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#1841006 - 02/09/12 12:58 AM Bluthner releases digital pianos
PianoZac Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/22/10
Posts: 1424
Don't know how they stack up to the current field of digitals, but at least it's another option.

http://www.bluethnerworld.com/index.php?...179&lang=en

Sound Demos:
http://www.bluethnerworld.com/index.php?...180&lang=en
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#1841024 - 02/09/12 01:41 AM Re: Bluthner releases digital pianos [Re: PianoZac]
CyberGene Online   content
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/04/07
Posts: 717
Loc: Sofia, Bulgaria
This is interesting smile
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Current DP: Kawai ES7
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#1841026 - 02/09/12 01:48 AM Re: Bluthner releases digital pianos [Re: PianoZac]
CyberGene Online   content
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/04/07
Posts: 717
Loc: Sofia, Bulgaria
From the user manual:

Quote:

BLÜTHNER PIANO SOUND
The Blüthner e-Klavier recreates the unique sound of the hand-made, world-renowned Blüthner Model One concert grand piano. All 88 keys of this exceptional instrument have been meticulously recorded and analyzed. While playing on the new Blüthner e-Klavier, the nuances of each note have been faithfully reproduced by new Acoustic Piano Simulation®(APS) Blüthner sound technology.
This unique process accurately recreates the broad dynamic range of the original instrument with a natural sound. The large selection of high-quality sounds are further supported by additional effects, such as Harmonic Damper Modeling, Aliquot
®® Resonance Modeling and reverb, which provide a more realistic sound reproduction.

e-Klavier 1
BLÜTHNER GRAND-TOUCH KEYBOARD
The Grand-Touch Keyboard with Escapement provides a unique action dynamic. The mechanical implementation gives the pianist an excellent feel comparable to a concert grand action.

e-Klavier 2
BLUTHNER WOODEN GRAND-TOUCH KEYBOARD
The wooden Grand-Touch Keyboard provides a unique action dynamic with the enhanced weight and feel of wooden keys. The mechanical implementation gives the pianist an excellent feel comparable to a concert grand action.
*The white keys are made of wood and the black keys are synthetic.
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Current DP: Kawai ES7
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#1841036 - 02/09/12 02:00 AM Re: Bluthner releases digital pianos [Re: PianoZac]
Dr Popper Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/30/09
Posts: 1718
Loc: Hancock Park LA (not again)
That is rather interesting ....
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#1841057 - 02/09/12 03:52 AM Re: Bluthner releases digital pianos [Re: PianoZac]
trigalg693 Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/17/08
Posts: 627
Wonder what they mean by "comparable to a grand". Double escapement?

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#1841062 - 02/09/12 03:59 AM Re: Bluthner releases digital pianos [Re: PianoZac]
maurus Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/21/11
Posts: 796
Could be a bit like the Leica story in photography: Late to digital, niche product, with potential but ultimately not quite competitive. And Leica had an advantage: They reuse part of the older technology (the lenses) that made the company so special. And they have a deal with a huge partner (Panasonic). Perhaps such a partner is in the background here as well?

Why not release a high quality Bluethner sample for Clavia instead (in licence)? Should we make a poll ;-)
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#1841071 - 02/09/12 04:23 AM Re: Bluthner releases digital pianos [Re: maurus]
ando Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/23/10
Posts: 3564
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
Originally Posted By: maurus
Could be a bit like the Leica story in photography: Late to digital, niche product, with potential but ultimately not quite competitive. And Leica had an advantage: They reuse part of the older technology (the lenses) that made the company so special. And they have a deal with a huge partner (Panasonic). Perhaps such a partner is in the background here as well?

Why not release a high quality Bluethner sample for Clavia instead (in licence)? Should we make a poll ;-)


I think we should keep an open mind until some of us have tried them out. Maybe they'll be strong competitors for the big 3. Bluthner certainly has a strong reputation for quality.

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#1841088 - 02/09/12 05:19 AM Re: Bluthner releases digital pianos [Re: PianoZac]
EssBrace Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/01/09
Posts: 2393
Loc: Suffolk, United Kingdom
Well, they certainly have nothing new to offer in terms of the propaganda - we've heard it all before from the established makers with the exception of the aliquot simulation, which is what makes a Bluthner different to other acoustic pianos. I can't help suspecting the actions will be Fatar. Just a hunch.
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#1841118 - 02/09/12 07:49 AM Re: Bluthner releases digital pianos [Re: EssBrace]
CyberGene Online   content
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/04/07
Posts: 717
Loc: Sofia, Bulgaria
Originally Posted By: EssBrace
I can't help suspecting the actions will be Fatar. Just a hunch.


I was gonna say the same. If they have implemented their own digital piano action, it would have been heavily advertised with pictures and explanations. Everything seems like a joke currently and I wouldn't be amazed if the whole piano is some third party development, branded by Bluethner.
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#1841125 - 02/09/12 08:16 AM Re: Bluthner releases digital pianos [Re: EssBrace]
anotherscott Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/20/10
Posts: 3201
Originally Posted By: EssBrace
I can't help suspecting the actions will be Fatar. Just a hunch.

