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#1837823 - 02/03/12 09:43 AM Kawai CN43 vs Kawai CA13
Bogs Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/17/10
Posts: 133
I want to upgrade from my Korg SP250 with the initial buget ~1500e and settled on a Kawai. On thomann, CN43 and CA13 are the same price (1600e). I want to mention I only play classical, mostly with headphones because of the practice hours, but sometimes in the weekends I have friends coming over, either I teach them piano or we play duets together.

CA13
*RM3 w/o let-off [I don't care that much for let-off]
-no String Resonance [this is a MAJOR omission - :(]
-no Line In [speakers are just 2x15W, so I guess that's why. It would have still be nice though...]
+Damper Resonance [vs Damper Effect on the CN. James says it's better, but can anyone hear the difference? In the end, it's still PHI samples in the background...]

CN43
*RH with let-off
+nice speaker system, with line in capability [to run those software pianos!]
+mellow grand [I really love mellow pianos, this was my favorite when I tested the CN33]
+minor pluses: LCD, play/record MP3, more polyphony, Plate Reverb [my favorite reverb for the Galaxy Pianos]

In the end, is the RM3 worth it? Sound-wise, the CA13 doesn't have the mellow piano (can the brilliance setting change that?), string resonance and has inferior speakers. It's a downright downgrade!

Note: I can't test the RM3 myself...the only Kawai dealer in the country(!) is a 7 hour train ride away from were I live. Not to mention it's outside the city and the only way you can get there is by taxi. Went there anyway and she only had the CN33 and CL26 on display. She had an MP10 boxed, but didn't want to open it/was already sold, something of the sort.
_________________________
old Gaveau upright & Kawai CA63; previously Korg SP250

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#1837830 - 02/03/12 09:57 AM Re: Kawai CN43 vs Kawai CA13 [Re: Bogs]
toddy Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/30/11
Posts: 1743
Loc: Portugal
Sounds as if the only solid reason for getting the CA13 would be the keyboard action - apart from that, it does seem rather poor for that price. In this country, Kawai is also difficult to find, but was able to find an MP6 (same keyboard as CN33/ CN43) but I didn't like it as much as Yamaha and certainly much preferred PHAII/III from Roland.

Are you sure RM3 is exactly the keyboard you require? (I know it is highly regarded on this forum, but then again, so is Kawai RH, which I found a bit spongy).
_________________________
Roland HP 302, Yamaha SY85

Reaper / NI Komplete 9 /Kontakt 5// EWQL Sym Choirs/ Sym Orchestra Silver/ MOR2
Mics: SP B1 & MXL V67g/ Alesis MicTube Preamp/ Xenyx302/ Yamaha HS7s .

"Only a fool is fooled" pv88, All Fools' Day 2014.

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#1838046 - 02/03/12 03:51 PM Re: Kawai CN43 vs Kawai CA13 [Re: Bogs]
Ocngypz Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/06/11
Posts: 75
I wouldn't give up "mellow piano 1" on my CN 43 for anything.
Especially when playing with strings and winds.

I'm classical too.

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#1838821 - 02/05/12 04:50 AM Re: Kawai CN43 vs Kawai CA13 [Re: Bogs]
Bogs Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/17/10
Posts: 133
@toddy: I tried a Yamaha CLP430 and a Roland [I don't remeber the model...I wanted to try the FP-7F, but they didn't have it in the store], but liked the Kawai CN33 more.

The thing with the CN43 is that I feel like I'm paying for a lot of features I won't use...all those instruments, rythms, the 100W power..I don't really need all of that. On the other hand I would like to have the mellow piano, string resonance, a line in possibility...

On the other hand my main reason for upgrading is that I find it difficult to adjuns to acoustics when coming from my SP250. It might also be the fact that when I get the chance to play an acoustic I'm surrounded by a lot of people, but that's a different story.. I want a digital instrument within the budget with as close an action to an acoustic. But is it worth the sacrifice?

Note: when I say acoustic, I mean upright. Concert pianos are pretty hard to come by and thus play... That's why I said I don't mind the let-off simulation missing.
_________________________
old Gaveau upright & Kawai CA63; previously Korg SP250

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#1838833 - 02/05/12 05:44 AM Re: Kawai CN43 vs Kawai CA13 [Re: Bogs]
sentient Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/27/11
Posts: 32
Must it be Kawai?
You should also consider ROland Fp7f, which has also a very advanced keyboard and you should be able to create a "close-to-perfect" piano sound?!

