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#1841111 - 02/09/12 07:28 AM Re: Digital VS "real" [Re: Krummholz]
Rupak Bhattacharya Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/31/11
Posts: 174
Loc: West Bengal, India
Originally Posted By: Krummholz
Thank you, Rostosky for taking the time to make a thorough and convincing analysis in support of Mr. Bhattacharya’s performance.

Thank you a lot for appreciating Rostosky's hard work for such a mere insignificant work of mine. Surely he had gone through a lot more hardships for making this video than me. I don't know how to meet my debt to him. He deserves lot more appreciations than me.

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#1841439 - 02/09/12 06:16 PM Re: Digital VS "real" [Re: ando]
Dave Horne Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/07/04
Posts: 5282
Loc: Vught, The Netherlands
Originally Posted By: ando
I'm not buying it as a real performance. How is he doing the pedaling? How can he get any dynamics with a keyboard that is either on or off and can't sense velocity? I think it's a con.


I tend to agree.

On a larger scale, members of our species believe the most incredible things ... and without proof.
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#1841450 - 02/09/12 06:28 PM Re: Digital VS "real" [Re: Rostosky]
Dave Horne Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/07/04
Posts: 5282
Loc: Vught, The Netherlands
If this is 'real', let's see a video with greater resolution.

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. smile
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#1841457 - 02/09/12 06:32 PM Re: Digital VS "real" [Re: Rostosky]
daviel Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/14/07
Posts: 933
Loc: Waxahachie, Texas
Recorded at "Area 51"
_________________________
"She loves to limbo, that much is clear. She's got the right dynamic for the New Frontier"
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David Loving, Waxahachie, Texas

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#1841469 - 02/09/12 06:44 PM Re: Digital VS "real" [Re: Dave Horne]
polyphasicpianist Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/21/11
Posts: 1238
Originally Posted By: Dave Horne
Originally Posted By: ando
I'm not buying it as a real performance. How is he doing the pedaling? How can he get any dynamics with a keyboard that is either on or off and can't sense velocity? I think it's a con.


I tend to agree.

On a larger scale, members of our species believe the most incredible things ... and without proof.


Did you see Rostosky's video? The velocity of the midi was not altered, meaning the subtle rhythm shifts (which he would of had to learn to mime exceptionally well, if he was faking the whole thing) would of had to have been altered on a note by note basis, thus making this one of the most elaborate and pointless internet hoaxes ever produced.

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#1841476 - 02/09/12 06:52 PM Re: Digital VS "real" [Re: polyphasicpianist]
Dave Horne Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/07/04
Posts: 5282
Loc: Vught, The Netherlands
Originally Posted By: polyphasicpianist
Originally Posted By: Dave Horne
Originally Posted By: ando
I'm not buying it as a real performance. How is he doing the pedaling? How can he get any dynamics with a keyboard that is either on or off and can't sense velocity? I think it's a con.


I tend to agree.

On a larger scale, members of our species believe the most incredible things ... and without proof.


Did you see Rostosky's video? The velocity of the midi was not altered, meaning the subtle rhythm shifts (which he would of had to learn to mime exceptionally well, if he was faking the whole thing) would of had to have been altered on a note by note basis, thus making this one of the most elaborate and pointless internet hoaxes ever produced.


We can go back and forth, but it would save a lot of f****** time if there were a video of reasonably high resolution.

I personally know people who believe that there is life after death without any proof. I personally know people who believe that virgins can give birth. These are intelligent people who believe incredible things without proof. Why should the bar be set so low for musicians?

Asking for a higher quality video is not asking too much.

Anyone remember the Joyce Hatto recordings? smile
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#1841480 - 02/09/12 06:55 PM Re: Digital VS "real" [Re: Dave Horne]
Damon Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/22/06
Posts: 6248
Loc: St. Louis area
Originally Posted By: Dave Horne

I personally know people who believe that there is life after death without any proof. I personally know people who believe that virgins can give birth.


We already knew you were attacking religion with your first post. Everybody gets it. You're an atheist. Why not put it in your tagline so you don't have to make a point of bringing it up all the time?
_________________________
It's been scientifically proven that Horowitz sucks.

