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#1840951 - 02/08/12 10:25 PM
Scaling down hard attacks to save the fingers
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2000 Post Club Member
Registered: 05/02/03
Posts: 2007
Loc: NYC
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I'm bringing back a 1950s' piece (Cage's Music of Changes) for several upcoming performances, and it's a piece with lots of hard, sudden, rapid attacks (ff, fff, etc.) widely spaced across the keyboard, and I'm hurting myself in practicing. I keep forgetting I can't sustain that energy when I'm doing passages over and over. I think I bruised my little finger today.
Must scale down the attack levels, or I'll be in bad shape for the first performance in a week!
Does anyome else notice this? Probably not as much a problem with traditional repertoire.
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#1840952 - 02/08/12 10:29 PM
Re: Scaling down hard attacks to save the fingers
[Re: RealPlayer]
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Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 14778
Loc: New York
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There's another reason to scale them down: If you attack all of them that hard, it's just not as good -- everything's the same. Nothing stands out, because everything stands out. There's no structure. The music doesn't go anywhere. I guess I just said the same thing about four times over.  Which is sort of how music sounds when we're attacking everything.  Oh yeah.....it also saves the fingers if you don't do that. 
_________________________
"Everything I say is my opinion, including the facts." :-)
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#1840958 - 02/08/12 10:41 PM
Re: Scaling down hard attacks to save the fingers
[Re: Mark_C]
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2000 Post Club Member
Registered: 05/02/03
Posts: 2007
Loc: NYC
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There's another reason to scale them down: If you attack all of them that hard, it's just not as good -- everything's the same. Nothing stands out, because everything stands out. The fortes are not all the same. There are at least 4 levels of forte and 4 of piano, plus subtle accented versions of each. That's part of why it's so hard.
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#1840967 - 02/08/12 11:02 PM
Re: Scaling down hard attacks to save the fingers
[Re: RealPlayer]
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5000 Post Club Member
Registered: 11/23/07
Posts: 5429
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Does anyome else notice this? Probably not as much a problem with traditional repertoire.
Oh, yes, I get "bone bruises" from hard attacks, and it can happen in practically any music.
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#1840970 - 02/08/12 11:09 PM
Re: Scaling down hard attacks to save the fingers
[Re: RealPlayer]
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Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 14778
Loc: New York
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There's another reason to scale them down: If you attack all of them that hard, it's just not as good -- everything's the same. Nothing stands out, because everything stands out. The fortes are not all the same. There are at least 4 levels of forte and 4 of piano, plus subtle accented versions of each. That's part of why it's so hard. But even among fortes that are marked the same, they're still not the same.  I think that in general, it's best to save the "all out" for just a few selected places. But even if you don't subscribe to that, I think it's safe to say that there's a musical consideration for not having as many "hard attacks" as you seemed to be wondering about.
_________________________
"Everything I say is my opinion, including the facts." :-)
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#1840981 - 02/08/12 11:38 PM
Re: Scaling down hard attacks to save the fingers
[Re: RealPlayer]
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8000 Post Club Member
Registered: 09/18/08
Posts: 8208
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Not to mention a lot of heavy pounding will degrade your piano's tuning faster than it already is.
_________________________
~H
Close only counts in horseshoes, hand grenades, and nuclear weapons.
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#1841001 - 02/09/12 12:47 AM
Re: Scaling down hard attacks to save the fingers
[Re: RealPlayer]
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2000 Post Club Member
Registered: 05/02/03
Posts: 2007
Loc: NYC
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Thanks, everyone. What it is, is adrenalin. It's just so exciting to hear the good results at top speed and volume, and it requires constant attention to scale things down...which is totally necessary.
Attention, attention.
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#1841058 - 02/09/12 03:54 AM
Re: Scaling down hard attacks to save the fingers
[Re: RealPlayer]
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Full Member
Registered: 08/17/08
Posts: 348
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I had this problem before, I would always bruise my fingers because I got enthusiastic on some places and hit the keys too hard. Know your flesh's "bruise limit" and stay under it, especially with heavy actions.
Edited by trigalg693 (02/09/12 03:54 AM)
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#1841065 - 02/09/12 04:07 AM
Re: Scaling down hard attacks to save the fingers
[Re: RealPlayer]
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5000 Post Club Member
Registered: 12/28/09
Posts: 5782
Loc: Here, as opposed to there
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If you're actually hurting yourself then I sure as helll don't want to hear the end result. You should probably look into picking up a drum kit or something.
_________________________
"And if we look at the works of J.S. Bach — a benevolent god to which all musicians should offer a prayer to defend themselves against mediocrity... -Debussy
"It's ok if you disagree with me. I can't force you to be right."
