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#1841026 - 02/09/12 01:48 AM
Re: Bluthner releases digital pianos
[Re: PianoZac]
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500 Post Club Member
Registered: 04/04/07
Posts: 649
Loc: Sofia, Bulgaria
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From the user manual:
BLÜTHNER PIANO SOUND
The Blüthner e-Klavier recreates the unique sound of the hand-made, world-renowned Blüthner Model One concert grand piano. All 88 keys of this exceptional instrument have been meticulously recorded and analyzed. While playing on the new Blüthner e-Klavier, the nuances of each note have been faithfully reproduced by new Acoustic Piano Simulation®(APS) Blüthner sound technology.
This unique process accurately recreates the broad dynamic range of the original instrument with a natural sound. The large selection of high-quality sounds are further supported by additional effects, such as Harmonic Damper Modeling, Aliquot
®® Resonance Modeling and reverb, which provide a more realistic sound reproduction.
e-Klavier 1
BLÜTHNER GRAND-TOUCH KEYBOARD
The Grand-Touch Keyboard with Escapement provides a unique action dynamic. The mechanical implementation gives the pianist an excellent feel comparable to a concert grand action.
e-Klavier 2
BLUTHNER WOODEN GRAND-TOUCH KEYBOARD
The wooden Grand-Touch Keyboard provides a unique action dynamic with the enhanced weight and feel of wooden keys. The mechanical implementation gives the pianist an excellent feel comparable to a concert grand action.
*The white keys are made of wood and the black keys are synthetic.
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#1841036 - 02/09/12 02:00 AM
Re: Bluthner releases digital pianos
[Re: PianoZac]
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1000 Post Club Member
Registered: 12/30/09
Posts: 1535
Loc: Whale Beach NSW (home !)
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That is rather interesting ....
_________________________
"I'm still an idiot and I'm still in love" - Blue Sofa - The Plugz 1981 (Tito Larriva)
Disclosure : I am professionally supported by but not beholden to various musical instrument manufactures including Yamaha
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#1841057 - 02/09/12 03:52 AM
Re: Bluthner releases digital pianos
[Re: PianoZac]
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500 Post Club Member
Registered: 08/17/08
Posts: 518
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Wonder what they mean by "comparable to a grand". Double escapement?
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#1841062 - 02/09/12 03:59 AM
Re: Bluthner releases digital pianos
[Re: PianoZac]
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Full Member
Registered: 05/21/11
Posts: 469
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Could be a bit like the Leica story in photography: Late to digital, niche product, with potential but ultimately not quite competitive. And Leica had an advantage: They reuse part of the older technology (the lenses) that made the company so special. And they have a deal with a huge partner (Panasonic). Perhaps such a partner is in the background here as well?
Why not release a high quality Bluethner sample for Clavia instead (in licence)? Should we make a poll ;-)
_________________________
Shigeru Kawai SK-2, etc.
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#1841071 - 02/09/12 04:23 AM
Re: Bluthner releases digital pianos
[Re: maurus]
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2000 Post Club Member
Registered: 11/23/10
Posts: 2671
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
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Could be a bit like the Leica story in photography: Late to digital, niche product, with potential but ultimately not quite competitive. And Leica had an advantage: They reuse part of the older technology (the lenses) that made the company so special. And they have a deal with a huge partner (Panasonic). Perhaps such a partner is in the background here as well?
Why not release a high quality Bluethner sample for Clavia instead (in licence)? Should we make a poll ;-) I think we should keep an open mind until some of us have tried them out. Maybe they'll be strong competitors for the big 3. Bluthner certainly has a strong reputation for quality.
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#1841088 - 02/09/12 05:19 AM
Re: Bluthner releases digital pianos
[Re: PianoZac]
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2000 Post Club Member
Registered: 12/01/09
Posts: 2174
Loc: Suffolk, United Kingdom
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Well, they certainly have nothing new to offer in terms of the propaganda - we've heard it all before from the established makers with the exception of the aliquot simulation, which is what makes a Bluthner different to other acoustic pianos. I can't help suspecting the actions will be Fatar. Just a hunch.
_________________________
Yamaha CP1
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#1841118 - 02/09/12 07:49 AM
Re: Bluthner releases digital pianos
[Re: EssBrace]
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500 Post Club Member
Registered: 04/04/07
Posts: 649
Loc: Sofia, Bulgaria
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I can't help suspecting the actions will be Fatar. Just a hunch. I was gonna say the same. If they have implemented their own digital piano action, it would have been heavily advertised with pictures and explanations. Everything seems like a joke currently and I wouldn't be amazed if the whole piano is some third party development, branded by Bluethner.
