nearly everything that one would do with a "normal" child does not with a D. child. The Suzuki method is a way to go.

Well, turn a book upside down. If someone does not have the natural ability to read upside down, and some of my young students DO have this ability, then that person will be totally frustrated in five minutes at being asked to read a book that way. And will show all the symtoms of children who get irritable and discouraged.

In a teaching workshop on learning disabilities, we were asked to pair up. One person wrote something on a piece of paper or drew something, and then held a mirror to it. The other person had to copy what he saw in the reflection. You would see the word "pat" and your "p" turned into a g or d or b even though you knew how the word was spelled. You'd want to go to the left but your pen went to the right. All of us felt very tense in a short time. We then upped the ante: the "teacher" set up a stream of encouraging words, "It's not that hard." "You're smart enough to figure it out." "Don't take so long, you're overthinking it." One and all, it was only civility that prevented us from bopping our partner over the head. Irritable did not begin to describe it.

That said, how would I go about teaching a D. child?
Answer = No reading music, no finger numbers, no pages to look at. But: teach by ear, let them work it out, aid them in finding there own way, let them play music . . . in other words; nearly everything that one would do with a "normal" child does not with a D. child. The Suzuki method is a way to go.

That is making an incorrect assumption that proper Suzuki instructors do not teach reading, do not use finger numbers, do not use pages -- I am a Suzuki teacher and I teach all of that from book one -- especially with my language reading beginners. I just teach it in a different way and in a different order then someone using something like a Bastien book. But I still teach it. Suzuki can be easier for those with processing disorders but it is not void of reading.

You have to know your method and know the disorder you are working with to know where to tweak, modify and communicate it.

About 1/2 of my studio has processing disorders of various kinds including dyslexia.

Some days you have to keep using different language until you find something that turns the light on for them. I use my white board and colored markers a LOT with these kids. I use a lot of concrete words and make pictures. I never just rote teach them or discount their intellect because they do not fit the "typical" model. It is my job to teach them and to figure out how to teach them when they fall outside of the "norm".

http://www.medicinenet.com/dyslexia/article.htm

I thought it was implying that traditional instruction is not necessarily the solution to helping people with dyslexia.

The fact that my hands are mirror symmetric and the keyboard is repetitive in a non-mirror symmetric way completely does my head in. I have to not think about it, or I just can't cope.

Thankyou for posting your experience Mary Ann. I also teach the father (also imo dyslexic) and he has the same difficulties as you with hands together. . . .

What can I do to help him? How can I make this easier? I would do anything to ease his progress. He is absolutely determined to learn, and to learn the regular, classical way, learning to read. What element of HT is easier for someone with this kind of problem?

Thankyou for posting your experience Mary Ann. I also teach the father (also imo dyslexic) and he has the same difficulties as you with hands together. I'm in a bind - at some point I have to teach hands together. I can't have him doing HS for two years and then he comes to me and asks why he can't play! I have started him out on some unison tunes (first HS, then HT) and he does struggle, especially at finger 3.

What can I do to help him? How can I make this easier? I would do anything to ease his progress. He is absolutely determined to learn, and to learn the regular, classical way, learning to read. What element of HT is easier for someone with this kind of problem?