Hi teachers,

I am an adult student who has just started lessons again a couple of months ago. I stopped having lessons 14 years ago after completing my Grade 8. Since then, I have just been playing on my own for leisure. My goal in taking lessons is just to get my techniques right (For e.g. I know my fingers are always way too tense, and I do not know what it means to use my arms to play and not just my fingers etc) and learn to play the piano much better.

I'm enjoying my lessons so far, and I am lucky to have a very knowledgeable teacher, who is also very patient and encouraging. The two problems I mentioned above (tense fingers and playing only with the fingers) have greatly diminished.

Like any enthusiastic and a tad obsessed student out there, I just wish to also be responsible for my own learning. It has been years since I had formal lessons and also the first time where I am not learning for the sake of passing any exams, so in a sense, there's no real benchmark to work towards. Right now, I'm working on a couple of pieces (both pieces are my choices, btw), and each week, she would show me what to do and correct my fingering on some difficult passages, which I must say, really helped me do things I can't possibly do had I studied those pieces on my own.

Ok. My question to you teachers:

So my question is, how do piano teachers teach when you and the student have no exams to work towards? I'm not saying i'm not learning anything now; I am, and I'm truly grateful to this teacher. I guess I'm learning now as I work through the pieces. Perhaps my teacher IS teaching me but not explicitly like "Ok, I'm going to teach you how to play legato the next 5 lessons, then next i'm going to work on your pedaling." Maybe that's not how it can work with piano teaching, unlike with school subjects where you can go topic by topic.

I'm just trying to see how other teachers teach students like myself, whether you will do what my teacher do (teach stuff as we encounter difficulties in the music) or you have a more systematic approach. And if any of you teachers out there do have a different approach, I could perhaps try to ask more questions to my teacher during my lesson.

Sorry for the long post. But thought I needed to give some background info to my situation. Any feedback will be greatly appreciated.

Amaranth, when you started lessons, did you tell your teacher your goal for taking lessons? ("My goal in taking lessons is just to get my techniques right.") If so, part of the answer could be there.

I've never asked but I'd bet you a nickel my piano teacher has never taught a adult single student with any interest in taking exams. Outside of this discussion forum, I have never even encountered anyone aware of such a thing much less making it the focus of their piano lessons.

My teacher did tell me two things about her adult students. First, they generally have a good idea of the goals they are working toward (unlike kids who are not generally goal oriented). And no two adult students are exactly alike in their goals.

Our initial conversation seemed to mostly focus on two thing. What type of music did I want to be working on from the beginning and what longer-term skills and techniques did I wish to develop through my lessons and practice. And we split each lesson roughly half-and-half between detailed work on one or two songs and more general instruction toward skill development.

P.S. I shouldn't repeat this but she also muttered something about not every student's goals being at all realistic. But I guess that's just part of the teaching challenge!

Hi Keystring,

yes, I did tell my teacher that my goal is to get my basic technique right, and to play the instrument better. I wonder if that's too vague for my teacher! But I'm not sure what you mean when you say that part of the answer could be there.

Hi Amaranth,

First I must let you know I mostly teach beginners...and am not qualified to teach someone at your level. But here's my opinion anyway.

It seems your question is really about what goals to set, rather than how to teach advancing students.

You've mentioned you completed Grade 8 exams. Perhaps one of your goals would be to get your Grade 8 skills back (if they're lacking).

You could ask what pieces your teacher would recommend that you work on (in addition to your choice pieces).

You've got technique goals which could be defined more carefully.

It sounds like you're a bit uncomfortable stepping outside the box of working towards passing exams. Naturally, you do not want to do aimless wandering for the next few years. You're looking for the reassurance of a systematic approach. It seems to me that this is why there are so many graded repertoire series. They provide more structured learning than just picking random pieces of interest.

If you really want to go the exam route, you could. Or follow the structure set out for exams whether you sit for exams or not.

Do you have any performance goals? Any particular type of music that is of interest? This would come into play with setting goals.

Hi Brent,

Thanks for your response. Hahah! I guess you are right. Most adults would learn the piano because they just want to be able to play something. I guess when I was typing, I was thinking of those adults who perhaps learnt piano 'halfway' - like up to grade 5 then stopped, and then come back to it again. Maybe even those may not want the burden of preparing for exams again.

Yup, I did tell my teacher the music I like to play - classical - and I am the one who chose the pieces which we are working on now.

When you say that you and your teacher spend half of the lesson on general instruction, what exactly do you all do? And is it progressive, for example, this week she talks about pedaling, and the next few weeks you guys built on what you learn about pedaling before moving on to something else? Are there any rationale as to why she teachers something first before another? Does your teacher come up with what to do during the general instruction half of the lesson, or were you the one who came up with the questions?

sorry! I know that's a lot of questions!

Sorry for the sloppy terminology. It's actually pretty specific instruction just "general" in the sense of being things that are skills instead of specific to some particular song I'm working on at the moment.

We're actually having opportunities to cover a good bit of technique (i.e. legato, interpreting jazz rhythms, dynamics, pedaling, hand position) in the context of some specific songs. But my "general" topic are mostly understanding and hearing harmony with an eventual goal of coming up with my own arrangements and an intermediate goal of learning to extemporize from melody+chord lead sheets.

So far it's mostly working through simple chord progressions and finding certain combinations of voicing each chord to get idiomatically correct voice leading. We spend some lesson time spelling out chords that she plays for me, then I spend practice time drilling on one or two variations that were covered in the previous lesson. Walk before I can run level, definitely.

In the most recent lesson I also took in a couple of fiddle tunes that I play on mandolin and got feedback on the simple broken-chord accompaniment I had come up with on my own, which dovetailed well into that lesson's harmony portion.

