What qualities differentiate a so-so vs. good vs. superb piano finish(or refinish)? Feel free to discuss any or all of these: ebony satin, ebony gloss, wood tone satin, wood tone gloss.Of course mention which kind of finish you are discussing.

Although I think most people have some sense of "how nice" a finish looks, I'm interested in more specific things one could look for. For example, I didn't used to like ebony gloss finishes much, but then I visited Boesendorfer NY and loved all those ebony gloss pianos. But I couldn't explain why I liked them if someone asked me. Another example would be the new Mason ebony satin finish vs. the older Mason ebony satin one. Although it may just be personal choice I much prefer the newer one, and here I at least know some of the differences in the newer finishing technique(poly over black lacquer vs. all lacquer before?).

What are some differences in finishing techniques or in the final appearance one finds in so-so vs. good vs. superb case finishes?

high gloss epoxy type finish looks great on a black piano, sort of like patent leather
tuxedo shoes, for my taste, not so good on a wood grain situation..too plastic looking.
I'd prefer a semi gloss..or satin..

Smoothness is very important, as is matching the sheen and color (You don't want the body to be more or less dull than the legs, for example). You also don't want the overall finish to be too thin (or too thick). Chips, dents, or dings are also a no no, obviously, but this sometimes happens with careless rebuilders.


On some new pianos with polyester high gloss finishes, you sometimes will find swirl marks from buffer wheels.

I think that, for what I've seen and for what I've read that , french Polish is the most beautiful kind of finishing. Maybe not the most strong , but yes the most beautiful for high quality wood.

Since I think the three areas to evaluate a piano are its tone, touch, and appearance, I was hoping to get a lot more responses. To the best of my knowledge there has been very little discussion at PW about what makes a finish good, fantastic, or not so good.

This thread is not for saying something like you prefer ebony satin to ebony gloss, but for saying here's what makes an ebony satin finish particularly good(or bad) or I like Make X's ebony satin finishes for these reasons.

Thanks

pianoloverus, for me , the three areas to evaluate a piano are its sound, its sound and its sound.

I do agree with Lluis. Sound is really the only thing that matters. But, if a piano's action isn't to my liking, playing it is far less pleasant. Since a piano is a large purchase, takes up a chunk of floorspace, and is on display in a room where family and friends hang out, a pretty piano certainly rates a few points, although I certainly wouldn't turn down an Elton Red concert grand.

I've been very happy with the polished walnut finish and the polished ebony (black) finish of my Yamahas. The finish only needs to be dusted with a microfiber cloth or a cloth diaper. Finger prints can be cleaned with (my dealer's recommendation) Spray Away ammonia-free glass cleaner. The only down-side to either finish is that they really show dust, especially the black.

The kind of the action will repercute to the soundbut not the kind of finish. Appareance is for me not as important as the sound and feel in the piano.

What makes a finish be good or bad, depends on the kind of veneer finished, how is the veneer wood treated before finished, what is the finish material used and how well is applied this material.

Depending on your taste and the instrument you're finishing you will apply one or another finish... Also depending on your budget!.

I have almost no experience in piano finishings but in my particular case I like pianos with rosewood or mahogany veneers polished with the technique of "French Polish" with almost no layers. This kind of veneer is very delicated but also very beautiful, it is a natural polish without any sintetic material.I think it fits great in this kind of high figured woods.

I have to say I hate all kinds of pianos that looks like coffins and sounds like cars. I cannot identify the "stetic sense" of this modern pianos with the "stetic sense" of the most beautiful works of classical music that will be interpreted in this instruments.

On the Polished Ebony finishes, you really need to look at them at a shallow angle and see if you see any waves in the finish. Another thing is look at is the reflection in the lid, usually of light fixtures and such on the ceiling. On a high quality finish, the reflection will be very clear, not blurred.

If you look at Yamaha C Series and up grands or U Series and up uprights you'll see very little distortion of objects reflected in the finish. The lower models will have some waves in the finish and the finish is somewhat cloudier. All Yamahas are finished in Polyester; makes a great gloss, an ok satin. When polyester gets satinized it tends to look gray compared to satinized lacquer like Steinway uses.

Charles Walter pianos use lacquer and their gloss mahogany and cherry are very pretty, very natural looking.

When buying a quality piano performance (tonality and touch) is, of course, the key factor. However, in all liklelihood you will be looking at the piano for the rest of your life.

So, appearence should play an important, yet secondary part of the decision-making process.

