I can't use metronomes at all. My friend once said to pretend like its a drummer keeping time but that didn't really help -lol

Are you sure your rhythmically challenged? I used to think the same thing but then my current teacher said my timing is fine its just because I am "figuring things out" - that I am slow in some places the speed up in others (slow in the more difficult places then speed up in the places I'm comfortable with). No one else ever pointed that out before so I just assumed my timing was bad.

Also, do you spend time with the song, clapping/counting the rhythm before you play it? That can be really helpful.

Well yes, no-one expects you to play fluently at the "figgering-out" stage! But how long do you STAY at that stage? Once "figgered", the aim is to achieve a performance all at the same speed, surely? If you then can't keep with a metronome, go back and "figger it out" better!

There are no rules and even "best practices" guidelines depend on context. As an aside, I find MANY "suggested" Metronome markings in books to be very ambitious and the others are right. I routinely take them on as challenges and my teacher routinely tells me to ignore them. Control and relaxation are the key to finding speed. Concentrate on the first two and the other will follow.

In general, keep the metronome at a comfortable speed. We like tempos around our normal range of heartbeats 60 to about 110. Anything slower and you tend to chase it instead of lock in with it. Much faster and feels to frantic. In the case of Hanon, Either skip the Metro until you get the exercise into your fingers a bit OR set the Metronome to 80-100 and let the clicks be the eighth notes. Re-read the first paragraph now.

Kurt

I think this needs thinking through a little more critically! Sure, if you're constructing a therapeutic relaxation track, go with the heartbeat. But much music is intended to demand attention, to invigorate. Faster tempi are very common. It's not all about making things "easy" :-)

I think you conflated several points. I blame my poor writing skills.

1. Metronome markings in many books are unrealistically high. My teachers admit this. Only the already virtuosic could reach them. The already virtuosic don't work out of level 3 etude books.


#2 People, especially beginners have a hard time following really slow clicks (below 50). You can't do it until you already have your internal clocks established and reliable. My years of observation as a drummer at which I studied assiduously for 20 years, and what I find to be common practice in my amateurish studies of cello and woodwinds is that as tempos and "note density" rise, the tendency is to start counting, conducting, feeling and setting metronomes at slower subdivisions. I'm trying to tell a beginner that it's okay to separate the velocity of the click from the stated time signature. It's okay and sometimes even a good idea to or count a fast 3/4 as measures of 6/8 or 12/8. This is independent of:

#3 You can't play RELIABLY fast until you are playing with control. You can't play with control at 150 until you can play with control at 130 or 140. Corrorarily, you get control at 150 by trying to play at 160. I never meant to imply that Flight of the Bumble Bee was just as good at 90 bpm as it is at whatever it's supposed to be. A beginner should relax and get used to playing with the metronome before attempting to go fast.

The stuff about heartrate is just musing based on my observations and the fact that a lot of people, armies and dancers seem to like tempos at divisions of sixty and that the range of normal heartbeats is from a little below sixty to just about 180 in fit athletes.


I tried to name one of my bands "Wombat Sucide". I was outvoted. I was also outvoted on "Anthrax". They said nobody would ever buy records from a band that was named after a cattle disease. As you may know, history proved them wrong.

Kurt

I don't have a ton of experience behind me or anything, but I had a lot of trouble following a metronome while practicing scales. I noticed that the trouble came from trying to listen to the metronome and the piano at the same time - I don't know what it is, but there's something about the two sounds that conflict with each other for me. I then started watching the beat count (my metronome is based on a tablet), which I was able to follow with no problem.

So maybe you could try using a metronome that gives you a visual cue? (Some have flashing lights, or others show the beat count, etc...) Also, do others have an opinion on using a metronome in this way?

Only that, if you have control of your playing, it should be easy to keep with the beat however it is presented. And I am lost in admiration for the ingenious reasons people are coming up with for not having to try!

Some day you may want to:
Play piano duets with someone
Accompany a soloist
Play in a chamber ensemble
If your rhythms are incorrect and tempos uneven, THEY will not want to play with you.
David Finckel (cellist with the Emerson quartet) has 100 tutorials on youtube. Look for No.26 'Practicing with a metronome'. Great advice from a wonderful musician.

Ladies and gents: please remember the POINT of this thread is to share tips to learn how to use the metronome! Or ask about different methods while learning!

Coolkid70: I had the exact opposite problem. For some reason using a digital at all just completely mucked me up. I bought a wind up one with the pendulum and I can both watch and listen to it just fine. I just have to work with it really really slow right now (I'm just up to 50 on scales now.) I also have started to clap, tap my feet, and sway in time with it to try to feel the beat. I'm getting there, it's just really slow.....

Actually, you brought up a really good point - maybe it's just the digital sound is the problem part. I should try a physical one, and see how that works out.

Thanks!

I don't play using the metronome, but I've been finding it handy when trying to figure out the current piece: Froberger, so overlapping different length note suspensions in different fingers at the same time and across bars. The metronome has helped me to achieve certainty on the *relative* values where the value range is very wide.

I just set the speed to *pretty slow and comfortable*, and then hummed/tapped out the individual notes in time with the metronome, a few times.

(Of course Froberger also means inegalite etc., so the final result should not be metronomic, but I need a good foundation first.)

I'm still plodding along! I'm up to 52 now and am starting to get comfortable with it a bit more...


I was able to use it for the first time with a song at a speed of 84 yesterday! Huge improvement! I'm now starting to be able to go oh I'm not very smooth in the section and out comes my clicker!