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#1841484 - 02/09/12 07:01 PM Re: Digital VS "real" [Re: Damon]
Dave Horne Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/07/04
Posts: 5282
Loc: Vught, The Netherlands
Originally Posted By: Damon
Originally Posted By: Dave Horne

I personally know people who believe that there is life after death without any proof. I personally know people who believe that virgins can give birth.


We already knew you were attacking religion with your first post. Everybody gets it. You're an atheist. Why not put it in your tagline so you don't have to make a point of bringing it up all the time?


I was attacking those with silly superstitious beliefs but mainly those without critical thinking faculties. Should I also include those who worship flags as well? smile

Why not put it in your tagline so you don't have to make a point of bringing it up all the time?

All the time? Really? Amazing! Could you provide a link?
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#1841486 - 02/09/12 07:06 PM Re: Digital VS "real" [Re: Dave Horne]
Damon Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/22/06
Posts: 6248
Loc: St. Louis area
Originally Posted By: Dave Horne
Originally Posted By: Damon
Originally Posted By: Dave Horne

I personally know people who believe that there is life after death without any proof. I personally know people who believe that virgins can give birth.


We already knew you were attacking religion with your first post. Everybody gets it. You're an atheist. Why not put it in your tagline so you don't have to make a point of bringing it up all the time?


I was attacking those with silly superstitious beliefs but mainly those without critical thinking faculties. Should I also include those who worship flags as well? smile


Obviously you shouldn't be attacking at all, unprovoked as it is, and why you would add yourself to the list is beyond me. wink
_________________________
It's been scientifically proven that Horowitz sucks.

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#1841491 - 02/09/12 07:14 PM Re: Digital VS "real" [Re: Damon]
Dave Horne Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/07/04
Posts: 5282
Loc: Vught, The Netherlands
Originally Posted By: Damon
Originally Posted By: Dave Horne
Originally Posted By: Damon
Originally Posted By: Dave Horne

I personally know people who believe that there is life after death without any proof. I personally know people who believe that virgins can give birth.


We already knew you were attacking religion with your first post. Everybody gets it. You're an atheist. Why not put it in your tagline so you don't have to make a point of bringing it up all the time?


I was attacking those with silly superstitious beliefs but mainly those without critical thinking faculties. Should I also include those who worship flags as well? smile


Obviously you shouldn't be attacking at all, unprovoked as it is, and why you would add yourself to the list is beyond me. wink


If the video is genuine, let's see a slightly higher resolution video.

This isn't a matter of faith, Damon, proof in the form of 21st century technology isn't asking too much.
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#1841493 - 02/09/12 07:17 PM Re: Digital VS "real" [Re: Rostosky]
cefinow Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/27/10
Posts: 381
Loc: Western NC (US)
I almost laughed out loud when I first saw the video, thought Faaaake... then I found this musical computer keyboard clip on youtube. This guy is explaining the program he developed, and showing how the keyboard works, how to change keys, etc. It's from 2007 and there are better sounding samples by now, I'm sure. But the way his hands move on the keyboard, and the slight delay between pressing the key and the sound, seem very similar to what Rupak posted.

Profanity warning-- to skip the general idiocy and bad language, go straight to 1:10 in the clip, where he starts explaining seriously. Like some forum members here he manages to work the f-word incongruously into the conversation, but uses the ph-word later-- Phrygian! It actually seems simpler to use than a piano-keyboard, and although I was persuaded it was real, at the same time was less impressed by the "virtuosity" required to use it. (I still think Rupak has a great sense of music, though)

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#1841498 - 02/09/12 07:23 PM Re: Digital VS "real" [Re: Dave Horne]
polyphasicpianist Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/21/11
Posts: 1238
Originally Posted By: Dave Horne

Asking for a higher quality video is not asking too much.


Unless your a kid who who is being asked to fork out extra cash to purchase a high definition webcam just to satisfy some harcore skeptics on an internet forum.

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#1841499 - 02/09/12 07:25 PM Re: Digital VS "real" [Re: cefinow]
Dave Horne Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/07/04
Posts: 5282
Loc: Vught, The Netherlands
Originally Posted By: cefinow
I almost laughed out loud when I first saw the video, thought Faaaake... then I found this musical computer keyboard clip on youtube. This guy is explaining the program he developed, and showing how the keyboard works, how to change keys, etc. It's from 2007 and there are better sounding samples by now, I'm sure. But the way his hands move on the keyboard, and the slight delay between pressing the key and the sound, seem very similar to what Rupak posted.

