i gave my 100 year old chappell piano to restoration
today i went to the piano workshop and he said my piano cant be tuned to 440Hz but it can be tuned to 415Hz does that mean i cannot enjoy nice tone of the piano does it effect to music composed by yanni ? cos i like to learn and play music of him ???

what to do?//

you won't be able to play along with other instruments tuned to 440.. but Yanni should be no problem. If you are playing with a recording, that might be a problem.. The pitch has dropped... that's all.

i bet your piano is pretty neat. there comes a time though, when money invested, might be better invested in a different piano.. That is something to think about.. For instance, you would not want to invest $7000.00 in restoring this old of a piano.

There is no reason why a 100 year old piano, properly restored, cannot be tuned to A-440. Pianos were overbuilt in that period, and it would have been no lower than A-435 when it was built.

You’ve got my curiosity is up… why did the restorer say it could not be tuned to A440? Loose tuning pins, cracked bridges, cracked soundboard, and fragile cast-iron harp? Or, just his/her opinion?

Either way, A415 is not the end of the world… just a little flat.

Good luck with it.

Rick

Rick, A415 is much more than just a little flat. It's about a 1/2 step flat. This tuning can be used as a compromise, because it still fits over the template of normal A440 tuning. Ensemble playing being possible when one instrument transposes 1/2 step.

As someone who does technical work on pianos you should know better Rick. I am surprised you would write this kind of nonsense. As Dave correctly pointed out, A-415 is around 100 cents flat. The piano will not sound as it should at such a low pitch.

A-415 was used centuries ago, and may be appropriate for harpsichord tunings for early music performances, but not for pianos. By 100 years ago, A-440 was the norm.

I suspect the tuning pins on the Chappell are too loose and will not hold the full tension of being at the piano's proper pitch, or perhaps the strings are corroded and are prone to breaking. A piano cannot be considered "restored" if it cannot be tuned to its proper pitch.

A little flat, a lot flat, nonsense?

Jurgen, I’m not going to argue with you. Your knowledge of pianos is way superior to mine. Yet, you seem to look for some reason to try and belittle or humiliate me every chance you get; if not me, someone else. I guess it makes you look good to make others look bad.

Whatever...

Rick

Not at all, Rick. No need to get upset or defensive. I am trying to get accurate and relevant information to the owner of the "restored" piano. I think if you had just spent a few thousand on a questionable instrument repair, you too would appreciate correct information on which to base your decisions.

Bad and wrong information should be corrected - no?

In the interest of the forum and everyone participating, people without the knowledge and experience to provide useful and accurate information should be a little less eager to jump in with their assumptions and opinions. This at least is the opinion shared by many knowledgeable and experienced contributors as well as industry heavyweights. This has come up in recent threads such as this one:


Yamaha SU7 thread

Well,
To get back to the original posting here, the very first thing I would do is ask the person who makes this claim why the instrument will not tune to A440.

This is the person who has inspected the instrument. We can’t do this over the internet; what you will receive here is a lot of presumption as to why the instrument cannot function at mainstream pitch.

If you mention that the instrument has been given over for restoration, it is not clear what exactly is being restored.

Okay, I stand corrected… saying that A415HZ is a little flat was irresponsible of me; I should have said it was a lot flat. Although the definition of a little flat or a lot flat is subjective, I guess.


Do you mean to tell me that there is some consensus and agreement among the experts and pros here? Wow, that’s a new one on me.

Rick

Agreed, but when I hear "restoration" without any other specifics, I assume that the instrument will afterward be functioning as designed.

Rick, in the interest of not de-railing this thread - why don't you PM me about your separate issue?

The question I’ve not yet seen is this: Just what does this “restoration” consist of. What work is being done?

I realize there are varying definitions of the phrase “piano restoration” but surely there must be a bottom line. By most any definition I’m aware of piano restoration means putting the piano back into something resembling its original condition. At least functionally, if not aesthetically. I should think this would include some work on the tuning pins and pinblock. Even if this is an authentic historical restoration using the original tuning pins something would be done to ensure adequate tuning pin torque to hold a tuning. Would it not also include replacing the strings if the originals were so weakened that they could no longer hold the strain of tension at pitch?

Unless the piano was originally designed to function at a pitch of A-415 Hz—unlikely, I should think, with in instrument just 100 years old—I’d be asking the “restorer” just what work is being done for my money and why, exactly, the piano can’t be tuned to what would have been standard pitch at the time the piano was built.

ddf

I agree with all of the posters here.

Tune it to A-440 and see what happens!

Not sure what the limiting factor is, but I do know that some piano techs are just chicken.

A piano needs to be at concert pitch, or it is not a worthwhile musical instrument.

I have raised pitch on pianos that had strings that were brown with caking rust and not a single string broke.

I was taught a very simple rule regarding raising pitch. It is the "3 string rule". Go ahead and raise pitch, and if 3 strings break, STOP. In over 25 years of tuning, I can count on one hand how many times this has happened. It might be only one or two times ever. What mostly happens is that the pitch raise is never attempted in the first place due to fear.

Also I would like to add to Rickster's point about pitch that as an aural tuner I don't even use cents and really can't tell you how many cents equal what amount of pitch difference.

There are a few late 1800's scale designs based on A435.

All quality pianos built in London (Chappell is one of them) since the late 1800's were designed to stand at 440 and much higher.

There were two standard concert pitches at that time here, 439 and 455-7 (at 68*F)

Bear in mind they were also built for export to the tropics where they can become alarmingly sharp with no lasting Ill effects during the rainy/humid season.

Vibavi,

Let me see if I've got this right. You're from Sri Lanka. And going by your first post it looks like you bought an old Chappel piano and got it restored for 850 dollars which included restringing, replacing action, cut and polishing, replacing keys, and tuning? You love the piano, but you aren't a very good player? And now the restorer is afraid to wind this thing up past A415? And you want to know if you can play along with yanni?

Well, first off, I’m guessing here, but you’ve paid for the work, the piano is tuned, and you like the sound? But are only concerned about the pitch? And I’m guessing the restorer is afraid that spinning this thing up past A415 is going to crater it? He doesn’t trust that last 4 or 5 thousand pounds for the A440 Nirvana express? Or is he somehow convinced that a baroque pitch will better manifest the piano’s abilities? It would be nice to know but, either way, it hardly matters because after a while, the ear hears what the ear hears. You have to remember, it’s only a hundred cents flat if you are comparing to 440.

And a semitone flat ain’t that bad. I’ve played some pianos. How many tens of thousands of pianos are being played that haven’t been tuned for years? A tuned 415 pitch would be an improvement. It might sound a little tubby, who knows, it might sound mellow and about right. As for playing with higher pitched instruments, simple enough to fix, just move your hands up one key.

I’m also wondering about the price. Around here you can barely get a haircut for 850, much less a cut and polish. So, I’m hoping that this guy in Sri Lanka used fairly new strings and he replaced the action with maybe something from this century. And sometimes you just have to look past the numbers, look past the spread sheet, so to speak, and adapt.

So, of course you can enjoy your piano. After a while you’ll even get used it. And, it will not affect any of the music composed by yanni. Trust me. And yanni won't mind. Wasn't he the guy who played the pan flute or something, did a few rounds with Laura Barkely? Seriously, new age music I can do without.

Mike