Why is the Yamaha SU7 not available in the US? Market perceptions? Competition issue?

I have a feeling that they stopped importing the SU7 into the US a few years ago (can someone confirm this?). They probably replaced it with the YUS5. The SU7 was completely handmade, and used the same hammer felt as their C series grand pianos. I think it is still possible to fond them secondhand from private party sales, though it seems they are very rare in comparison the the amount of used U3's.

Tall high - end uprights are a very slow moving segment of the market in the US. Not much demand.

Here we go again.

Rotom,

When you first joined here, you opened a thread posing the question:



Later on the same thread, after truly knowledgeable members like Del, Steve Cohen, and Kurtmen had given you their thoughts, you ignored their input and turned the question on its head by writing:



If forum information provided by you is correct, you had just turned 13 at the time with a zillion questions and a zillion ready answers (as is common enough at that age .)

However, by now you should have attained the grand old age and wisdom of 14, at which point the number of questions should be increasing and the number of ready answers subsiding.

By your own definition, 'hand-made' is an irrelevant consideration, so why post this tidbit here?

If it keeps you out of mischief, it's fine to pore through the archives in your spare time. (I'm assuming that you're on summer school holidays and the spare time is ample) but for goodness sake, this is not Academic Decathlon where you have to ring the buzzer and jump in first to get points for your answer.

Let those who have first-hand knowledge and experience speak to a question before you wallpaper the board with the latest reply on every topic. They just might know a bit more than a 14-year-old regurgitating what he has read.

So the SU7 was available for purchase in the US at one time. Interesting.

By the profusion of "information" and "advice" generously thrust upon others who know even a little less than those oftentimes dispensing it here on Piano World, I was under the impression that "I read it on the internet somewhere" was beginning to qualify as first-hand knowledge and experience

Very true, but such is the nature of an internet forum. Every member here is entitled to their opinions and to offer their comments and advice to others. Granted, some members here are pros and much more knowledgeable and experienced than others.

That is no reason to single out and criticize younger or less knowledgeable or experienced members for offering their honest and sincere thoughts and opinions, even if they read it somewhere on the internet; if they are wrong or way off base regarding their advice or opinions, I’m sure the pros will chime in and set things right. We are all members of this forum together for the betterment of every member, and visitor, who wants to know more about acoustic pianos.

In regards to Rotom, and turondot’s scathing reprimand of his advice and opinions, he’s (Rotom) perhaps the brightest and most knowledgeable 14/15 year old that I know. I, for one, enjoy his posts and his contributions to the forum.

We are a community here, and like any community, there is a variety of ideas, and opinions; and, no matter how much we may know, or how experienced we may be, we can all learn from each other.

Let’s have a little more respect and tolerance for each others thoughts and opinions.

Rick

In defense of the forum veterans, I agree it is exasperating to read and then correct these posts that are based on no personal experience, knowledge, or playing time. If the good information is being drowned out by someone intent on simply upping their post count, then it dilutes the quality of information the forum provides-- not to mention that it makes us less likely to want to participate.

Well nothing is true on the internet until it is corroborated elsewhere by an independent source. That being said....90% of what I could not learn elsewhere has proved true here.

Rick,

I do not regard my criticism as scathing. I have four sons all of whom have been Tom's age and two of whom are still teenagers. My sons are, in my biased estimation, also bright and articulate. For that very reason I have never had a need to coddle them, and I see no need to coddle Tom. Generally speaking in my experience, kids appreciate hearing things straight. It's insecure adults who need to be coddled.

However, in the hope of seeming less scathing to you, let me re-post something I left on the thread Tom started over a year ago and re-opened several months later, a thread in which he sought to apologize for what he termed his "disrespectful and confusing posts".

"Try to be careful to base your posts on actual knowledge and personal experience. It's fine to read the archives, but you definitely want to avoid passing on what you have read there as your own knowledge. The reason for that is that there is quite a bit of highly opinionated material in the archives (and that's a kind way of putting it). Posts often come from bias and outright self-interest, not from fact. There is also some outright misinformation. That's not a criticism of PW. It' inevitable in a discussion forum.

Biased information and outright misinformation grow in importance each time they are repeated as if they come from your own knowledge. They can gain the status of factually correct information in some readers' minds.

If you were to simply say, for example, that X pianos are "bad", an inexperienced reader starving for piano information might fasten onto your statement like someone in shark-infested waters might fasten onto a life preserver. That reader might then exclude piano X entirely from consideration just to simplify his own confusion. That would be a shame. He might even pass on to someone else that piano X is bad. That would be even worse.

Cordiality and being pleasant are good things, but quality of information trumps all else."

If you disagree with any of that, Rick, let me know.

I find it odd that someone who has stated he turned 14 years of age, just 2 months ago, has so many 'answers' about pianos and feels the need to respond to a large portion of the inquiries that come into the piano forum.
I wonder how Rotom has achieved a seemingly large knowledge of pianos and the industry at such a young age and in turn giving out advice to the many people that ask questions here regarding piano purchases and information.

I get the sense that Rotom makes a lot of 'guesses' and wonder how fair that is to those making piano inquiries regarding knowledge and experience , on very significant monetary purchases.

OK....so what is the SU7 in the United States (or NOT) story?

Rafterman

SU7 is Yamahas top of the range upright, it replaced the SU131, and is a current model in the UK and according to this link it is (or was) available in the US at least in the silent version. The SG silent uprights have only been out for 5 or 6 years. If a call to a US dealer doesn't answer your question, contact Yamaha direct.

http://usa.yamaha.com/product_archive/keyboards/su7-sg_pe/?mode=model

Rotom, the hammer felt is not as per the C series, it's the same as on the S series

PS

Can anyone tell me why there's a lack of North American Yamaha dealer contribution on PW?