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#1838856 - 02/05/12 07:19 AM Re: Kawai CN43 vs Kawai CA13 [Re: Bogs]
toddy Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/30/11
Posts: 1743
Loc: Portugal
Originally Posted By: Bogs
@toddy: I tried a Yamaha CLP430 and a Roland [I don't remeber the model...I wanted to try the FP-7F, but they didn't have it in the store], but liked the Kawai CN33 more.

The thing with the CN43 is that I feel like I'm paying for a lot of features I won't use...all those instruments, rythms, the 100W power..I don't really need all of that. On the other hand I would like to have the mellow piano, string resonance, a line in possibility...

On the other hand my main reason for upgrading is that I find it difficult to adjuns to acoustics when coming from my SP250. It might also be the fact that when I get the chance to play an acoustic I'm surrounded by a lot of people, but that's a different story.. I want a digital instrument within the budget with as close an action to an acoustic. But is it worth the sacrifice?

Note: when I say acoustic, I mean upright. Concert pianos are pretty hard to come by and thus play... That's why I said I don't mind the let-off simulation missing.


Surely, then the Kawai CN33 would be perfect for you. It has the features you want - and I think it has the same principal piano sounds, but someone with a CN33 will tell you - but does not have the extras you don't want, and so it's cheaper. Perfect!
_________________________
Roland HP 302, Yamaha SY85

Reaper / NI Komplete 9 /Kontakt 5// EWQL Sym Choirs/ Sym Orchestra Silver/ MOR2
Mics: SP B1 & MXL V67g/ Alesis MicTube Preamp/ Xenyx302/ Yamaha HS7s .

"Only a fool is fooled" pv88, All Fools' Day 2014.

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#1839156 - 02/05/12 06:15 PM Re: Kawai CN43 vs Kawai CA13 [Re: Bogs]
Bogs Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/17/10
Posts: 133
@sentient: The Roland keyboard that I tried was way too light..plus fp-7f is 1900e, way out of the stretched budget!

@toddy: sure, the CN33 is still in the books. But the CN43 also fits within the budget...I'm still thinking about it.

In the meantime I found some youtube videos with the CA13:

Chopin - Raindrop prelude: check out the previous videos in the playlist also..
It sounds a little dry/simple for my taste...maybe the lack of those extra resonances? I suspect it's from LINE OUT

Yiruma - River flows in you
Obviously different recording method...the piano sounds fuller to my ears.

Chopin Fantasy Impromptu
So nice she posted this! Most pianos have Fantasy Impromptu as a demo, but I think she did a very good job! The piano sounds OK to me, maybe a little thin/not very resonant but it could be just a recording issue.

The main question remains: is the RM3 noticeably better than RH? Any members that had RH and upgraded to RM3?
_________________________
old Gaveau upright & Kawai CA63; previously Korg SP250

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#1839621 - 02/06/12 03:35 PM Re: Kawai CN43 vs Kawai CA13 [Re: Bogs]
Bogs Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/17/10
Posts: 133
I just realized another major inconvenience with the CA13 - there is no possibility to upgrade the software inside! I noticed both CA63 and CA93 received in their 1.07 update "Improvements to String Resonance and Damper Resonance algorithms". Are these improvements regarding Damper Resonance also in the CA13? frown

It's also interesting to note that the CN33 got "Improved String Resonance polyphony assignment" on 11/2010, while the initial software for CN43 was released 10/2010 and the next available update doesn't address the issue. Maybe the extra polyphony of the CN43 was enough so that the String Resonance implementation doesn't cause any issues.
_________________________
old Gaveau upright & Kawai CA63; previously Korg SP250

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#1839677 - 02/06/12 05:04 PM Re: Kawai CN43 vs Kawai CA13 [Re: Bogs]
Kawai James Online   content
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 9332
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Bogs, it's theoretically still possible to upgrade the CA13 firmware, however the process (via old fashioned MIDI) is timely, and not terribly convenient when compared to the USB method.

James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#1841296 - 02/09/12 02:02 PM Re: Kawai CN43 vs Kawai CA13 [Re: Bogs]
Bogs Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/17/10
Posts: 133
I have decided to save a bit more and hopefully in late spring/early summer I can buy a Kawai CA63! I can't wait!
_________________________
old Gaveau upright & Kawai CA63; previously Korg SP250

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