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Noise gate??? What's that?

like I mentioned on here prior , The N3 sounds yes pretty good but I would like to here this ivory 2 through it but reading some of the problems people are having regards noise gate and some have had latency problems but after saying all this I am pretty happy with the avant grand n3

The AvantGrand mutes the line-in if the incoming volume is below a certain threshold. In principle this could be designed to mute out random incoming noise (from radio waves, etc).

When playing the fat part of your notes on the software piano it's not an issue, but when you let them decay all the way, it makes the note flutter in and out before it dies out completely.

It should be a federal law that noise gates come with an off switch...

Thanks for the reply, I hadn't run across that before. I must say, as an electronic engineer that seems like a strange function to put on an instrument like this. A line input is a high level input, not a microphone input, and you certainly don't have to mute an input to remove RF noise. There shouldn't be any more of a noise problem on that input than an analog input of a hi-fi system.

True, but hi-fi systems typically only enable one input at a time - the input that is being used.

I proposed a couple of ideas to minimise the impact of the noise gate a while ago. (mix in a background tone that is perhaps inaudible - a very high or low frequency sine wave, and, use the highest possible input signal level that the N3 can tolerate without clipping, to maximise the usable dynamic range) I don't have access to an N3 and haven't tested either idea.

Greg.

It's still a dumb way to prevent a problem. If one is worried about noise on the "unused" aux input then make it a switchable input rather than gating it based on input level. But I still think it should be the responsibility of the source to be noise-free when not being used.

Agreed. If it could possibly cause a problem, make it optional/switchable.

This makes me wonder ... Why did Yamaha put it in there? I don't think my Clavinova has a noise gate. I don't think any of my equipment has it.

Did Yamaha discover a problem with their AG design that warranted a noise gate?

And, did they really even need to give the line input so much consideration? After all, this is a pure piano, with no ensemble/accompaniment features and no non-piano features. So I wouldn't expect many users to plug in a guitar for play-along. Indeed, I'm guessing that most owners won't plug anything into the line input.

I'm puzzled.

Yeah, me too. My Clavinova (CVP-409GP) doesn't have it. I would have sent it back as a defect if it did. (More likely I would have found the "noise gate" function in the schematic and disabled it.) I use my CVP 95% of the time as a MIDI keyboard to play virtual pianos.

I see why Yamaha would want aux inputs for their AGs. I imagine a number of people want to connect a MIDI sound module to add accompanying instruments to their piano playing. I have a friend that added MIDI output to his acoustical Steinway to drive a sound module.

What is so puzzling is that Yamaha obviously knows the "noise gate" is a problem. I found this today in the N1 manual under Troubleshooting.

Problem - Sound input to the AUX IN jacks is interrupted.

Cause/Solution - The output volume of the external device connected to this instrument is too low. Increase the output volume of the external device.

This pretty obviously refers to the "noise gate" issue.

Extremely odd, since the function seems so unnecessary in the first place. It's like something copied from a mixer function or PA amp with summed inputs using stage equipment where you might have long cables strung out picking up noise.

Good find Macy! They should specify the maximum allowable input level. If it can take "Redbook" levels (2V RMS), not all audio interfaces can go that high, so amping it up will help. Both my laptop and my semi-professional USB audio interface can only reach a bit more than half that level. Maybe it can accept even higher levels.

I think there's a user here that is not having this problem - I can't remember who it was. I think it was either the N1 or N2 that he was using. Maybe that user is using equipment that has a good strong output level.

Greg.

It's true, I couldn't yet replicate the issue on my N1. I don't know about output levels. My signal currently goes from my home studio mixer headphone output through long messy cables into the living room and into a small portable headphone amp (basically just to have easier volume adjustment on the N1 side) and then into the N1 inputs. Then to the N1 I connect my HD650 headphone.

I can try this evening to use the amp after the N1 output, which I guess would make more sense anyway.

If I let a note decay forever though, the signal will get quieter and quieter until it eventually reaches zero, no matter how loud the input signal was to begin with. That's what I would think at least. So the noise gate should kick in anyway.

I read recently on this forum kipesce I think is name is he was very up on this subject .would this noise gate problem effect most piano software such as galaxy etc

Agreed, but maybe the noise gate will kick in at such a low level that you don't notice it.

When you connect your headphone amp to the output of the N1, you can then experiment with different levels going IN to the N1. I.e, if you don't hear the problem, just reduce the volume of the mixer output, and then increase the volume on your headphone amp that is connected to the output of the N1, so that you are always listening at a normal level.

I assume it's fiddly to adjust the headphone volume on the N1, and that's why you want an amp with an easy to use volume control - yes?

Greg.

No, it's just that the mixer is in another room and I can't easily change the volume on that without physically moving my lazy ass.

How about if you unplug the headphones and use the onboard speakers?

Ok I figured out what was going on. There is indeed a noise gate. I hadn't heard it because the signal I put into it was fairly loud due to the headphone amp, but mainly it was because there is a bit of noise coming from the long messy cables (cheap extender cables, adapters and whatnot) that I hadn't noticed before. I think the volume plus the noise kept the noise gate open.

It's only a temporary setup for toying around a bit, but its amateurish character has apparently defeated the noise gate. Basically if the noise is loud enough, the noise gate never kicks in at all. No suprise I guess.

The noise isn't loud enough to really disturb me. I could certainly live with it. My ears seem to be tolerant in that regard.

This seems crazy. Can anyone think of a reason for this "feature". This just seems like a defective design to me in a product of this nature. I could rationalize something like this with a microphone input, but not a high level line input.

Yes. To me it seems to be a defect. Too bad the board doesn't have a YamahaJames member to address the point.

Its obviously a defect, yes. However, I think there is some merit in wanting to completely disable any input that is not being used, for the absolute best SNR, especially on a premium product. They should have used a switch of some description.

It would be good if someone could measure the maximum possible input level at the onset of clipping.

Greg.

To call it a defect suggests it was unintended by Yamaha and that something is faulty. It clearly was intended so it's not a defect as such - but there just doesn't seem to be a sensible explanation!

In fact it's totally crazy that there is this noise-gate. It's doubly cruel because one of the uses it most specifically excludes is the use of software pianos because a good deal of some piano music causes the listener to focus on very quiet, lingering and decaying passages and notes - and it is under these circumstances the noise-gate carves up the sound in a very ugly way.