Rafterman

Another link to SU7 brochure - click on the pdf symbol to download brochure

http://uk.yamaha.com/products/musical-instruments/keyboards/uprightpianos/su7/su7/

I know the price point arguement with the SU7 vs a Grand. I just thought there would be a US market for it in larger apartment cities like NYC and SanFrancisco. I would love to hear one in comparison to a YUS5. Tremendous day and night difference? Is it s "feel" thing or both?

I can't believe it's not sold in the US.

Is there a night and day difference between YUS5 and SU7? In price yes.

Aesthetically, the SU7 wins with its more conventional European cabinet styling although the YUS5 music desk is more functional if you're into reading and writing.

In action terms, although the YUS5 action is amazing, it's hard to imagine the SU7 could feel appreciably better, but the improvement, even to a non pro, is obvious.

Musically, the bass is rounder, deeper, purer, the treble sweeter and the dynamic range even greater.

I'm afraid in the U.S., availability of the SU7 is past tense. Chris (or Will--whichever of you wrote this note)--the link you sent regarding U.S. availability of SU7 says "discontinued." I've spoken to several American dealers who have also said it cannot be purchased here.

Regarding the lack of participation of North American Yamaha dealers on PW, there's no inherent reason for it. A few do participate regularly (e.g., Jeff Bauer from Keyboard Concepts in Santa Monica, California). With prices, as you no doubt know, North American Yammy dealers are prohibited by the company from talking money on the internet or by phone. However, there is no such proscription against PW participation here. I supposed we'd have to ask the dealers themselves to find out.

First, there are quite a few dealers who regularly post here. That said, one major reason is exemplified by this thread.

In my case, I have a limited amount of time in which to read PW and post. Often I read a thread that is going "astray" due to post of amatuers of others who have little experience. Correcting the many mis-statements or false assumptions is often not worth the time.

I have PM'd several posters who have a habit of posting unfounded answers or who IMO inject themselves into conversations with no real contribution. I usually suggest that they wait for the more experienced members to respond and, if necessary, they can fill any voids.

PW has a very strong, diverse and experienced active membership. While any piano enthusiast is welcome to comment on any thread, PW would be more "on purpose", in many cases, if the more experienced member were given an opportunity to respond before the amatuers chimed in.

Jiv,

It's possible that you and Raffleman are overlooking the importance of the distribution network in determining which Yamaha products are offered in the US and which are not.

Yamaha has so many acoustic piano products that it probably makes sense to pick and choose what will work out best in different markets. For example, Chris has access to the B series from Indonesia, but not the T series from China. In my own estimation, he wins and we in the US lose on that one , but that's just one opinion.

I'm sure that if there were a general outcry from US dealers deploring the lack of SU-7 availability, that Yamaha's US distribution network would take it under consideration. However, I doubt that anything like that exists.

Chris,

This forum used to have a resident Yamaha veteran, Marty Flyn, who was vigilant in setting the record straight on Yamaha issues. He straightened me out on an occasion or two even though we had an open and cordial back-channel relationship.

Marty retired from the industry and made a complete career change. No one individual has filled the very large void Marty left, probably because Marty's vigilance required a lot of effort. There was frustration ass well for the very reasons that Steve Cohen and Terminator have alluded to.

Marty was a great asset here and a passionate professional. He was also a very visible defender of brands he did not sell whenever he felt they were being shortchanged here. If you're still reading here, props to you Marty!

If you think about it Chris, the same lack of participation of which you speak applies to Steinway as well. Perhaps there's some relationship in play between being a market leader and having a minimal presence here.

Do you still stock the SU-7?

William

Agreed, Marty was a true pro and prolific with it - quantity and quality and there may well be something in your correlation of market leaders and minimal presence on PW. Forum marketing may be a necessity for the up-and-comings, but I suppose the really big boys concentrate their marketing efforts elsewhere.

As for the SU7, yes, we have a new one on the floor. It'll be interesting to see if Yamaha ever unveil a 'CF' upright. I didn't think they could surpass the S series grands, but they did so convincingly, so let's wait and see.

OK.......So on my next trip to England I will pop in and play at he SU7 at Chris's place. Simple enough.

I can't speak for John (Rafterman) but this is not so for me, William. I have been aware of the importance of the distribution network and decisions Yamaha needs to make regarding different markets and what to carry in each. I agree that they've probably made their determination based on some careful thinking and the U.S. market would likely not support many SU7 sales. (I consider myself lucky that they're willing to sell Silent Pianos, which aren't exactly hot sellers on this side of the Atlantic or Pacific.)

There isn't. Jeff Tasch, of Grand Piano Haus, contributes fairly frequently. He just posted pictures of his Yamaha CFX selection in NYC the other day.

I don't find it weird at all. Don't you remember what it's like being 14? Young kids, especially musicians, are really inquisitive, and that's a good thing, even if they don't always have the right answer. Furthermore, I think all this talk about age that has been going on in the forums lately is arrogant, annoying, and counterproductive. I've found myself on the receiving end more than once, and am frankly fed up with it.

He reads the forum a lot. Archives, too, probably. I wouldn't be surprised if he searches for answers when someone new comes in with a question. Don't underestimate youngsters. If anything he's just trying to be helpful. I think turandot gives good advice (you just gotta imagine him giving the advice in the most friendly, supportive, fatherly way...).

I wasn't aware of all the talk about age on the forums lately beethoven986.
I think youthful enthusiasm and inquisitiveness are great qualities at any age.

My point in the posting I made, was that I don't think it's fair to those seeking piano advice to receive guesses and potential misinformation.

Rotom has as much right to participate here as anyone else and I encourage him to contribute from his own experience and knowledge.