Profanity warning-- to skip the general idiocy and bad language, go straight to 1:10 in the clip, where he starts explaining seriously. Like some forum members here he manages to work the f-word incongruously into the conversation, but uses the ph-word later-- Phrygian! It actually seems simpler to use than a piano-keyboard, and although I was persuaded it was real, at the same time was less impressed by the "virtuosity" required to use it. (I still think Rupak has a great sense of music, though)


I've seen the light. Glory Halleluiah!
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AvantGrand N3, CP5

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#1841502 - 02/09/12 07:28 PM Re: Digital VS "real" [Re: Dave Horne]
Damon Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/22/06
Posts: 6248
Loc: St. Louis area
Originally Posted By: Dave Horne
Originally Posted By: Damon
Originally Posted By: Dave Horne
Originally Posted By: Damon
Originally Posted By: Dave Horne

I personally know people who believe that there is life after death without any proof. I personally know people who believe that virgins can give birth.


We already knew you were attacking religion with your first post. Everybody gets it. You're an atheist. Why not put it in your tagline so you don't have to make a point of bringing it up all the time?


I was attacking those with silly superstitious beliefs but mainly those without critical thinking faculties. Should I also include those who worship flags as well? smile


Obviously you shouldn't be attacking at all, unprovoked as it is, and why you would add yourself to the list is beyond me. wink


If the video is genuine, let's see a slightly higher resolution video.

This isn't a matter of faith, Damon, proof in the form of 21st century technology isn't asking too much.



Why don't you look at the video provided? I'm able to discern a few notes already and could probably provide the key-map myself with just this video. You act like this is a monumental achievement, like the birth of a god or something. laugh
_________________________
It's been scientifically proven that Horowitz sucks.

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#1841503 - 02/09/12 07:29 PM Re: Digital VS "real" [Re: polyphasicpianist]
Dave Horne Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/07/04
Posts: 5282
Loc: Vught, The Netherlands
Originally Posted By: polyphasicpianist
Originally Posted By: Dave Horne

Asking for a higher quality video is not asking too much.


Unless your a kid who who is being ask to fork out extra cash to purchase a high definition webcam just to satisfy some harcore skeptics on an internet forum.


What's the difference between a skeptic and a hard core skeptic?

Is no one familiar with the Joyce Hatto story? A lot of people were fooled.

I'm just reserving judgment until I see more proof. The bar of proof is set so low that anyone who questions anything is labeled hardcore these days.
_________________________
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AvantGrand N3, CP5

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#1841509 - 02/09/12 07:34 PM Re: Digital VS "real" [Re: Dave Horne]
polyphasicpianist Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/21/11
Posts: 1238
Originally Posted By: Dave Horne
What's the difference between a skeptic and a hard core skeptic?


The difference is that a plain skeptic understands that they don't need to push a trivial issue to its metaphysical limits.

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#1841511 - 02/09/12 07:35 PM Re: Digital VS "real" [Re: Rostosky]
Dave Horne Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/07/04
Posts: 5282
Loc: Vught, The Netherlands
Metaphysical ... funny!
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#1841568 - 02/09/12 11:07 PM Re: Digital VS "real" [Re: Dave Horne]
Horowitzian Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/18/08
Posts: 8453
Originally Posted By: Dave Horne
Originally Posted By: polyphasicpianist
Originally Posted By: Dave Horne

Asking for a higher quality video is not asking too much.


Unless your a kid who who is being ask to fork out extra cash to purchase a high definition webcam just to satisfy some harcore skeptics on an internet forum.


What's the difference between a skeptic and a hard core skeptic?

Is no one familiar with the Joyce Hatto story? A lot of people were fooled.

I'm just reserving judgment until I see more proof. The bar of proof is set so low that anyone who questions anything is labeled hardcore these days.


Pretty sure the Hatto matter has been hashed, rehashed, and hashed again. Try the search function. laugh laugh laugh

Originally Posted By: Dave Horne
[...]