Personally, I like satin laquer wood finishes, particular a good contrasting grain Rosewood. We just got in a 1899 Hamburg Steinway AII in a Victorian Rosewood case. It was completely restored by 1066 restoration in England a few years ago with a French Polish finish.

Awesome!

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The Baldwin Satin Ebony pianos were finished in Lacquer similar to Steinways except Steinway has special formula for their color ("Ebonized"). Both makes have the same problem with the edges breaking through; this happens on wood finished pianos as well but it's pretty tough to see because underlying stain maintains the color.
Later model Steinways have a more pronounced rounding of the edges to prevent the breakthrough so hopefully they won't develop the "character" of their earlier counterparts as quickly.

For the record, "French Polishing" is actually shellac.

Piano priorities:
Me:
1. Sound
2. Smooth Responsive Action
3. Fit and Finish
4. Style of cabinet
5. Condition of Mechanicals

Wife:
1. Style of Cabinet
2. Color of Cabinet
3. Size of Cabinet
4. How Cabinet looks in Room
5. How room is decorated around piano

LOL! though really, people's priorities differ greatly.

My order of prefence for finish:

1. Satin ebony
2. Gloss ebony
3. Wood gloss
Never seen a wood satin in person before, but I'd like it better than gloss wood, and maybe even high polish ebony (2). But in my house, wood would look very out of place, and I've grown used to black polished now. If i'm looking at a black gloss finish, i'd look for absolute smoothness of reflection and dark colour, as well as being tough and withstanding scratches well. For that reason I like new Kawai finishes, as the the gloss black finish are tough as anything i've seen before.

You can't really compare the charactsristics of different finishes because of different materials, durability, looks. You'd have to compare black finishes to black finishes and wood to wood finishes. And with wood, there is also the veneer matching, and the quality of them. When you talk about finishes in general, all you will really get is a discussion on which we all like best, as far as I can tell. And we are so oriented on the sound and feel of the piano, we will frequently say (like above) that the finish is not important as the sound, but if we were to discuss the finish alone, we need to get rid of our comparative-importance way of thinking.

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?? This is exactly what my OP asked to do (although I asked posters to compare ebony satin to ebony satin,etc.), although some have just given their personal preference.

I don't think finish is unimportant to many/most piano buyers. If that were true, some makers are wasting tons of money trying to create the most beautiful finish in whichever types of finishes they do. Even if a pianist is much more interested in a piano's tone and touch, I think they compare the quality of piano finishes and those with special knowledge can talk about what determines the quality of the finish in each category(i.e. what distinguishes a great ebony satin finish from a good one from a mediocre one)

Some posters seem to have misread or misinterpreted the OP and are just saying which kind of finish they personally prefer...not really the topic of this thread.

Okay, apparently, you didn’t mean what you said… "feel free to post"…

I apologize for even posting to your thread and I’ll go back and delete my post.

Next time you say “feel free to post”… I hope you mean it.

Rick

I think if you read the entire post and my subsequent posts it's clear that my OP is not about comparing different kinds of finishes to each other but about what makes for a quality finish for each kind of finish(ebony satin, ebony gloss, wood tone satin, etc.)Many posters realized this, but some didn't. It really only makes sense to compare apples to apples. Comparing the quality of an ebony satin finish to the quality of an ebony gloss finish is not meaningful.

Most finishes do start out in some form of gloss whether it's lacquer or polyester and then the finishes are cut down with steel wool.
One advantage of poly is that it's very durable and is usually applied in thick coats so even if you do scratch it there's plenty left to buff. A couple of downsides to poly; one, it's not not very flexible; if the wood underneath expands or contracts you may end up with cracks or little ridges. Poly is also more difficult to repair, it doesn't "dry" in the way lacquer does, it cures and that can take several hours meaning multiple trips from the repair person. Color matching can be tough too, even with black.

Lacquer's disadvantage is that it's a softer material, much easier to scratch especially on gloss finishes. Lacquer is easier to repair and it's usually easier to find someone to fix it.

Almost every Asian piano maker finishes their pianos in polyester regardless if it's gloss, satin, solid or clear unless they're building an "American style" console. A good poly job is easy to spot next to a bad one- much smoother and clearer and the edges on a better processed job are usually sharper, not rounded.

American piano makers typically finish in lacquer regardless. That's part of the reason you don't typically see a high gloss black Steinway or Baldwin. Walter does a gloss; I haven't seen a gloss black in the field yet but I know the wood tones scratch pretty easily.

Bosendorfer has a unique satin; the finish sprays on satin and doesn't need to be steel wooled to cut it down.