I am a lapsed player looking to get a bit more serious again after purchasing a grand.

I am due to have an introductory lesson with a teacher next week. She was the most qualified teacher in the listings I read, was the only one with testimonials and has a perfect exam pass rate. I liked the cut of her jib when I spoke to her on the phone - friendly but no-nonsense at the same time. She would be travelling to my home to teach.

Only thing is, she charges twice what appears to be the going rate (£60 an hour as opposed to £30/35). My wife is not impressed with the price given we need to tighten our belts for a couple of months.

She may well be the best teacher in the vicinity, but how do I evaluate that? Should I come straight out and ask her (in the form of a friendly enquiry rather than a challenge) how she merits her price, perhaps after/just before our first lesson? If I decide she is worthwhile should I consider having a lesson every two weeks instead?

Just wondering what people on here would do. I guess have lessons with a couple of other teachers and then make a decision? Seems awkward though.

Well, if she is the most qualified teacher in the listings and she has testimonials and a perfect exam pass rate...why bother to ask her why she charges what she does? It is obvious. Shes no nonsense, so I'd bet she would just keep it moving to the next person if you don't want to pay her rate.

You could go for a cheaper teacher.

I think its kind of rude to ask how she merits her price.

Hmm, a slightly different opinion here. If you take a very crude measurement of success with a teacher, your improvement in playing (and there are obviously other measurements too), the double price teacher should be able to get you playing better twice as quickly. And I really doubt they can.

I would try the other teachers too. Only then will you know if the markup is worth it.

I know we can't directly compare teacher prices but my teacher is $59 / hour in a pretty expensive area of the US. That's about 37 pounds ... she's a wonderful teacher.

Andy, I don't think your linear analogy works in this case...

Lets say we have two teachers:

teacher A ($50)
and
teacher B ($100)


Let's just pick random numbers to illustrate.
Your potential progress for one year:

With Teacher A: 50
With Teacher B: 70

So although you won't be able to progress at twice the speed, with teacher B you definitely learn more.

Makes sense?

I am often told "Oh, I can get English lessons for 15 euros an hour" and I say, "Sure you can- with someone who isn't a qualified teacher, with someone who has no experience with setting a syllabus, with someone who has no experience with exams, with someone who won't be able to answer your grammar questions, with someone who may not even be a native speaker, with someone who may be a native speaker and semi-literate, with someone who is a tourist hoping to pick up a bit of spending money." Go for it!


I don't mind saying why I cost more than another teacher, but in the end it comes down to what the student wants and what they can afford.

I don't think piano teachers are a lot different than English teachers, except that a lot of people who speak English seem to think they can teach it. I don't think that same percentage of piano players think they can teach piano.

You already know why she costs more -- the point is do you want to pay for what she can give you?

Well, I did say it was very crude. Yes, of course diminishing returns ... I still think that double the price seems a little steep unless the others are terrible. Presumably 60 pounds is a little expensive even in the UK?

Speaking as a former coach (sports 'teacher'), sometimes you get what you pay for and sometimes you just get ripped off.

The best teacher in the world is someone who understands how to motivate someone else. Someone who knows how to unlock that inner desire in a person and constantly give them encouragement, positive reinforcement as well as an ongoing incentive to do better.

This is MORE important than a fancy resume stating what the teacher has accomplished. Now if the teacher has an ongoing record of producing top-notch students then by all means pay the money. If not don't because you may be getting ripped off.

In my opinion, you should ask, but I believe this transcends music lessons.

If you have a sincere question about anything in life, you should ask: immediately.

If you ask a question of this type and your question is rebuffed, sidestepped or avoided . . THAT is your answer!

£60 really is the top price. If you don't get wowed straight off think again.

I'm guessing that one major cause for the greater cost of lessons is the fact that she is traveling to your home. There are gas expenses involved and the opportunity costs of time spent traveling that she could be spending teaching another student.

Do the price comparisons you have come from teachers who would similarly be coming to your house?

Avoid the view from the cheap seats.

Like Chopin r us says, it's at the top end.