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#1841125 - 02/09/12 08:16 AM
Re: Bluthner releases digital pianos
[Re: EssBrace]
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2000 Post Club Member
Registered: 02/20/10
Posts: 2454
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I can't help suspecting the actions will be Fatar. Just a hunch. I'm not saying it's impossible, but I think (and hope!) it is unlikely. Unlike Nord, Kurzweil, and others who use Fatar actions, Bluthner is actually largely in the business of manufacturing their own piano actions, like Yamaha and Kawai. So from that perspective, it doesn't really make sense for them to go to an outside vendor rather than adapt some of their existing expertise and manufacturing capability. Especially since, Bluthner being Bluthner, I doubt their goal here is to make something inexpensive. I would hope that at least the top model has their own action. I've only played one Bluthner, but it had possibly the best action I'd played on any piano. (Quite light, btw.)
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#1841130 - 02/09/12 08:28 AM
Re: Bluthner releases digital pianos
[Re: PianoZac]
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Full Member
Registered: 01/02/12
Posts: 336
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Keyboard: Blüthner Grand Touch (Wooden) / 4 zones Graded Hammers
Hardly sounds like Fatar.
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#1841139 - 02/09/12 08:44 AM
Re: Bluthner releases digital pianos
[Re: PianoZac]
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500 Post Club Member
Registered: 09/30/11
Posts: 589
Loc: Portugal
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Very interesting - my favourite piano was a Bluthner. (admittedly this was due to the fact that our church had one I was allowed to use)
At €2395, they are not in the luxury bracket - more like the upper mid-range Yamaha CLPs and Roland HPs.
Forgive my ignorance, but which other serious piano manufacturers have moved into marketing digital pianos under their own name? Apart from Yamaha and Kawai - both of whom were already very well set up in hi-tech electronic music, I cannot think of any.
_________________________
My piano is Roland HP 302
Other keyboards: Fender Rhodes Suitcase 88 piano (c. 1970), Yamaha SY85 (synth c.1991)
Previously: Korg Polysix, Roland Juno 60, Ensoniq ESQ1
Favourite piano: Blüthner (6'early 20th century)
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#1841144 - 02/09/12 08:54 AM
Re: Bluthner releases digital pianos
[Re: Kawai James]
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Full Member
Registered: 06/27/09
Posts: 36
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Soundboard speaker...hmm... Looks like it has come to stay! \o/
Edited by Madlock (02/09/12 08:55 AM)
Edit Reason: Spacing...
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#1841147 - 02/09/12 08:58 AM
Re: Bluthner releases digital pianos
[Re: toddy]
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2000 Post Club Member
Registered: 02/20/10
Posts: 2454
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At €2395, they are not in the luxury bracket - more like the upper mid-range Yamaha CLPs and Roland HPs. Yes, it's nice to see it's at least reasonable. Though also, that is their lowest priced model (as you point out, priced at the upper-mid Yamaha/Roland range). I wonder what their high end model will go for. Avant territory, I expect, though even that covers a bit of a range...
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#1841155 - 02/09/12 09:21 AM
Re: Bluthner releases digital pianos
[Re: PianoZac]
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2000 Post Club Member
Registered: 03/20/07
Posts: 2351
Loc: Oregon
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The sound samples are not bad at all. Assuming these are straight from the DP's outputs and have not been sweetened, there is no muddiness in AP chords - even those with strong dissonance, and the upper register has only a hint of "plinkiness". However, it's difficult to tell whether layers have been well blended, and it seems like there's no information available on processing. EPs are good - and sound quite a lot like those in the Numa. Come to think of it, the rather light/crisp AP bass notes are also reminiscent of the original Numa (pre-update). Hmmm...
I'll be interested to find out how well the action connects, but at first glance it seems like a nice, alternative option with a good name behind it.
_________________________
Nord Piano | Korg SV-1 | Roland RD-64 & VR-09 | Yamaha P-105
Numa Organ | Alesis Micron | Plugiator | VB3 | Pianoteq
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#1841161 - 02/09/12 09:47 AM
Re: Bluthner releases digital pianos
[Re: voxpops]
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1000 Post Club Member
Registered: 03/12/07
Posts: 1570
Loc: Glendale, Ca.
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#1841163 - 02/09/12 09:51 AM
Re: Bluthner releases digital pianos
[Re: PianoZac]
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Full Member
Registered: 12/25/11
Posts: 288
Loc: Michigan
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It seems appealing, but I cant get past the cheap look of that website. I think Williams atleast does a better job of making sure the product pages for their piano shaped objects look good.