I personally know people who believe that there is life after death without any proof. I personally know people who believe that virgins can give birth. These are intelligent people who believe incredible things without proof. [...]


I do wonder about what incredible things Mr. Horne believes without 'proof'. Everyone has a certain amount of faith, be it God, money, women, weed, etc.
_________________________
Close only counts in horseshoes, hand grenades, and nuclear weapons.

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#1841708 - 02/10/12 06:04 AM Re: Digital VS "real" [Re: Rostosky]
Dave Horne Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/07/04
Posts: 5282
Loc: Vught, The Netherlands
Faith, by definition, is the belief in something for which there is no proof.

Was it W.C. Fields who said, Everyone have to believe in something, I believe I'll have another beer. smile
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#1841712 - 02/10/12 06:16 AM Re: Digital VS "real" [Re: Rostosky]
Rostosky Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/30/11
Posts: 3339
Loc: Lost in cyberspace.in the UK.
Is it too much to ask to see a higher resolution video?
Yes Mr. Horn, in this case it is, firstly Rupak is a struggling Physics Phd student in Bangladesh India.

He doesnt even have a "real" midi keyboard.

Secondly, he didnt think he would have to scientifically "prove" what he has played to anyone.

And why should he? Members post themselves playing here, sometimes on $10,000+ steinways, using a number of mics, and then post an MP3 or wav of that in the "ether"

Who says " we want to see you playing to believe its you?"

We take it on trust its not their friend or uncle albert or whatever.

But , I made a video reviewing the evidence, if you dont understand it just say so...
I will post it again in case you wish to argue any of the points raised in the evidence.

However, the latest development in this case is as follows:


David campos, grew up in his fathers recording studio, as a child he was allways at the feet of sound engineers and music producers.

As he grew up he built a few recording studios himself, what he doesnt know about the production of music could be written on a postage stamp.

He has produced music for films, adverts and bands.

I sent him the link to Rupaks mendelssohn on computer keyboard.

He has no doubts whatsoever..and regards it as totally genuine.

And is more than prepared to put his money where his mouth is on this.....

He offered to provide Rupak with a Midi keyboard.

Kudos David Campos.

However, Rupak declined the Gift, citing that he was worried that he may not be able to put enough time into learning to play just at the moment as his Phd is all consuming timewise.

I think Rupak felt that he would feel personal pressure to learn to play, almost like he would be so endebted to David, he would feel obliged..

I tried to explain that a gift is a gift, and that it would not be a conditional gift, or come with strings attached.(no pun)

Rupak also said that he was busy saving up for a keyboard and hopes to aquire one in the near future for himself.

Kudos, Rupak, not many folk in this world decline something for nothing, and I find this admirable.

In my personal opinion, Rupak found a way to say "hey guys, I know this wont sound like perfectly played mendelssohn, but I really love this piece of music, and found a way to play it as best I could on what I could"

And was put on trial for it...

Again, I say : Shame on you.

_________________________


Rise like lions after slumber,in unvanquishable number. Shake your chains to earth like dew
which in sleep has fallen on you. Ye are many,they are few. Shelley

Founder and creator ofRostoskys 13th crystal skull project

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#1841790 - 02/10/12 09:52 AM Re: Digital VS "real" [Re: Rostosky]
Kreisler Offline



Registered: 11/27/02
Posts: 13818
Loc: Iowa City, IA
FWIW, I have no trouble believing the video. People arguing pedal and velocity just aren't listening closely enough. My first take on the video was confirmed by Rupak's explanation of how the system works.

The only thing about this thread I don't understand is why people get so bent out of shape about this kind of thing.
_________________________
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www.youtube.com/user/UIPianoPed

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#1841865 - 02/10/12 12:19 PM Re: Digital VS "real" [Re: Rostosky]
Mark_C Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 19871
Loc: New York
On the PC Member Recordings thread, I didn't have any trouble believing it, mainly because I saw who were some of the people who had replied and weren't doubting it; otherwise I probably would have regarded it as impossible. Maybe that wasn't a great reason to accept it, but I thought it was, and looks like that was right.

