I disagree. In some sense we are like children, and we need to learn the same things that children need to learn. Part of the reason for failures in lessons is when those lessons start off too sophisticated, without having that in mind. In regards to your questions, I consider myself a good student and have been told that I am, but when I took my first lessons I could not have articulated a sensible answer.
- Why do I want to learn to play the instrument? I just did. I remember looking at the violin on the orchestra chart, and thinking that this instrument has an infinite range of textures and intonations. I don't know if I could have put that into words. Had I tried, would it have been understood? I can clearly remember the helplessness and frustration when I was a student of not being able to put things into words. I see this all the time in the forum. Some of the things that bother you are actually struggles. We end up saying things that are beside the point in order to get at the point, and if you take us literally you will miss the boat.

I contend that the way to know a student's potential is to work with that student for a period of time. You may have to whittle away initial misperceptions as you go on in the first weeks. It is quite similar to a small child.


Some teachers I know also like to conduct an informal “ear screening”, to determine if the potential student has innate ability to distinguish BY EAR between higher and lower pitches, faster and slower tempi, louder and softer attacks, staccato and legato sounds.

Obviously, if the student has been playing for a while, then the teacher is going to evaluate in more detail.

Either way, at this point, the competent teacher has enough information to answer the all-important question, “Is this potential student someone I can help musically? Do I want to?" And, at that point, even with the most elaborate plan of attack, with the best thought-out goals, having a beautiful, over-arching lesson plan, with a grand vision of how this student will progress, IN EVERY SINGLE CASE, the teacher must simply “start teaching and see what develops”.

Ok, I see this, but with a caution since these are the things that the teacher develops in a student. If you get students at the next level up from absolute beginner, then someone else has already done this part.

Yes.

Agreed.

Well, if basic communication skills are not there, either on the part of the student, OR from the teacher, then ALL progress is going to be painfully slow, if progress there is. I am certain I covered that:




I agree completely - getting a grasp of a student’s actual potential requires regular, on-going personal contact. However, simply deciding whether or not to “take on” this potential student can be determined in a much simpler manner.

Ed

Really? I take the view that anyone with fingers, ears, and a brain is "equipped". Maybe not to be a professional piano player, but that isn't everyone's goal on this forum. And if you are only talking about development of high-level piano players, maybe this discussion doesn't belong in the ABF forum.

I'm with MaryBee here. I certainly know dancers that someone with an attitude like LoPresti's would have decided, I suspect, might as well go garden But they've become dancers any way. Good for them. I can think of one that now dances 3 or 4 times a week, from swing to Scottish country to contras. Is he a professional dancer? Not by a long shot. I'm not even sure that after all this time he's as good as I was when I first started and wasn't practising But he can hold his own at the recreational level at which he dances, and I dance with him a couple of times a month. I don't think it's any different for piano players.

If he were a piano student, are there some piano teachers for whom he would not be a good fit? I'm sure there are, for whatever reason they might not want to teach him.

Does it mean he'd be better off gardening instead of playing piano? Not that I can tell.

Are there novice dancers and novice piano players who might eventually self-select out of either? Yes, there are. But it's their decision. LoPresti can self-select out of teaching them, but LoPresti can't, IMNSHO, select for them whether they continue to play piano. Only they can.

So here in the ABF we don't generally make that judgment

Perhaps if LoPresti is so turned off by their questions he can self-select out of responding to them

I'd certainly respect that choice.

Cathy

Fair enough.

I'm a teacher, and I TOTALLY agree with you. So in spite of teaching I must be equally uneducated. Because in MY world "adults" have goals that continually change. If I got treated, as a student, the way I hear teachers suggesting adults should be judged/treated, I would quit before even getting started.

As a teacher I believe that at least half the reason why students fail is because of us, the teachers...

Although I care about the other things that have been mentioned, this part isn't quite finished for me.

This comes to the heart of what I've been trying to say. I would go so far as to say that instead of assuming that we understand what the other party is saying, we should assume that we will miss each other in the beginning. The sophistication that we adults have in comparison to kids will mask that we are in unfamiliar territory, may not have the lingo. There has to be an awareness of this. If you start off with this awareness, and make a two-sided effort then it has a greater chance.

Yes, you did write previously:

but I suspect that you are a couple of steps beyond what I'm talking about. Otherwise I agree. I can't explain it better. But it's embedded on those two main issues that I have tried to address. And it comes down to what you have just concluded above.