P.S. For concrete examples I have learned about "secondary dominants" in one lesson, covered "tritone substitutions" in another (both of which I was vaguely familiar with) and this week was introduced to the concept of "shell voicings" which I had never heard of before. Mostly in the context of the ii-V-I chord progression and related variants. Next week we'll start working through the same material w.r.t minor keys.

Hi Ann

Thanks for replying. Any perspective from any teacher is valuable to me.

Yes, you are right in saying that I seem uncomfortable stepping outside the box of work towards passing exams. I think that's why I'm having so many questions about how to track my progress, and whether I'm making full use of my teacher's expertise. But I do not wish to get back to the cycle of preparing for exams again, at least not for the moment because, i think saying that you have a diploma, or distinction in Grade 8 really doesn't mean anything in the end; you can still play like crap everything else besides the exam pieces you worked on. :P I'm more concerned with building up skills.

My aim now is to correct all my fundamental mistakes, strengthen my technique, and learn/develop good ear/musical taste to give a decent interpretation to whatever I play. Performance goal would be a repertoire of 10 songs. I think it is embarrassing that I can't play anything without the score in front of me! So the pieces I'm working on now, are also those that I hope to be memorized and in my repertoire.

What kind of songs? Well, I want to be able to play songs that I enjoy, and I won't be bored of practicing/playing again and again. Unfortunately, the interesting ones to be are also the more difficult ones. The pieces I am working on now are admittedly challenging works for my level, and I don't mind taking a long time to learn them. And because they are challenging, they are providing lots of good material for us to work on.

I did ask my teacher to please tell me if there are other pieces that she thinks would be more suitable to build up my technique, but she said the pieces that I'm working on are fine.

I'm also afraid that I might appear rude should I ask her what goals she has for me, and how she would monitor my progress.

That's why I wonder how teachers teach - do they teach within the context of a piece? Is that the norm? How do you teach your students new stuff? Do you teach as you work on new pieces with your students?

Somewhere on this site, the senior teacher M. Lewis discusses two essential approaches which teachers may adopt though there will always be some crossover. Piano Pedagogy - M. Lewis One is "product oriented" and one is "process oriented". Product means aiming toward pieces, contests, exams etc. Technique fits into it too, but for the purpose of doing the pieces. Process means to develop the student as a musician, giving the skills and tools. Pieces fit into it, because you choose pieces that will help the student practice the skills. Most teachers will have a mix. Generally students and parents relate most readily to the "product". They are able to see "progress" through x number of pieces at grades 1, 2 and 3, grading in exams and ranking in competitions. Therefore many teacher who would be process-oriented have to gear themselves toward "product". You have to get and keep students.

When you were a student the first time round, it seems that you got the "product" approach. It was very clear to see a sense of direction because you'd go from grade to grade, marching along a visible plan. Since after those years of lessons you have technical issues, maybe that side of it (developing you as a musician) was not done much. Now you are after "process" - it is not as defined as a list of repertoire, and you are only used to how your old lessons went.

It is good that you did define your goals because if you have a good teacher, she can now work toward them. It's not like math., though, where you spend a month on the algebra chapter and another month on geometry. Technique is all intertwined. Technique resides in music, and by trying to bring out a musical thing like legato or crescendo in a passage that has a certain tempo and range of notes, you are employing/learning technique. Also, you are not a programmable robot. It will involve what you are shown, what you try as you practice the piece, what happens and what your teacher observes the following week. Your teacher will be choosing what she tells you, what she has you work out, what she assigns, how she asks you to work on it - what she is doing and why will not always be visible to you. If after a few months you noticed that playing is easier for you, some things that were difficult now aren't, you feel physically more comfortable - that means something is going right.

I think for something like this the line of communication should be fairly open. You might want to ask your teacher from time to time how you are doing, what types of things she'd like you to concentrate on, or similar. From what I understand, teachers are happy to get students who don't just want to learn a bunch of pieces fast or graduate to advanced repertoire as quickly as possible.

Don't be afraid, it's not rude. It's her job to have these things in mind. Though if you've not already discussed it, she may still be feeling you out. This would be a good opportunity for you to tell her what your own goals are, as it seems they have crystallized somewhat during this discussion.

Brent, Thanks for describing in detail what you do during your lesson. I have a better idea now of what you mean.

Ten Left Thumbs,

(haha! I like your username!) Yup, you are right. Should just ask. I think I'm too worried that she might think I'm implying that i felt lessons are going nowhere! I'm too cautious about hurting anyone's feelings! Yeah, I will find an opportunity to ask during my next lesson.

Keystring,

Thanks! I found what you wrote very helpful. It kind of reassured me that the kind of teaching my teacher is doing with me, is still teaching! Yes, like what you said, after these few months of lesson, I do feel i have a better tone, I'm not just playing with my fingers, I could travel faster across the keyboard so yes, I'm learning and something is going right! But like what you and Ten Left Thumbs suggested, open communication is still necessary, and I shouldn't feel shy about asking for feedback or where we are headed.

Thanks so much!

But still, if anyone out there is having interesting lessons where your teacher is doing something else besides what I describe, please do describe what you do and I can perhaps suggest to my teacher incorporating those things in our lessons.

Hm. I think that the "how to" part is your teacher's area, while what your goals are and questions arising from what you are practising is your area. Just a hunch.

haha. Yes, I get what you mean. I meant to say that, if there are other interesting things happening in other people's lessons, I could ask more questions to my teacher to get more response in that area. I don't mean I'm gonna suggest to her that she should teach in a certain way.

Sounds good.