♪ ≠ $
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#1841108 - 02/09/12 07:26 AM
Re: Scaling down hard attacks to save the fingers
[Re: RealPlayer]
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Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Registered: 01/01/03
Posts: 19476
Loc: Kansas
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i really wish i could hear this piece performed mr. Kubera. maybe a video will be recorded. a serious answer...I have hand issues and have ordered nylon inspector gloves to wear. they are super thin, impede proper performance, but not that much, and can be had for about 8 dollars a dozen. If i don't wear them sometimes, i get cracks, bleeding, nail issues. wearing them has increased my accuracy considerably. they are about 9 dollars a dozen and can be found singly at a hardware store probably (or pharmacy). they do get some getting used to. the sides of your fingers will thank you tho. i like non-cotton and particularly the ones with the red thread at the cuff... and these have green thread.. they are VERY thin tho and the green thread ones run small. http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/MCR-Glove-3NAV9?Pid=searchbest of luck
_________________________
accompanist/organist.. a non-MTNA teacher to a few
love and peace, Õun (apple in Estonian)
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#1841195 - 02/09/12 10:45 AM
Re: Scaling down hard attacks to save the fingers
[Re: apple*]
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2000 Post Club Member
Registered: 05/02/03
Posts: 2007
Loc: NYC
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i really wish i could hear this piece performed mr. Kubera. maybe a video will be recorded. I've recorded it, and it's available on the Lovely Music label. And thanks for the tips on the gloves; will look into it. 
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#1841197 - 02/09/12 10:50 AM
Re: Scaling down hard attacks to save the fingers
[Re: stores]
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Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 14778
Loc: New York
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If you're actually hurting yourself then I sure as helll don't want to hear the end result. You should probably look into picking up a drum kit or something. Sort of what I meant too but I tried to put it nicer. 
_________________________
"Everything I say is my opinion, including the facts." :-)
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#1841377 - 02/09/12 04:41 PM
Re: Scaling down hard attacks to save the fingers
[Re: DameMyra]
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Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Registered: 05/26/01
Posts: 15661
Loc: Victoria, BC
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There is a difference between practice and performance. In sustained, repetitive practice one must always be aware of the danger of injury. Even in standard repertoire, practicing large chords fff, over and over is dangerous and counterproductive. Save it for rehearsal or performance. Professional opera singers, even in public rehearsals with orchestra, will often sing at half-voice, saving their full voice for the "real" performances. In repertoire such as mentioned, would this not be advisable, even if not all the time? Regards,
_________________________
BruceD - - - - - Estonia 190 in satin ebony
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#1841409 - 02/09/12 05:26 PM
Re: Scaling down hard attacks to save the fingers
[Re: RealPlayer]
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5000 Post Club Member
Registered: 11/23/07
Posts: 5429
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Thanks, everyone. What it is, is adrenalin. It's just so exciting to hear the good results at top speed and volume, and it requires constant attention to scale things down...which is totally necessary.
Attention, attention. Do be careful. I think Bronfman actually broke a finger playing piano not so long ago.
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#1841411 - 02/09/12 05:29 PM
Re: Scaling down hard attacks to save the fingers
[Re: wr]
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2000 Post Club Member
Registered: 06/12/09
Posts: 2789
Loc: Bay Area, CA
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Thanks, everyone. What it is, is adrenalin. It's just so exciting to hear the good results at top speed and volume, and it requires constant attention to scale things down...which is totally necessary.
Attention, attention. Do be careful. I think Bronfman actually broke a finger playing piano not so long ago. True that. At a concert in Berkeley, playing Prokofiev's 8th sonata. -J
_________________________
Learning: Polonaise-Fantasie, Scherzo 1, op.59 mazurkas Refining: Chopin 27/2, 25/1, 10/9, 10/5, 10/6
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#1841933 - 02/10/12 01:50 PM
Re: Scaling down hard attacks to save the fingers
[Re: RealPlayer]
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2000 Post Club Member
Registered: 05/02/03
Posts: 2007
Loc: NYC
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Practicing these last two days more lightly, and that definitely helps.
My nails look like crap, but that happens whenever I practice a lot, any volume, any music.
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#1841955 - 02/10/12 02:20 PM
Re: Scaling down hard attacks to save the fingers
[Re: RealPlayer]
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Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Registered: 01/01/03
Posts: 19476
Loc: Kansas
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actually nail stengthening polish might help.. you could sand the tops a bit so it doesn't show.
ha ha
_________________________
accompanist/organist.. a non-MTNA teacher to a few
love and peace, Õun (apple in Estonian)
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