They normally add a fiver or so on - no more than £40 in total for the other ones though, I'd say.


Thanks for the comments that have been posted. I agree with the comment that it is kind of rude to ask her, even though slightly paradoxically I think it's a reasonable thing to want to know.

I will just give her a try, along with possibly another teacher or two, and make a judgement based on that.

I agree with the notion that if she can really make my playing that much better than other teachers then it is ultimately worth the money. I'll just have to try and evaluate that as best I can with as much alacrity as I can muster.

Sounds interesting. Remember the saying: You get what you pay for.

You could try the Rossy plan... 120 pounds an hour and she wears a french maid outfit.

Expensive Teacher:

* "The most qualified teacher in the listings I read..."

* "...The only one with testimonials..."

* "...has a perfect exam pass rate."

* " I liked the cut of her jib when I spoke to her on the phone".

The Other Teachers:

* No testimonials.

* A less than perfect exam pass rate? (perhaps)

* No knowledge of how communication between me and them might be.

* ?

I would jump at the chance to study with the expensive teacher given that information, unless there was absolutely no way I could afford the extra expense, and then I would find a way to make the extra 20 pounds a week.

I don't know your area, but generally, the way teachers get pricier is by developing a reputation and following. They can charge what the market is willing to pay them when their ability is recognized.

Sometimes you can get a bargain, because in music some very able folks work for less than they are really worth. I've also known people just starting out who offer low rates to get their studios launched. They can be terrific, but you're also getting a discount for their lack of experience.

I think it's worth paying for the extra quality. I feel very lucky with my own teacher, to have the opportunity to study with someone great who charges more than some others (and also lucky to be able to afford it).

Perhaps this woman is actually charging for all of her time, instead of just adding a few pounds like her colleagues, to teach you in your home. In that case I admire her. Generally it is rare to find a top-drawer teacher willing to travel to you for piano lessons.

That said, I agree with other posters. Her fee may have no relationship to her teaching skills. She might be great, or she might be so-so (I would doubt she is outright incompetent). Clearly you found her via an ad, not a personal referral: the one thing we know about her is that she is successful at writing ad copy.

"Friendly but no-nonsense" and "perfect exam pass rate" would set off alarm bells for me - that's the last thing I would be seeking as an adult returning to the piano - but I'm not you. By all means meet with her.

You might also mention to her that her teaching rate is so much higher than everyone else's in the region, and see how she responds. That will tell you plenty. If you like your initial meeting with her and are still unsure, you could ask her if you can speak to one of her students.

Peter (piano teacher and specialist in the adult piano learner)

You're a "lapsed" player who has decided to give it a try again, and to do so you purchased a grand?

Your first question should have been: should I really make the big investment in a grand to undertake an often tedious and frustrating long term endeavor that very well may lapse again? Wouldn't a reasonably priced digital have been a much better choice in the beginning, at least until you got to the point where you were fairly sure you were "lapse-proof"?

But, now that you've done so (bought the grand) perhaps to have the best chance of staving off that lapse you should give very serious consideration to paying the price for the best teacher available; one who will keep you interested and motivated in spite of all the difficulties of piano study (which may or may not be the best teacher from a technical standpoint).

After all, compared to the price of the grand an expensive teacher is a bargain. If you lapse again you'll lose money on the resale of the grand, and beat yourself up for your apparent impetuosity.

Trap

I don't think I was completely clear. I'm lapsed in the sense of having formal lessons and really pushing myself - I've never stopped playing fully and always have and always will love to play. I've had a digital piano the past 10 years and bought the grand now I've moved out of my flat to a house. It's something I've always wanted and even in the (highly unlikely) event that I never push on beyond where I am now I still have a lovely instrument to play all the stuff I play at the moment.

Once upon a time I knew a piano teacher at Peabody in Baltimore. I asked him what he charged for private lessons. It was about forty times what I paid to Mrs. X, who was getting me started as an adult beginner then. The maestro said I wouldn't get anything out of his lessons, either, because he taught how to win competitions.

