Ok.. you need to get a better edition, first of all. I know, because I also have the Dover -- it's fine if you are an expert in Baroque keyboard music and can add your own articulations and interpretation, but most of us need help from the experts. If you're concerned about the cost, Schirmer's edition edited by Czerny is very inexpensive (under $20 for the complete).

There are so many 'authorities' that it becomes mindboggling as to which one to follow.

Yes, I don't like the dover edition and neither does my teacher. Since I will be planning on learning more from the WTC in the future, I will purchase a better edition later. But right now, I have to perform this piece on Saturday and I don't have time to buy a new edition so I am just imitating the articulation Glenn Gould uses for now.

After the competition I will possibly consider purchasing Alfred's edition, and I will look into the other ones you all have mentioned.

-Will

Why bother asking then???? Everyone...buy Gould as he's the expert (not) and replicate what he does ok? THUD...THUD...THUD (sound of my head hitting my desk repeatedly)

So... while Will is articulating his left hand...

Can someone advise which edition of WTC to buy? I have my mom's hallowed yellow copy of the WTC pt.2 which has been like the Holy Grail to me, but I took it recently to a "trial lesson" and hauled it out of the backpack while announcing my aspirations, and the teacher said, Oh, this is *not* a good edition! This Czerny! It makes it even harder to play, and Bach never wrote such things in his work.

Unfortunately I did not ask which *was* a good edition. So a few days ago, I ordered a Dover copy of the WTC which is due to arrive soon. It had no markings so I thought must be better. But yesterday I sight read the C major fugue from another Dover collection and, without any fingering suggestions, it was like fighting with the Tar Baby.

So: I have a bad edition and have just ordered another bad edition, so maybe third time will be a charm. Anyway, I am planning to finish the 2- and 3-part inventions first so it's not a hurry. And, my current teacher does not like Bach, but she is going back to the UK in a few weeks and I will be changing teachers, and will confer more with the new teacher. Okay, then, never mind answering my question. I am just rambling. Again.

But whenever the "right" edition arrives I am going to cut off the yellow mildew-leopard-spotted cover from my mom's 1939 Schirmer copy and paste it on top.

(I don't really know how a clavichord works but my understanding is that like the harpsichord, it involved relatively little dynamic range and uses a plucking rather than a striking mechanism)

The clavichord's strings are struck by a metal tangent, which also sets the length to vibrate (that is, the string isn't fixed at two ends and struck in the middle, but the tangent is actually one end of the length). It's a very expressive instrument, and there is a wide dynamic range, as long as you consider mp to pppp to be "wide".

So, I like the original question. My take when it comes to articulation has always been to consider the original instrument that the piece was written for - usually harpsichord or in a few cases maybe the clavichord (I don't really know how a clavichord works but my understanding is that like the harpsichord, it involved relatively little dynamic range and uses a plucking rather than a striking mechanism). In any event, *usually* the harpsichord in which case, at least for whole, half and quarter notes slurring should be maybe kept to a minimum?

It looks like this topic has come up a few times. Check out:

http://www.pianoworld.com/forum/ubbthrea...ite_id/1#import

http://www.pianoworld.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/1688750/1.html

I think someone mentioned the Tovey earlier, and it is what my teacher recommends as well, however I'm not sure if it is still in print..? Maybe someone on here knows where to order it from.

You could try the Alfred edition. That's what I'm going to look into buying. I haven't heard much about it, but I looked through it once at my piano teacher's place and it seems to have some helpful fingering, articulation and whatnot.

So, I like the original question. My take when it comes to articulation has always been to consider the original instrument that the piece was written for - usually harpsichord or in a few cases maybe the clavichord my understanding is that like the harpsichord, it involved relatively little dynamic range and uses a plucking rather than a striking mechanism). In any event, *usually* the harpsichord in which case, at least for whole, half and quarter notes slurring should be maybe kept to a minimum?

So... while Will is articulating his left hand...

Can someone advise which edition of WTC to buy? I have my mom's hallowed yellow copy of the WTC pt.2 which has been like the Holy Grail to me, but I took it recently to a "trial lesson" and hauled it out of the backpack while announcing my aspirations, and the teacher said, Oh, this is *not* a good edition! This Czerny! It makes it even harder to play, and Bach never wrote such things in his work.