I'm not saying it's impossible, but I think (and hope!) it is unlikely. Unlike Nord, Kurzweil, and others who use Fatar actions, Bluthner is actually largely in the business of manufacturing their own piano actions, like Yamaha and Kawai. So from that perspective, it doesn't really make sense for them to go to an outside vendor rather than adapt some of their existing expertise and manufacturing capability. Especially since, Bluthner being Bluthner, I doubt their goal here is to make something inexpensive. I would hope that at least the top model has their own action. I've only played one Bluthner, but it had possibly the best action I'd played on any piano. (Quite light, btw.)

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#1841129 - 02/09/12 08:25 AM Re: Bluthner releases digital pianos [Re: PianoZac]
Kawai James Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 9088
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
I wonder if they're using a 'real' upright action?

Potentially an interesting product - one to watch at MusikMesse next month, perhaps?

Cheers,
James
x
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#1841130 - 02/09/12 08:28 AM Re: Bluthner releases digital pianos [Re: PianoZac]
Gigantoad Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/02/12
Posts: 336
Keyboard: Blüthner Grand Touch (Wooden) / 4 zones Graded Hammers

Hardly sounds like Fatar.

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#1841131 - 02/09/12 08:28 AM Re: Bluthner releases digital pianos [Re: anotherscott]
mrcultureshock Online   content
Full Member

Registered: 08/22/11
Posts: 82
Loc: Georgia, USA
Very interesting news indeed. I googled for more information and here's what I found:

Information at www.klaviere-angerer.at http://www.klaviere-angerer.at/shop/safedataframe.html?fsrc=http://www.klaviere-angerer.at/shop/digital-pianos/digitalpiano-bluethner-e-klavier-1-schwarzweiss.html

http://www.digitalpianocentre.nl/a-22330...1-digital-piano

https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.191307954283030.49293.191301914283634&type=3



Edited by mrcultureshock (02/09/12 08:30 AM)
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#1841137 - 02/09/12 08:42 AM Re: Bluthner releases digital pianos [Re: PianoZac]
Kawai James Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 9088
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Soundboard speaker...hmm...
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#1841139 - 02/09/12 08:44 AM Re: Bluthner releases digital pianos [Re: PianoZac]
toddy Online   content
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/30/11
Posts: 1674
Loc: Portugal
Very interesting - my favourite piano was a Bluthner. (admittedly this was due to the fact that our church had one I was allowed to use)

At €2395, they are not in the luxury bracket - more like the upper mid-range Yamaha CLPs and Roland HPs.

Forgive my ignorance, but which other serious piano manufacturers have moved into marketing digital pianos under their own name? Apart from Yamaha and Kawai - both of whom were already very well set up in hi-tech electronic music, I cannot think of any.
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#1841144 - 02/09/12 08:54 AM Re: Bluthner releases digital pianos [Re: Kawai James]
Madlock Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/27/09
Posts: 36
Originally Posted By: Kawai James
Soundboard speaker...hmm...

Looks like it has come to stay! \o/


Edited by Madlock (02/09/12 08:55 AM)
Edit Reason: Spacing...

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#1841147 - 02/09/12 08:58 AM Re: Bluthner releases digital pianos [Re: toddy]
anotherscott Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/20/10
Posts: 3201
Originally Posted By: toddy
At €2395, they are not in the luxury bracket - more like the upper mid-range Yamaha CLPs and Roland HPs.

Yes, it's nice to see it's at least reasonable. Though also, that is their lowest priced model (as you point out, priced at the upper-mid Yamaha/Roland range). I wonder what their high end model will go for. Avant territory, I expect, though even that covers a bit of a range...

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#1841155 - 02/09/12 09:21 AM Re: Bluthner releases digital pianos [Re: PianoZac]
voxpops Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/20/07
Posts: 3042
Loc: Oregon
The sound samples are not bad at all. Assuming these are straight from the DP's outputs and have not been sweetened, there is no muddiness in AP chords - even those with strong dissonance, and the upper register has only a hint of "plinkiness". However, it's difficult to tell whether layers have been well blended, and it seems like there's no information available on processing. EPs are good - and sound quite a lot like those in the Numa. Come to think of it, the rather light/crisp AP bass notes are also reminiscent of the original Numa (pre-update). Hmmm...

I'll be interested to find out how well the action connects, but at first glance it seems like a nice, alternative option with a good name behind it.
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#1841161 - 02/09/12 09:47 AM Re: Bluthner releases digital pianos [Re: voxpops]
Dave Ferris Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/12/07
Posts: 1731
Loc: Glendale, Ca.
.
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#1841163 - 02/09/12 09:51 AM Re: Bluthner releases digital pianos [Re: PianoZac]
BrokenChord Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/25/11
Posts: 288
Loc: Michigan
It seems appealing, but I cant get past the cheap look of that website. I think Williams atleast does a better job of making sure the product pages for their piano shaped objects look good.