No, it wasn't completely clear - "lapse" generally means to discontinue, or miss, or allow to expire - "slacked-off" or "de-intensified" might have been better - but then glad you got the grand you always wanted - someday maybe me too - as far as a teacher goes, get the best you can afford, although that may be the one who gives you the most motivation & encouragement & fun, and not necessarily the one with the most experience & knowledge - however, are you sure you even need one?

Trap

The first verb definition on dictionary.com reads "to fall or deviate from a previous standard; fail to maintain a normative level" which is apt for my situation. In any case, I could have still been clearer that I hadn't completely stopped playing.

And yep, I do think I need a teacher to whip me into shape, identify my flaws and help me methodically improve them.

Regarding your initial question...if there was any way I could afford it, I would start with this "pricey teacher" and then apply the "tincture of time".
(I would consider the savings in travel time a big plus.)

Hi TheHound - start with teacher and see how it goes for awhile and then decide what to do next.

When I was looking for a teacher last year I contacted several. Some never returned my call or emails at all! This was a real put off!!

Of the 2 that did I met both of them. One charges $45 per half hour and the other $22. Both taught out of their homes. I met the first one. She was nice but just didn't seem to listen to what I was saying. She spent a lot of time playing a variety of pieces telling me I could play these too. She didn't ask me anything about my goals, direction, etc. Again I just simply felt she wasn't listening even when I kept trying to interject into her playing.

The second teacher I met listened, asked me what I wanted to achieve, and got me to play what I could. I don't think we had an instant connection or anything like that but she listened and that seemed the clincher for me!!

I contacted the first teacher to let her know my decision and she never even responded!! Again a put off! very unprofessional behavior I think. How did she know that ultimately I may not come back to her?

Both of these teachers have very high credentials. Both were registered teachers. If I remember both also performed in the past. Both play very well. But for me, one just Never felt right. Like we couldn't communicate. I didn't take the decision lightly. I really thought about it hard. But in the end if I left a lesson and felt I wasn't being heard I think I would just feel frustrated.

So far I've been with my current teacher 8 months. My son also started lessons about 5 months ago. Things are going well. She knows her stuff and I try my best to learn it. When I can't seem to get it she shows me something differently. She will have me repeat things that make me struggle. She is kind (probably too kind to me!!) yet firm. She is a good teacher. So as it's working out right now we will continue!!

Perhaps you could ask several of her current or past students about her and if the higher price was worth it to them and why?

Every other week would work until your money situation improves.

Or, you can do and "interview/trial week" and meet with maybe three or so teachers and see what you think.

It's true you get what you pay for but some people can over or under inflate their prices. But, if you really feel the pricey teacher has the best qualifications and you like the trial lesson then I'd say it's worth the $. And she's going to you so that saves on time and gas/petrol $

If I were in this situation...
I would ask her for once every other week.
Won't cost anymore than you were planning on.
She may surprise you...May be more than you can handle every other week.
Give her a good shot.

Less of really good is better than more of mediocrity.

I'll never forget a very expensive maid I had once. Recommendation said don't worry about the money. So I ignored it and gave her a try. She was great. To sum it up...She was the most inexpensive maid I ever had. And no Rossy...she didn't wear a French maid outfit.

I'm forking out A$80 for a weekly one hour lesson that I travel to. The first year my teacher charged A$50 then came $75. I want to get my diploma as soon as my abilities allow me to. That is highly dependable on getting the best teacher I can get. My teacher is pricy no doubt, but I've learned a lot in less than 2 years (after not having lessons for 18 years). I never dreamt of playing Mozart, Bach, Chopin, Debussy, Rachmaninov, Brahms, Ravel, Prokofiev etc. so soon, but I am!

With the other teacher (before my current teacher), she was charging A$85 per hour lesson. She had me practice scales and Czerny. I would have been happy to stay with her back then. I progressed way faster with the current teacher.

With the previous teacher, I was aiming for Grade 8 exam. With this one, he has opened up possibilities for a diploma exam.

