I was reading this rather old article about the development of Roland's SA synthesis for DPs, and found the following section interesting:

"The most important element of key touch is the dynamic weight. As the difference between the first-load and dynamic-load becomes larger, the key touch control increases, enabling richer sound egression.

But there is a limit to how strongly the key can be depressed, so the important thing is how light the first-load is. The grand piano's first-load, which is recognized as an ideal key touch, is 50-55 g, and Roland digital pianos' first-load (models incorporated with the hammer action keyboard mechanism) is 65-75 g. The digital pianos of a competitors' first-load,for instance, is 100-120 g, significantly heavier than that of the grand piano. This "heavy touch" not only places an unnecessary burden on the player's hands, but also narrows the player's range of expression because the difference between the first-load and the dynamic weight is too small.

To create the pianissimo sound, one need only to place a finger on the keyboard, causing the key to play due to the light first-load weight and smooth hammer action.

For fortissimo sounds, concentrate all the weight on the tip of the finger, and the desired "strong" sound can be created because of the dynamic weight reaction and force is continuously applied on the hammer.

The ability to play lightly (for pianissimo) or heavily (for fortissimo) and the ability to precisely control the sound is what is most desired in a fine piano keyboard."

I believe that the Roland "first-load" is now lighter than indicated - closer to the stated load for a grand piano - and I have no problem at all with controlling dynamics on my FP-7F. Somewhat counterintuitively, if what is stated is correct, those DPs with a heavier first-load are limiting the player (as well as adding to fatigue).

I always thought that a heavier action was bound to allow for greater expression, and I couldn't quite work out why the Rolands (including even the much maligned keyboard of the FP-4) could be played very dynamically.

Interesting perspective. I understand the logic, and interestingly enough, every well prepped grand I've ever played had a lighter feeling action than the DPs I was used to playing. How does the RH action compare to the PHA III Vox?

This is such a difficult question to answer, because, in the end, it's down to how well the action connects to the sound, rather than just the mechanics. IMO, the Roland has the edge in that regard. Right out of the box, the FP-7F plays beautifully. The Kawai has to be coaxed a little - play with the user velocity curve and you get significant improvements.

They aren't hugely different in weight (maybe the Kawai is a tiny fraction heavier), and if you play without sound the Kawai feels just a little tighter. If you were using the keyboards as controllers, the Kawai might be the slightly better action, but I'm really not certain. They are both very good actions.

As a newcomer to digital pianos, but a fairly long-time user of various acoustic pianos and a Fender Rhodes, my fist impression has been that digital pianos are surprisingly heavy to play - especially Yamaha and Kawai.

After a very limited trial experience in shops, I find the exceptions are Yamaha CP5 - MUCH lighter, and possibly a little too light for my liking, and Roland's best actions: PHAII and PHAIII.

I, for one, cannot quite understand why: 1. manufacturers are making their actions so heavy, and 2. why people seem to like it that way. (although point 2. possibly answers point 1.)

My take on why DP actions are so "heavy" is that they haven't been able to emulate the behavior of a piano action properly, so they add that extra resistance in an attempt to compensate. I've always wondered why DP actions suck, why it's so hard to get it right. Limited space, I figured. But Roland's PHAIII seems to disprove that. It's a very good action, not at all what I've come to expect from DP's.

There is always the interesting and somewhat philosofical question on whether emulating an acoustic action is actually a different goal than making the "best" action in terms of simply aiding the human hands in creating the most expressive music.

After all, AP actions are the way they are because they are confined by the laws of physics, not necessarily because that action is the easiest for playing music.

Therefore the whole DP concept is interesting because they can start with a clean slate and create almost any type of action they wish, although in practice they emulate APs because many people hold APs as the reference.

For example, if APs had never existed, would kind of action would DP players aim for ?

Anders

Many of us go back and forth between APs and DPs. Given that, don't you think it is a good idea to have the actions close to each other?

Yes. Given the above, why on earth would DPs be made heavier than an optimal acoustic piano? Makes no sense at all except as a kind of inverted snobbery or self inflicted flagellation for selling out to digital technology.......rather like English men pretending to like Vindaloo curries and ending up in hospital to have their arse seen to.

...or to put it another way, yes I agree with Torhu. I remember very early on, in the 1980's trying one of the first midi controllers (as they were then designated) which was supposed to be have a piano-like action and act as your main, or only, on-stage keyboard. And although the idea was neat, and although they presumably tried their best (I think it was Yamaha) it has to be said the touch lacked fine tuning, to put it mildly.

Well... though I cannot claim the honor of being an Englishman, some of us actually DO like Vindaloo curries because of the flavor; they've never done any harm to me.

Indeed, the only dish that ever sent me to the hospital was a paella eaten in Spain. Bad oyster... not an experience I wish to revisit!

Yeah - I'm hanging on to a bit of a cliché there...but I've heard people really used to talk that way: "My curry's hotter than yours," kind of thing. And there was a drummer in a band I was in who had such an experience.