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#1841166 - 02/09/12 09:52 AM Re: Bluthner releases digital pianos [Re: PianoZac]
MacMacMac Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/24/09
Posts: 3805
Loc: North Carolina
I reached quite the opposite conclusion. I found the sound disappointing. The bass was good ... not muddy. But the rest was not so good. The Clair de Lune was rather lifeless. Notes show little sustain and the piece has no "air".

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#1841170 - 02/09/12 09:56 AM Re: Bluthner releases digital pianos [Re: Dave Ferris]
maurus Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/21/11
Posts: 796
Originally Posted By: Dave Ferris
Just listening to the sound samples, to my ears they don't resemble the "Bluthner sound" at all. [...] That "dreamy "sound isn't the first thing that comes to mind when hearing those samples...


+1
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#1841183 - 02/09/12 10:14 AM Re: Bluthner releases digital pianos [Re: MacMacMac]
dewster Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/07/09
Posts: 4340
Loc: Northern NJ
Originally Posted By: MacMacMac
I reached quite the opposite conclusion. I found the sound disappointing. The bass was good ... not muddy. But the rest was not so good. The Clair de Lune was rather lifeless. Notes show little sustain and the piece has no "air".

I agree. Decays are too short and it needs more sympathetic resonance. The repeated bass notes in "Greensleeves" are annoying. The last lowest AP note in the first demo sounds somewhat unnatural, like it might be stretched. L&R balance seems overly biased to the left.
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#1841235 - 02/09/12 12:09 PM Re: Bluthner releases digital pianos [Re: dewster]
Dave Ferris Offline
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Posts: 1731
Loc: Glendale, Ca.
.
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#1841245 - 02/09/12 12:29 PM Re: Bluthner releases digital pianos [Re: PianoZac]
bennevis Online   content
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/14/10
Posts: 5052
I don't think you could mistake it for a Yamaha sound (for instance) but it still sounds like a typical DP - short decay, lack of resonances and all. Though there's definitely a 'Blüthnerish' quality to the sound, a plumminess that I remember from playing their grands.

Is the future in DPs? grin

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#1841259 - 02/09/12 12:55 PM Re: Bluthner releases digital pianos [Re: PianoZac]
CyberGene Online   content
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/04/07
Posts: 717
Loc: Sofia, Bulgaria
[off-topic]
Dave, if you're a close friend with Billy Childs, tell him I am one of his biggest fans here in Bulgaria smile I've discovered him around 1997 when I heard his album "I've Known Rivers" over a jazz radio and I was immediately hooked to his unique harmonies and complex rhythmical approach! I have all of his solo albums including some extraordinary arrangements he's made for Dianne Reeves. Some examples:

I've Known Rivers - what hooked me to his music smile
Dianne Reeves - In Your Eyes - Peter Gabriel's classic rearranged in an unbelievably good jazz tune by Billy Childs!
Dianne Reeves - Fascinating Rhythm - the famous jazz tune arranged in complex time singatures and rich harmonies.
[/off-topic]
_________________________
http://www.myspace.com/evgenykumanov
Current DP: Kawai ES7
Previous DP-s: Kawai MP6, Kawai CA63, Roland RD-700SX, Roland FP-5, Yamaha P90, Korg SP-200, Casio CDP-100

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#1841287 - 02/09/12 01:47 PM Re: Bluthner releases digital pianos [Re: CyberGene]
Dave Ferris Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/12/07
Posts: 1731
Loc: Glendale, Ca.
.
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#1841307 - 02/09/12 02:24 PM Re: Bluthner releases digital pianos [Re: PianoZac]
Melodialworks Music Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/19/05
Posts: 1309
Loc: Canada
Hey, I know this famous jazz guy named Dave Ferris . . .
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#1841312 - 02/09/12 02:37 PM Re: Bluthner releases digital pianos [Re: Melodialworks Music]
CyberGene Online   content
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/04/07
Posts: 717
Loc: Sofia, Bulgaria
Originally Posted By: Melodialworks Music
Hey, I know this famous jazz guy named Dave Ferris . . .


Me too, me too! smile
_________________________
http://www.myspace.com/evgenykumanov
Current DP: Kawai ES7
Previous DP-s: Kawai MP6, Kawai CA63, Roland RD-700SX, Roland FP-5, Yamaha P90, Korg SP-200, Casio CDP-100

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#1841324 - 02/09/12 03:03 PM Re: Bluthner releases digital pianos [Re: bennevis]
pv88 Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/31/10
Posts: 2625
Originally Posted By: bennevis
Is the future in DPs? grin


@bennevis,

Very good question, as I would say that owning something like the V-Piano (as you and I already know) may be the next best alternative to buying a brand new $100K concert grand. How about this one here below, as you can get a used one now for only a mere $35K?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Steinway-Concert...b8#ht_500wt_898

Probably is not a bad deal at all if the buyer can arrange to meet the seller in person to check it out. And, arrange the moving of the piano. Might be a nice find for someone in the Ann Arbor, MI area.

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