Unfortunately I did not ask which *was* a good edition. So a few days ago, I ordered a Dover copy of the WTC which is due to arrive soon. It had no markings so I thought must be better. But yesterday I sight read the C major fugue from another Dover collection and, without any fingering suggestions, it was like fighting with the Tar Baby.

So: I have a bad edition and have just ordered another bad edition, so maybe third time will be a charm. Anyway, I am planning to finish the 2- and 3-part inventions first so it's not a hurry. And, my current teacher does not like Bach, but she is going back to the UK in a few weeks and I will be changing teachers, and will confer more with the new teacher. Okay, then, never mind answering my question. I am just rambling. Again.

But whenever the "right" edition arrives I am going to cut off the yellow mildew-leopard-spotted cover from my mom's 1939 Schirmer copy and paste it on top.

But right now, I have to perform this piece on Saturday and I don't have time to buy a new edition so I am just imitating the articulation Glenn Gould uses for now.

But the WTC wasn't written for any particular instrument, just for the generic concept of "keyboard". Personally, I think many, maybe most, sound best on the organ.

Hallowed? Schirmer? Send ME your Schirmer Bach and I'll send you a video of what should be done with such hallowed material. If you read above you'll see that I've already advised regarding the Henle and Barenreiter. The Tovey is very good as well, but I'm pretty sure it's out of print. The Alfred (I always forget them for some reason) is also quite excellent and I recommend it highly (one must take the time to actually read the accompanying commentary, however...which is a good thing, but most don't seem to want to bother). I suppose I'm wondering why you're even bothering to ask about edition adivse, since you say you just ordered another bad edition (why would you ordered something you know is bad?...would you specifically order bad food when you're out to dinner?)

I have the ABRSM Edition edited by Richard Jones and commentaries by Tovey. (only have WTC1) I'm no expert on the different editions, but this one seems good to me. It has fingerings that are quite good (they work for me) and it seems like it's fairly well researched and stuff. It gives suggestions for ornamentation and also for tempo and approaches to performance (as written by Tovey), and there's no expression markings or anything on the scores. I would certainly recommend it.

Really? This is so surprising to me that I find it almost to impossible to believe! Is this the concensus out there in keyboardland?

I have the ABRSM Edition edited by Richard Jones and commentaries by Tovey. (only have WTC1) I'm no expert on the different editions, but this one seems good to me. It has fingerings that are quite good (they work for me) and it seems like it's fairly well researched and stuff. It gives suggestions for ornamentation and also for tempo and approaches to performance (as written by Tovey), and there's no expression markings or anything on the scores. I would certainly recommend it.

Really? This is so surprising to me that I find it almost to impossible to believe! Is this the concensus out there in keyboardland?

I can't say that I've ever seen this edition. It's not the original Tovey, which Sir Donald edited himself. It is rather old and probably not available at all any longer. It is marked, from the press:

Two Book
25/- paper covers
35/- cloth boards

Correct me, if I'm mistaken but the marking are those of the shilling, yes?

I have an earlier ABRSM edition (books I and II), "edited by Donald Francis Tovey, Fingered by Harold Samuel" (1924). It looks like a 1970's reprint to me (especially considering the price tag), but 1924 is the only date. I didn't buy it - it came to me in a pile of scores from a fellow teacher who died.

And yes, /- is shillings. Also written as 25s.

Justin,

Which statement do you find hard to believe? that the WTC was composed for any keyboard or that one person thinks it sounds best on the organ. WR did say, "Personally, I think many, maybe most, sound best on the organ," but that obviously is his opinion. FWIW, I agree, many of them do sound best on the organ, I don't necessarily go with "most." I've played the Eb prelude from book 1 on an organ and it worked quite well.

I think I misread: the point is not that WTC was written for organ just that organ is one instrument on which it can be played. Yes?

Are you doing this for Bach Festival?

I think I misread: the point is not that WTC was written for organ just that organ is one instrument on which it can be played. Yes?

We 'ancient ones' remember Bach on the Moog synthesizer.
Ralph

My hand should be better soon, but I think it'll be too sore to perform in the Bach Festival tomorrow.
-Will