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#1841166 - 02/09/12 09:52 AM
Re: Bluthner releases digital pianos
[Re: PianoZac]
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3000 Post Club Member
Registered: 09/24/09
Posts: 3119
Loc: North Carolina
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I reached quite the opposite conclusion. I found the sound disappointing. The bass was good ... not muddy. But the rest was not so good. The Clair de Lune was rather lifeless. Notes show little sustain and the piece has no "air".
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#1841170 - 02/09/12 09:56 AM
Re: Bluthner releases digital pianos
[Re: Dave Ferris]
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Full Member
Registered: 05/21/11
Posts: 469
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Just listening to the sound samples, to my ears they don't resemble the "Bluthner sound" at all. [...] That "dreamy "sound isn't the first thing that comes to mind when hearing those samples... +1
_________________________
Shigeru Kawai SK-2, etc.
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#1841183 - 02/09/12 10:14 AM
Re: Bluthner releases digital pianos
[Re: MacMacMac]
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3000 Post Club Member
Registered: 12/07/09
Posts: 3964
Loc: Northern NJ
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I reached quite the opposite conclusion. I found the sound disappointing. The bass was good ... not muddy. But the rest was not so good. The Clair de Lune was rather lifeless. Notes show little sustain and the piece has no "air". I agree. Decays are too short and it needs more sympathetic resonance. The repeated bass notes in "Greensleeves" are annoying. The last lowest AP note in the first demo sounds somewhat unnatural, like it might be stretched. L&R balance seems overly biased to the left.
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#1841235 - 02/09/12 12:09 PM
Re: Bluthner releases digital pianos
[Re: dewster]
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1000 Post Club Member
Registered: 03/12/07
Posts: 1570
Loc: Glendale, Ca.
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#1841245 - 02/09/12 12:29 PM
Re: Bluthner releases digital pianos
[Re: PianoZac]
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2000 Post Club Member
Registered: 10/14/10
Posts: 2759
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I don't think you could mistake it for a Yamaha sound (for instance) but it still sounds like a typical DP - short decay, lack of resonances and all. Though there's definitely a 'Blüthnerish' quality to the sound, a plumminess that I remember from playing their grands. Is the future in DPs? 
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#1841259 - 02/09/12 12:55 PM
Re: Bluthner releases digital pianos
[Re: PianoZac]
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500 Post Club Member
Registered: 04/04/07
Posts: 649
Loc: Sofia, Bulgaria
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[off-topic] Dave, if you're a close friend with Billy Childs, tell him I am one of his biggest fans here in Bulgaria  I've discovered him around 1997 when I heard his album "I've Known Rivers" over a jazz radio and I was immediately hooked to his unique harmonies and complex rhythmical approach! I have all of his solo albums including some extraordinary arrangements he's made for Dianne Reeves. Some examples: I've Known Rivers - what hooked me to his music Dianne Reeves - In Your Eyes - Peter Gabriel's classic rearranged in an unbelievably good jazz tune by Billy Childs! Dianne Reeves - Fascinating Rhythm - the famous jazz tune arranged in complex time singatures and rich harmonies. [/off-topic]
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#1841287 - 02/09/12 01:47 PM
Re: Bluthner releases digital pianos
[Re: CyberGene]
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1000 Post Club Member
Registered: 03/12/07
Posts: 1570
Loc: Glendale, Ca.
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#1841307 - 02/09/12 02:24 PM
Re: Bluthner releases digital pianos
[Re: PianoZac]
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1000 Post Club Member
Registered: 07/19/05
Posts: 1305
Loc: Canada
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Hey, I know this famous jazz guy named Dave Ferris . . .
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#1841312 - 02/09/12 02:37 PM
Re: Bluthner releases digital pianos
[Re: Melodialworks Music]
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500 Post Club Member
Registered: 04/04/07
Posts: 649
Loc: Sofia, Bulgaria
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Hey, I know this famous jazz guy named Dave Ferris . . . Me too, me too!
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#1841324 - 02/09/12 03:03 PM
Re: Bluthner releases digital pianos
[Re: bennevis]
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1000 Post Club Member
Registered: 08/31/10
Posts: 1630
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Is the future in DPs? @bennevis, Very good question, as I would say that owning something like the V-Piano (as you and I already know) may be the next best alternative to buying a brand new $100K concert grand. How about this one here below, as you can get a used one now for only a mere $35K? http://www.ebay.com/itm/Steinway-Concert...b8#ht_500wt_898Probably is not a bad deal at all if the buyer can arrange to meet the seller in person to check it out. And, arrange the moving of the piano. Might be a nice find for someone in the Ann Arbor, MI area.
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