I don't know how to help you but to share my example. A$50 = absolutely fantastic teacher. A$85 = reasonably ok teacher. $50 teacher has far better credentials then $85 teacher. Maybe don't narrow your search to one but do try a few before deciding. Sometimes being the most expensive doesn't mean the best.

Good luck!

to take advantage of what a good teacher can offer, one has to be a receptive student.

I paid one what at the time I thought was way too much.. in retrospect it was totally worth it. I teach a variety of nontraditional students.. I told one that her talking was cutting into what i could offer her in the time we chose to learn.

it is a shared experience.

Appreciate all the comments - they are helping me think about this from different angles and providing me with a number of perspectives. I'm meeting her tomorrow so will have a better idea then. If all goes really well then I'm considering the idea of starting with every other week and seeing how that goes.

We've spent so much time attending to this issue of price that we have neglected something basic. Ask this lady to tell you a little about her experiences with teaching adults, and her views on the differences between teaching piano to adults and to children.

She may simply maintain that there is no difference in teaching a 10-year-old and a 50-year-old. Or similarly, she might even be stumped by your questions. Or resentful of them.

If so, she's a typical myopic, goal-driven piano teacher of kids - and you deserve someone better.

What do you want to learn? I think, people who are returning to playing should spend some time on their own. Read through some old pieces, improvise, compose some little ditties, etc. Find out what you really want to do. Music is a vast field that no one person can know.

In 1995 I decided to find a good teacher after a few average ones. I was working in Manhattan at the time. I found an add in the Yellow Pages and decided to call that person. We spoke on the phone for a while and when I asked him what he charges, he asked me to come to his studio and he will discuss everything face to face.

When I arrived I found that he was an older person which appealed to me. We spoke about where I was in my playing and where I wanted to be. I told him I wanted to do a combination of classical and popular. He spent about an hour with me giving me some pointers. He told me that he was the band leader on a TV program in the 50's and that he had taught Peter Duchin (Eddie's son). I listened to him play and I could see he was quite accomplished at the piano. I asked him what he charged and he said he usually charges $125/hr but that was for the adult students that were able to afford his rates. He offered to charge me $75/hr. Previously I was paying $45/hr. I told him that was quite a lot for me and I would let him know.

I went back to my office and thought about what we had discussed and what he had shown me and decided to try him out so I called him and accepted.

I took lessons from him for 5 years. He was the most outstanding teacher I ever had. I progressed beyond my wildest dreams at the time. An hour lesson time meant nothing to him. Many times I had to stop him because I had to get back to work. I never had a lesson less than 1hr 15 min. Sometimes one and a half hours.

As they say, "you get's what you pays for". Unfortunately at the age of only 84 he decided to retire. I had teachers after him but none to compare.

Jerry, that's a marvelous anecdote about your finding a fine piano teacher. And via the Yellow Pages, no less.

But if he had not offered to lower his fee ($125) by a whopping forty percent for you (to $75), would you have still signed on with him? Maybe just seen him less often?

Did he ever raise his rate for you during those 5 years, or did it remain $75? I have a feeling that the most expensive piano teachers tend to have rather flexible fee structures.

Peter,

He never raised his fee in the entire time I was with him. Furthermore he never mentioned raising his fee.

You are right. iIf he told me the charge was $125 I could not see my way clear to take lessons from him.

Most of his students were wealthy individuals. Some names he mentioned were from the superrich class. I think he made enough from them to give poor me a break. He was that kind of person. Never once did he mention again what he charged others.

I also think he liked teaching me because I was very enthusiastic and generally practiced so that I did adequate justice to the prior weeks material.

If he were still around I would have continued taking lessons from him.

This thread seems to make some statements I'm not sure how I feel about. Firstly, Ive been with my teacher 2 years & don't really know much about her credentials besides how well she plays & knowing she was a performer. And that shes taking me through the Alfred adult beginner series so many others are going through with their teachers. Anyway, I get charged $40/hr for lessons. Based on things I think people are saying, my teacher couldn't be very good? If we get the word out that if you teach piano no one will think you're a good teacher unless you charge $60/hr they'll probably all raise their prices, lol.

