I am a guitar player of over 30 years venturing into my first piano purchase. I am leaning towards a Kawai K8 at the moment.
I have gone to several dealers of different levels and I am trying to figure out the best value for a properly prepared piano. A lot of dealers say "Kawais are so good when they hit the floor you just have to inspect them and tune them and they are pretty much good."

At a mom and pop store the salesman said they just uncrate it, tune it, and off to delivery it goes. A mid-level dealer who employs a full time in house tech stated that they inspect it, adjust it as necessary, and tune it. A third high level location stated they have a detailed "prep" process valued at approx $1500-$2000. The third location had the K8 on site and it was fantastic. All three dealers were gentlemen and a pleasure to deal with.

As with each "level" the Kawai K8 piano price climbed up in $1000.00 increments. The last hard price was literally $3000 more then mom and pop. What would you do? What is the standard prep these pianos get? Should I take the bottom price and have a certfied Kawai piano tech come to my house to "Set Up"? Should I go with the mid-level guy with an in house tech? Mid-level store states they will give 100% back if I upgrade within 3 years to a higher piano as well.

I am now realizing there is a great value in the piano prep proces as part of the overall deal. I value it.Please help me!

Rafterman,

I think the answer will be somewhere in between the 3 examples you gave.

I do not believe in the scenario where simply uncrating/tuning/delivery suffices, even not with Yamahas who most agree come the best prepped ex-factory. Over the past months I saw a few issues mentionend with newly bought Kawai uprights, issues that all could have been prevented if the dealer were to prep the piano adequately.

The extreme example of the 'top dealer' valuing his prep work as worth $1500 - $ 2000 seems rediculous to me; this would relate to some 30 hrs of labour. And even if the dealer 'would' spend that much time prepping (regulation/voicing/tuning) the piano pre-delivery I would not find this to be a good idea as when a piano is new, not all can/should be done at once: bringing a piano to it's full potential is a step by step process that should progress along the subsequent service interventions during the 2 years that follow the delivery.

Do not know what you mean by 'have a certified Kawai piano tech come to my home'. Also make sure you understand well what the mid-level dealer exactly means with '100% buy back trade-up warranty'.

As a conclusion I would go with a dealer that provides the necessary pre-delevery prep service as the mid-level dealer, rely on him for any warranty issues that might occur during the initial period post-delivery, make use of his services (provided he is good) afterwards unless you are sure to have a competent independant technician to take ove.

schwammerl.

If you're picky about pianos, it's stupid to make a deal on a piano you haven't played in person.

Extensive prep has value. Most shoppers--particularly inexperienced ones-- ignore this, looking only for the lowest price.

In my recent purchase, I bought from a dealer that does some, but not a lot of prep. Finding an instrument I really liked, I had them spend a few more hours with it to make adjustments I requested prior to sale.

Well only one dealer actually had this piano in stock. I wouldn't take anything until it hits the floor of the dealer and I have played it. I know everyone says bring a tech to inspect a used piano but I think it's getting to the point where you should bring a tech to inspect a new piano to see if the dealer has done the proper prep work.

Ideally, you also want a dealer who's been in business a good number of years in that location . Regarding any future issues, you want to be able to call your dealer for help.

So buying a piano now is like buying a new house......instead of bringing your attorney......you bring your piano tech to make sure they did proper prep work. So aggravating for a new buyer. I just sense that these dealers don't want to do the minimum prep work since you are not buying a $30,000 to $150,000 piano. I would pay for the prep work if I knew what I was really getting on an itemized list. I looked at other threads were people have just had their PGT tech do the set up at their residence. It seems like you can't win.

I would get the cheapest one and pay for your own experienced tech to set up the piano after delivery and a bit of playing. If there's a defect, it's under warranty.

Take care,

Steve

You can generally tell how well a piano's been set up if you just spend some time playing it in the store (assuming you play well). No need for a tech inspection on a new instrument (well, most of 'em, anyway).

I have seen dealers do no/minimal prep on $80,000 pianos, and others who talk a good "line" about extensive prep, but don't actually do the hours upon hours of work they claim.

Generally, the proof is in the performance of the instrument. You're overanalyzing things now...

+1

Just for fun, tell the $1500-2000 prep dealer that you will take the piano but you want to take several days off from work to watch the prep being done.

Sadly and funny at the same time.....I have that kind of time to do that from an injury......BUT......I would 100% do that!

I am going to tell the mid-level place I want to do that and see what they say.

A technician would not appreciate being watched for hours while he works. The best stores will have a prep check off sheet. As each item is checked, it's marked. The completed sheet stays in the file on that piano. Each piano has a file, by the way. Ask to see the prep/inspection sheet of some pianos recently sold.

Out of a dozen stores I've worked for over 30 years, only three have used a check list.

Good prep is documented on a check list. A prep check list means the store owner cares.

I'm getting the sense there isn't a lot of "care" out here on the East coast unless you pay the "cash" This is by far the most annoying detail of buying a new piano. A professional guitar player could pick up an instrument and in 30 seconds tell you how good the "set up" is and not let a store send you out the door with an improperly intonated instrument.

Pianos....unless you are an accomplished player.....same difference. I would have thought for the instrument cost vs. set up dealer expense this would be a standard thing. It's ashame there is not a regulated itemized set up required by the manufacture for the dealers to follow. "Check List"....oh yeah sure in NY/NJ area!

I am somewhat skeptical of placing a $2000 value on a new Kawai upright. On a new piano, the cost of prep should be exclusively on labor, so even if labor costed the dealer $100/hour (and I'd be surprised if they paid someone much more than half of that), you'd be looking at 20 hours of labor. On a grand? Sure. On an upright? I just don't see it.

My sentiments exactly. I think it is starting to make sense to get the piano for the best price....and then get a reputable PGT tech to do the wotk at my place....even if they have to come back a few times to perfect it. Then at least I know what work was done literally in my own house!

And I'd wait a few months or even a year till the piano settles in before doing a regulation on the action. Most Kawai pianos come fairly well regulated out of the box, so break it in a bit.

It wouldn't hurt to look at it sometime around the first tuning. Piano parts are usually made out of organic materials, which are always changing, so there is no point in waiting a set amount of time. Making adjustments as needed will keep the overall performance of the piano better, and spread out the cost over time by avoiding the need for extensive service at one time.

Which parts? Action parts? Because Kawai action parts are not made from wood (organic material means containing carbon (rough definition), but plastic and carbon fibre contain carbon), but the composite material is very much stable and the parts themselves don't change very much at all. But since moving during delivery, etc, the action parts may have moved and gone slightly out of regulation. But only probably a small bit.


Probably giving the action a little tweaking at every tuning will do. But it will eventually need a extensive service unconditionally, down the track.

I said usually, not always. Regardless, all actions have some degree of felt, which does change with humidity.



Yes this is true, but regular maintenance will diminish this need.

Yes, you did say usually. Just pointing out that the action in question is a Kawai MIII action. And yes, felt does indeed change with the humidity, nonetheless.


Or at least extend the time until it eventually needs the full job done.

No worries, Beethoven! S'all good.

The M III Kawai action still uses organic materials in the most critical parts of the mechanism. The hammer shanks are made of wood and the hammer heads themselves are not impervious to the changes in humidity and temperatures. Kawai, in their wisdom, have retained wooden and other organic parts which they believe are best not replaced by synthetic compounds.

Of course, Kawai is not alone in these innovations and I believe that Steingraeber and Sons are also using cutting edge technology with their soundboards which are the very heart of the instrument.

Regards,

Robert.