Hello to everybody on these forums and thank you for the education you have provided as I have been lurking for the past several months.

We live in NYC in an apartment and are going to be buying a piano primarily for our daughter who is going to be four (neither my wife or I play). We have looked at many pianos and we are now down to four choices. We hope to make a decision in the next few days. I do not think there is a right or wrong choice but are there other ways to look at the decision we are not considering?

Our building has a fairly small elevator and narrow stairs so we are limiting ourselves to smaller pianos around 5'6" or under.

1) Chinese grand- Ritmuller 160 or Hailun 161. Perfectly nice instruments, nice sound, not a huge investment if our daughter doesn't take to the piano.

2) AvantGrand N3- Compact, low maintenance, volume control and headphone support. All nice features for an apartment. But, there is the question about starting to learn the piano on a digital even one that is trying very hard to replicate an acoustic. I think both my wife and I appreciate the N3 as a very sensible choice but feel drawn to an acoustic instrument

3) Steinway S- There is certainly a question about the value and sound of this piano but we really like a few that we have heard. The M which might have fewer compromises across the register I think will be too much for our apartment - the American sound (S&S, M&H) seems quite bold to our ears to start with. We've seen some nicely rebuilt S models and in NYC we are fortunate to have access to dealers who seem to have quite able rebuild/restore shops. The most expensive choice by a fair bit and probably the least rational choice but one that tugs at the heart for somebody living in NY.

4) Estonia 168- We really like the sound. We love the looks. Arguably at least as nice a piano as the S&S, some would argue nicer. The question on the Estonia is that for just a bit more money we could get the Steinway. The Estonia feels like a choice not to decide between the heart (get the Steinway) and the head (get one of the Chinese grands).

So these are our choices and how we are thinking about them. Any thoughts about how we are framing the decision are appreciated.

Regards- Jeremy

Get the Estonia

Hi Kzdad,

I think you are right in that none of your choices are really bad choices.

Let me see if I can help a bit, although I suspect I might further confuse things.

1 the Chinese pianos are certainly more than fine for a 4 year old if the actions are set up correctly. We recently got a nearly brand new Hailun grand on trade ( one month old ) and while it is a very nice piano, because it had no prep from the dealer, it was very hard to play. After addressing this, the piano plays very nicely, but still just a bit on the heavy side in a range of correct, if that makes sense. I cannot speak from personal experience on the Ritmuller, but in general, Chinese pianos need good attention from dealers to work well. Of course, I say the same thing about German pianos and Japanese pianos and American pianos, but the Chinese ones can have special needs......... So, if you are getting either of these pianos from an excellent dealer who focuses on doing very good pre delivery prep work and follow up maintenance, either of these pianos will probably work quite well. The Hailun in particular has a very nice soft hammer that may work well in keeping the sound down.

2 We also just got a nearly new AvantGrande on trade. It is a fantastic digital piano, and the action is a real piano action which feels terrific. There is no doubting that it is a digital in sound ( although exceptional ) and expression (limited). Digitals have many uses and if you start your daughter on an Avantgrand, even if eventualy she needs a real piano, you will probably want to keep the AvantGrand for its versatility. The Avantgrand we just received plays very nicely, but again, it is slightly on the heavy side in a range of correct. The action in an Avantgrand can be regulated.

3 I like the Steinway S more than most around here and a good one will work very nice for you for your purpose.

4 I think the Estonia 168 is better than a Steinway S in pretty much every objective way and the Estonia blows away the Steinway in terms of fit and finish and design. The Estonia 168 is a more powerful piano than the Steinway S.

Acoustic pianos are generally louder than what people expect, which may be a factor in a NY apartment. A competant dealer or piano tech should be able to help you with this should it become a problem.

No matter what, I think your daughter is really lucky!

It's difficult to add anything to what Keith has posted here. He is being exceptionally fair in his assessments.

Personally, I don't think the transition from the Avant to an acoustic at a later time would be at all difficult, but I would consider Keith's remarks about actions at the heavy end of the 'correct' (acceptable) range. When a child is 6 or 7, there should be no difficulty growing into and adapting to any action that falls anywhere in the acceptable range. At that age, muscles are strengthening naturally. But your child is considerably younger. It's smart to start with every possible advantage.

I'd also pay attention to Keith's comments on hammer felt. In your apartment situation with a beginner doing daily practice, you don't want a piano that broadcasts a loud character.

Personally, I'd go for one of the Chinese because the financial resources I could afford to risk solely on the prospects of a beginning child are limited. But that's me and not you. I'd insist on prep though, even voicing down the hammers if necessary.

Keith, when you say that the AG can be regulated, please tell us what you mean.

Put another way, suppose you or Shaun were going to be restricted to playing on an AG for a couple of months -- no acoustic.

What would you do to optimize the AG for your own use, and why?

I miss my N2, by the way, though I'm certainly fairly consoled.

The AG has a real piano action, so it can be regulated ( I am assuming since we haven't taken it apart) like a regular piano. I am not talking about customizing it.

If I had to play on an AG and nothing else for a couple of months, as long as the keys all went up and down and everything worked right, I'd leave it alone. I would use it as a tool for learning notes and timing and I would use my memory of how an acoustic piano responds and my imagination to work on being expressive.

Thanks to everybody for their views, especially to Keith for his particularly thoughtful reply. I will post back once we reach a decision if people are interested.