It also sounds like people think you get what you pay for & the high priced teachers are better then lower priced teachers. But one of my worst ever teachers was also one of the most expensive. This teacher had nearly no ethic & no called no showed multiple times proving they didn't care about the student. A teacher that doesn't show up to teach is worthless..

I'm just saying I don't think we can make sweeping statements like all $30/hr teachers suck and all $70/hr teachers will bring out your inner Rachmaninoff.

Meanwhile, I have been considering a lesson or two with another teacher for comparative purposes. Not sure if a lesson or two would prove much though, lol.

I will add a post script to my adventures in taking lessons.
After my expensive teacher retired, I found a teacher located about 3 min from my house. I met with that teacher who was a retired airline worker and about 80 years old. He said he only teachers popular.

One of my goals was to learn to play directly from a fake book, something that my prior teacher in the city did not teach.

This new teacher charged $15 for a half hour. At the first lesson he gave me rules of chord progressions, something I had not learned before. We progressed from there.

I stayed with him for about 3 years afer which time he said that he taught me everything he could. He never once raised the price.

The moral is that there is always an exception to the rule.

I dont think the price should be the main factor here. If youre not advaced yet, teacher's level is not THAT important either (any teacher can explain basic / intermediate stuff. If they can explain it so you understand it, that doesn't depend on their overall skill).

The most important thing in my opinion is (as the others have pointed out) to ask the teacher about their adult-teaching approach.

I have had my teacher for a year and a half and I am very content. She understands adults (or teens like me) who want to play piano for fun, but, despite their late start, do it with some amount of musicality. I am very glad that my teacher criticizes me if it is needed, and takes me seriously. I play scales, etudes and various exercises, get scolded (in a good way) for seemingly unimportant things that could hinder my later progress.

There are other teachers who seem to have much more 'relaxed' approach towards late-beginners. My friends has one, he has been attending the lessons for about 5 months. He has only played pop pieces (some were inadequate for a beginner, there was no way he could play them right, he refused. Poor adults who don't.) I have seen him playing, his posture (and therefore arm position, hand position) is completely wrong... He is loving it and says I'm too uptight and snobby but I think he will find out eventually.

The point is, he pays more than me. I pay 150 CZK for 45mins or 250 CZK for 90 mins. He pays 300 CZK for an hour.

I am really surprised at the price of teachers in US / UK. Your average payrate is much higher of course, but I pay 5 pounds/7,7$ for 45 mins lesson haha. That must be a revenge for everything else. I always get mad when I see people who ''recently returned to playing'' or ''decided to learn'' and purchased a grand as a start sadly, here, piano = upright. Grands are mainly used for jokes.

Funnily enough, it's actually easier for us to fit a grand in our house than an upright, as we have the floor space for the former but not the wall space for the latter. Either way, I don't think you can make hard and fast judgements about what's appropriate to get. It's obviously far from necessary to have one if you're a total beginner (and don't know whether you'll stick it out), but then again if you've got the space and the money, then why not. For me and my situation, it was a no-brainer - not least because I've always wanted one. Even if I hadn't started pushing myself again it would still have been pretty much worth it as the easier pop/rock/showtune stuff still sounds a million times better on it and feels far superior to play.

Anyway, I had the lesson. It went well, and I've been practicing since then and enjoying myself while making satisfying progress. The teacher seems to understand well how to teach adults and to achieve a good balance to ensure good progression while maintaining enjoyment. I am going to stick with her for the moment, but keep it to every other week at first.

Hi The Hound. I'm glad your first lesson went well. It's a good idea to stick with her for awhile as it may take time to get comfortable with each other. The important thing I think is to be learning and gaining in technique while also having fun! Enjoy your journey!

Thanks Zoe - pretty much my feelings on the matter.

That's great news, good for you I too have been thinking about having lessons only every other week, because 7 days are sometimes too few for a significant progress.
And I'm sorry you took my comment as critique, I never meant to say a grand was in any way inappropriate or ''too much'' for you, it was just an envious sigh heck, I would buy it too if I could