Congratulations, BeccaBb! It's nice to see that metronome-phobia is not a terminal condition, but can be cured by consistent work.

Thank you! I figure if I can learn how to use this thing anyone can! I think it's combination of finding the right metronome for you, plus starting out really really slow with something simple and then building up with daily practice!

There is hope! LOL

Hi Becca...

Your tenacity and good attitude is wonderful! Learning to play the piano is hard, which is why only a few do it.

I noticed that in your video you are "pushing" the beat, i.e. as the scale progresses, you are going faster than the metronome.

That is very common, most people increase their speed as they play, and is thus one of the most common things that the metronome will correct.

If you were my student, I would suggest you do the following:

1. Get a rattle or tambourine and slap your leg (lighty) with it as the metronome clicks, but while you do not play. Do this with each hand singly. This gets your body moving with the beat, without the mental/physical burden of playing the right notes w/the right fingers.

2. Do the above, only add in counting on the beat. (1-2-3-4) Count out loud, and make it LOUD, not under your breath. Counting in your head at this stage does not work very well. Make it very LOUD. (I know its embarrassing).

3. Play one hand of the scale with the metronome, and slap the rattle with the other.

4. Then play the other hand as above.

5. Add in counting ( 1-2-3-4) with playing ONE hand only.

6. Then the other hand.

7. Play both hands together, with counting, with the metronome. Do this last, after you can play with each hand, on the beat w/o speeding up.

All of these are tools I have used successfully to help people integrate the beat.

Best Wishes.

Well done! Now try to play WITH the click, not a bit before it. It's not about being able to keep up, more about having complete control over your playing.

Hi Becca

Its great to see you implementing the advice you recieved....and to see that it is working. Good job.

It may be too soon for this, and I would defer to the teachers hereabouts on the subject, but I would love to see you get that left pinky under control while you are doing this nice slow scale work. It seems like the perfect time to me. You are going to have to eliminate that tension sooner or later. (Can't see the right pinky, but it too if it is flying like the left.)

To get it under control you may actually have to play just one note, then stop and totally relax your hand, keeping all fingers in contact with the keys.....only then can you play the second note, stop...relax in contact with the keys....play the third note.... etc..etc.. This can be painfully, irritatingly slow, and requires great patience on your part, but I can attest firsthand to the fact that this works wonders if actually followed for a week or so.

Jim

Becca - you have my respect for keeping at this. Thumbs double up!

Cathy

JimF, I'm expected to be practicing other things this week but I am going to follow your suggestions and see if I can become a paid-up member of the Pinkie Relaxation Club!

(An interlude after work to stop at the music store to buy More Music! Yay!, and now I'm at the piano.)

Oh. My.

My Left Pinkie is TWITCHING when I tell it to relax. Very interesting. To teach it what relaxed is, I'm dangling my hand at my side and then raising it to the keys. If I just reach for the keys without that, it can't find relaxed. Wow. Thank you so much for posting about this, JimF.

Thank you for all the suggestions (where to start hmmm...)

Rocket: I do count outloud to the point I don't realize I'm doing it anymore! I"m trying to teach myself to tap with my left foot but it exhausts quickly.. I'm not giving up though. I do tap and clap to try to "feel" it but I'm going to try your suggestions also as I do have trouble keeping rhythm with one hand while playing with the other. Thank you.

Exalted Wombat: I'm still a bit off? Darn I will keep at it

Jim: I have decided to dedicate part of my scale work (I added in about 10 minutes a day) to work on my pinky. It is only on my left side. My hand is brutally tense. I will try your method as I can't seem to make it relax and I know that is its problem.

Cathy: Thank you.

PS: Maybe we should start a Defeat the flying Pinky club! LOL

Becca and PS88,

I am glad you are going to try the slooooooowwww relax method....and would be even happier if you did it with your teacher's guidance.

Anyway, lest you think you are doing it too slow and want to speed up, when I first worked on this I would literally count to 10 in between each note. Can't stress enough - just wait until your hand is totally relaxed (and all fingers in contact with the keys) before playing the next note - however long that takes. Once you get the hand relaxed, try to focus your mind on what that feels like. Then play the next note, and wait for the hand to relax again, however long it takes.

JimF: + 1

Just add that everytime you move a finger be sure not to drag others, and that others remain in contact with the keys. Try this first with only 5 notes, and then with the scale.

JimF and supertorpe, thanks for the additional advice. JimF, I will tell my teacher about this, but when I brought up my concern about my stiff pinkies about a month ago, she didn't offer any advice. I've started a "Teacher doubts" thread in the Teachers' forum here.

Jim & Super: +2 (or +1 each)

The general idea is that whatever force you need to press the key immediately disappears as soon as it's pressed. So press, relax. The weight of your hand/finger is enough to keep the key pressed.

The 5 fingers on 5 keys suggestion is spot on. Basically you are trying to create finger independence and remove any impulses to move your other fingers, either up or down. There are 2 main nerve paths that feed your fingers, one to your thumb, index and middle finger, and the other to your last 2 fingers. It's because of this that 4 and 5 give you the most trouble. What you are trying to get rid of while doing an exercise like this is the nerve impulse "spilling over" to another finger. So put 5 fingers on five keys and press the first key, release, then the 2nd, release and so on. You will quickly discover which fingers are connected and be able to start training them to work more independently.

Lastly, as to the timing, at slow tempos like that, it's often hard to feel a slow beat. My suggestion is to double the metronome time and play every 2 beats (still will be the same speed, just more clicks). This will help you feel what are called subdivisions of a beat. Feeling these should make it easier to not rush. Then you can go back to your original tempo and test that theory.