We can be both too accepting and too skeptical of stuff on the internet, and sometimes we can't be sure which is which. What's the right amount? We'll never know. smile

Assuming that Rupak's Mendelssohn was for real, I'm sorry to see that he was subjected to some of what was said on here. But it happens. And anyway the skepticism was part of what led to our finding out more about how it was done.
_________________________
"Everything I say is my opinion, including the facts." :-)

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#1841902 - 02/10/12 01:22 PM Re: Digital VS "real" [Re: Rostosky]
ChopinAddict Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/29/09
Posts: 6160
Loc: Land of the never-ending music
Anyway, Rupak - you should regard it as a compliment that some people doubted the authenticity of your recording. It means it is something pretty unusual. thumb
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Music is my best friend.


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#1848281 - 02/20/12 03:27 AM Re: Digital VS "real" [Re: Rostosky]
Maxtor Offline

Bronze Supporter until Jan 01 2013


Registered: 08/14/11
Posts: 182
I first played "piano" using some software like this; it may have been the exact same software, but I make no promises on that.

The general idea behind the software that I had was that the numbers (sortof intermitently) are black keys, then the row [TAB]QWERTYUIO... are white keys, then the row ASDFG... are black keys, and ZXCVB... are white keys. Not each letter/number corresponds to a key; some of them are unresponsive and represent the blank spaces on the piano where there are not black keys (if the piano keys were a perfect white/black/white/black... repetition, then each key on the computer keyboard could link to a piano key easily).

The first chord I taught myself was CBM, if I remember correctly.


A full range of about three octaves can be achieved using this. The function keys (above the numbers) can add another octave and a half, but only of either white or black keys. This setup is a bit disorientating at first, but you can get used to it. The fingering of each hand can be almost identical, if you start in the correct place and have the right song. It only gets tricky when an octave extends from one set of keyboard rows and down onto the next set, such as a chord of P]Z

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#1848499 - 02/20/12 02:49 PM Re: Digital VS "real" [Re: Dave Horne]
Okiikahuna Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/26/11
Posts: 111
Originally Posted By: Dave Horne

Was it W.C. Fields who said, Everyone have to believe in something, I believe I'll have another beer. smile


What proof do you have that WC Fields ever said such a thing?

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#1848526 - 02/20/12 03:19 PM Re: Digital VS "real" [Re: Okiikahuna]
Rostosky Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/30/11
Posts: 3339
Loc: Lost in cyberspace.in the UK.
Originally Posted By: Okiikahuna
Originally Posted By: Dave Horne

Was it W.C. Fields who said, Everyone have to believe in something, I believe I'll have another beer. smile


What proof do you have that WC Fields ever said such a thing?


I sense buns.
_________________________


Rise like lions after slumber,in unvanquishable number. Shake your chains to earth like dew
which in sleep has fallen on you. Ye are many,they are few. Shelley

Founder and creator ofRostoskys 13th crystal skull project

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#1972331 - 10/12/12 02:15 PM Re: Digital VS "real" [Re: Rostosky]
MusicaMusique Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/27/12
Posts: 51
Originally Posted By: Rostosky
After all the controversy and arguments, I came across this in "members recordings" and it nearly broke my heart....

Sometimes, just sometimes, something moves me big time.
This is one of those times,
This dude has just played mendelssohn, on his laptop keyboard..
Literally.

with programs like abelton, you can "play" the actual keyboard of your laptop as a midi controller if you dont have a keyboard.

However, this is not the easyest thing in the world to do, and most folk just use it to write a few midi notes or chords..

This takes it to a whole new level, and moves me that anyone can defeat the adversity of not having even a cheap casio with piano keys to play....

Someone give this dude your old unused keyboard....

http://www.pianoworld.com/forum/ubbthrea...tml#Post1836173




You have a good heart

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#1972405 - 10/12/12 05:57 PM Re: Digital VS "real" [Re: Rostosky]
Rostosky Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/30/11
Posts: 3339
Loc: Lost in cyberspace.in the UK.
Thats sweet, thanks, I guess some one has to no matter how much it hurts.
_________________________


Rise like lions after slumber,in unvanquishable number. Shake your chains to earth like dew
which in sleep has fallen on you. Ye are many,they are few. Shelley

Founder and creator ofRostoskys 13th crystal skull project

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