Could someone rate the nocturnes by Chopin in order of difficulty from easiest to hardest? And the Impromptus by Schubert?

Thanks

According to Trinity

Not approved for any diploma
-Nocturne Op15/3 in G minor
-Nocturne Op32/1 in B major(currently on ABRSM Grade 8 syllabus)
-Nocturne Op37/1 in G minor
-Nocturne Op72/1 in E minor(I think this has been on a ABRSM Grade 8 syllabus)

ATCL approved.
-Nocturne Op9/1 in B flat minor
-Nocturne Op9/3 in B major
-Nocturne Op15/2 in F sharp major
-Nocturne Op32/2 in A flat Major
-Nocturne Op 37/2 in G major
-Nocturne Op48/2 in F sharp minor
-Nocturne Op55/1 in F minor( has been on ABRSM grade 8)
-Nocturne Op62/1 in B major
-Nocturne Op62/2 in E major

LTCL approved
-Nocturne Op15/1 in F major
-Nocturne Op27/1 in C sharp Minor
-Nocturne Op27/2 in D flat major
-Nocturne Op48/1 in C minor
Trinity dont seem to include the Op posth C minor and C sharp minor Nocturnes or the Op9/2 but i woudn't of thought they were diploma level.

However I think there is quite a gap in difficuly between Nocturnes such as Op9 No.1/2 and Op9/3.

Schubert Impromptus Trinity lists

ATCL
-Impromptu Op90/2 in E flat major
-Impromptu Op90/3 in G flat major
-Impomptu Op142 /1 in F minor

LTCL
-Impromptu Op142/3 in B flat major

I would of thought of all the Impromptus The Op142/2 is the least challenging and the Op142/4 the most challenging. I think the Op90/1 would be on a similar level to the above Op 90 Impromptus. I think the Op90/4 is the least challenging of the Op90 but consideraly harder than Op142/2

This isn't an actual ranking but I hope this helps

Try playing through them and decide.

Franz - Seems like we've already been down this road with you a couple of times since last December as it relates to the Impromptus. What is different about this particular request?

As for the Nocturnes - why don't you try this:

1) Get a copy of a book that contains ALL of the Nocturnes.

2) Find recordings (by reputable artists) of each Nocturne as posted in You tube

3) Listen to the recordings and follow the score

It should be pretty clear to you which Nocturnes are the "easiest" and which are the most "difficult." Then perhaps you can compile your own general list of "easiest to hardest."

That said, it seems most folks generally agree that Nocturnes Opus 9 No. 2, Opus 15 No. 3 and Opus 37 No. 1 are the most accessible. ALL of the Nocturnes are worth learning. If you've never played one, consider starting with the Opus 37 No.1.

+1

I don't get why we are always rating pieces. If someone isn't capable of figuring out if a piece is on their level then they probably shouldn't play it.

carey :

I do wonder why Franz keeps coming up with the same request, albeit in a theme and variations format. The number of times we have tried to respond with suggestions that imply that the question isn't always a viable one nor one that can be easily responded to, seems not only to fall on deaf ears but we are rarely acknowledged for our efforts. The last time this came up re the Schubert impromptus, Franz already had an answer from his teacher, but he claimed she was "wrong" and he wanted us to give him the "right" answer.

While I don't like to discourage potential interest in repertoire nor squelch an interchange of ideas, I don't know where we go with this. Having been down this road before with Franz, I feel that he seems overly concerned with difficulty or relative difficulty of works to the exclusion of almost anything else. At least, that's the impression I have.

So, Franz, perhaps you can tell us why (it seems that) you are so preoccupied with how difficult a piece is, why you don't seem (in one instance, at least) to trust your teacher's judgment, and why you can't work out some of these answers for yourself.

Regards,

Do what I do. Don't worry about what someone else thinks about the difficulty of a piece. Just start working on it. If it's too hard, pick something else.

because i am insecure and always worried i guess

Insecure about what though? That you'll pick a piece "rated" in a place you think you're at, and find that it's too difficult? Too easy?

The best way to know for sure is to try playing them. Ratings are often meaningless. Take myself, for example: I have always been exceptionally gifted when it comes to octaves. I can play them very easily, very fast, and accurately; I'm just lucky. So, I learned Alkan's Allegro Barbaro with no problem, whereas, for some people it is a technical nightmare. However, I often struggle with pieces that would be considered "easier."

So, the relative difficulty of pieces doesn't matter that much unless you become preoccupied with always knowing where you stand. Why not learn pieces that you like? I just learned Ondine in it's entirety, but have absolutely no desire to learn Le Gibet or Scarbo (even though I love them). It would just be too much for me at this point.

Pick a piece from your list that you really enjoy, and work at it for a while. If after a while you feel like you are getting nowhere, keep trying! If you really feel lost, change direction. Assigning numbers or degrees of difficulty to pieces becomes a crutch. The way I see it, you want to play pieces in your "ballpark." This doesn't mean level this or that, but just a general area of difficulty.

For instance, Fur Elise is obviously much easier than the Waldstein Sonata, and I know personally that my "ballpark" for Beethoven is somewhere in the middle, maybe leaning a bit towards the harder stuff.

You've played some legitimate pieces, so I think you should be able to judge the difficulty of pieces relative to your ability. We all want to see each other succeed in our goals here, so I'd like to see you commit to something that you enjoy, and work at it!

Well, that's a very honest answer, albeit, a bit incomplete. So, ask yourself, worried about WHAT?

Gosh. This sure sounds familiar.

I couldn't resist. I'm now interested as to why Franz only posts when he wants pieces rated.

I explained earlier. I am worried and insecure, and I have no idea why.

... and how does grading or difficulty rating of pieces address the issue of worry and insecurity?

The music for all the pieces you've been asking about is readily available if you don't already have it, and all you have to do is sit down and read through the music to find out if it's difficult enough - or too difficult - for you. Is our "rating" going to influence you one way or another?

In at least one of your posts you deny your teacher's "difficulty rating" of a piece; why should we be any more discerning than your teacher who knows you and who knows what you might need and be able to approach?

Regards,

Franz, you seem to find it difficult to trust your own judgement and also whether your teacher assesses your capabilities accurately. Firstly, we all suffer from this to an extent: how do I really know that I will be able to master a new piece; will I discover passage(s) that defeat me?

For myself at present, a few bars of the Appassionata. I have left it, picked it up again, made some progress, left it again etc. My teacher, in my teens, set me onto the first movement of the Hammerklavier. This sonata will always be beyond me. That's OK.

So the only way to learn how to trust our own judgement is to select at the easiest level: give ourselves the best chance of success. When and if we realise something is too difficult, OK, we learn why - leads maybe to specific technical exercises, or other pieces with similar dificulties but at an easier level. If we drop a piece, no big deal. We have learned something and can build on that learning.

Also, even if we are frustrated at not being able to get a piece or passage up to speed we can still enjoy the music to a degree. When I was practising Chopin's 2nd Ballade - which I knew well from listening - at a very slow speed, tears streamed down my face at the beautiful sounds (even played badly) under my fingers. I have still not mastered that piece to any significant standard. It doesn't matter. That practice time was a gift to me.

No-one can teach us how to trust our own judgement, but if we learn from and let go of our failures and enjoy and build on our sucesses, even partial sucesses, that trust will grow.

Well said !!!!!