Basically a normal tuning but perhaps at a higher level of perfection than the usual in home tuning? Is there anything typically done in a concert tuning that wouldn't be done in a regular in home tuning?

Not when I do it. I always try to tune to the best of my abilities.

Just curious: how long does it take you (personally) to tune a typical nice grand?

Thanks!

Concert tuning has to be really precise. I don't really do many in home tunings and most of my tunings are for concerts or recording so A440, A441 or A442 has to be exactly accurate. I tune the same pianos several times a week and sometimes several times a day. When you have the opportunity to do this you get much more solid results than going to a home and having to change the pitch and fine tune in one visit. Most of my days I arrive to find that A is 439.93 or 440.89 and neither of these is acceptable for concerts. I also almost always do some regulating or voicing at the same time just to keep things consistent or to make tonal changes per request from the artist. Unison tuning has to be dead on clean. Hammers have to be freshly shaped and fitted to the strings for tuning to be really precise and all the shanks have to be travelled and spaced properly for voicing to be even. It's a never ending battle done in the silence of a good hall, hopefully without someone vacuuming or setting up other equipment.

It depends on how far out of tune it is. For most concerts, the piano starts close, and I am given about an hour. In households with a fair amount of neglect, it can take twice as long.

When I first started learning to tune my pianos it took me about 8 hours from start to finish. I finally got that time frame down to about 4 hours and then to about 2 hours, for a compete 88 note tuning/clean-up. I’ve gained a lot respect for highly skilled piano tuners because it is not quick and easy to obtain a really good result. Even more so for a concert tuning, I would imagine.

Also, and this is just my less-experienced educated guess, I’m thinking that really fine quality pianos, like concert pianos, are not as difficult to tune as lesser quality pianos. I know my Yamaha C7 tunes better than any piano I’ve owned.

Rick

The main difference, is concert pianos are usually mostly in tune and on pitch and stable. The tuner then worries about precision and stability.

A home piano is usually neglected, and the time has to be spent to get it on pitch and in tune. It will not be as stable.

Hope that helps.

Steve

Greetings,
A concert tuning is one in which you always leave time to check the pedals. One in which the importance of the tuning is Unisons,stability, octaves, temperament. A tuning in which the strings of C88 get just as much time as the strings on C40.
On the stage, the tuning may need some extra stretch to be competitive in a concerto situation, or less for perhaps chamber music.
Concert tunings require slightly less care than tunings in recording studios, since the unisons will never be heard as cleanly in the hall as they are through a $ 4,000 microphone. I am talking about the condition of the unison when the effective beat rate is non-existent, but the phase differences create that long, whining, edge to the note. (something on the order of one beat every 10 seconds or so; not heard as a beat, but rather, as a voicing issue.) A very small deviation from totally dead on can often leave more sustain in the note than otherwise.
However, stability is important because a note that lets go in a recording studio stops the session until it is fixed, the concert just goes on with the howler in place. Concert tunings get perhaps 15% heavier test notes to insure the unisons are stable.
A concert tuning will include checking every note with the una corda, since double notes are a real embarrassment to everyone involved. And unless the instrument is perfect, a concert tuning will always involve voicing at least the two worst notes on the piano.
Oh, and don't forget the stress.................
Regards,

A concert tuning is one in which you always leave time to check the pedals.

I'm glad to hear that! So many times I have to lie on the floor and adjust the pedal myself.

We can't do a concert tuning on your "average home piano" like a Lester spinet, a Wurlitzer spinet or console, a Kimball piano, a Baldwin Acrosonic, most consoles and verticals, because they are not built to be concert tuned and therefore cannot be tuned in that way. They are most certainly not built like a good quality 9' concert grand.

We do the best that we can with what we have along with how much time we have in which to do it on every piano but, not a concert type tuning every single time.

Most tuners have a different home tuning than true concert tuning for obvious reasons. But, again, we do what we can, with what we have to work on, on that particular day of the week.

By the same token, concert pianos are prepped with the utmost care AND expense and are prepped OFTEN. Not to many home owners are going to want to spend that kind of money prepping their pianos 8 times + in one week like we often do with concert work on the same piano or pay to touch up the regulation each time we tune it like we do on concert pianos on their home piano, voicing each time etc. Not that often anyway...

Hey Guys! Don't forget the bench. How many times have we spent almost as much time trying to get the squeak, click, scrunch, or pop out of the bench. That of course becomes the tech's problem for each performance as well.

Thanks. I am referring to personally owned nice grands of course. So would you say such a piano that is tuned annually is among those that take you about an hour?

I rolled under a piano today while doing a concert tuning and tightened the leg bolts on a grand today just for that very reason Sally, to stop the creaking when the piano moved.

It depends. Some pianos are quite badly out of tune after a few months, while others are fairly well in tune after a few years.

A little anecdote: I was in Cologne visiting the WDR (West German Broadcasting Corp. - radio and TV). A good friend is one of the three piano technicians there. He was giving me a tour of the basement where they keep their fleet of mainly Steinway Ds used in broadcasts, recitals, concerts and recordings.

He "introduced" me to the various pianos: "This is our rocket, mostly used for concertos, it's an amazing piano. Over here are two Ds that pianists usually select for chamber music.... over here ... - oh, don't touch that one! That one is in SO BAD SHAPE, it will take me the better part of a day to get it sounding decently again. It hasn't been touched for just about two weeks!"

Jerry,

I don't quite understand your post. "Not built to be concert tuned"?

From what I've read in this thread, concert tunings take extra care and diligence in unisons, stability, octaves/stretch, temperament, pedals, una corda, voicing, fixing squeaks, etc.

Which of the above (except perhaps the una corda shift) is not applicable to a modest console in a customer's home? Why should they deserve any less care and diligence while tuning/voicing/regulating, just because of the way they are designed or built?

Should the wheel alignment, brakes and engine service on a little Chevvy compact not be done with the same care (dedication) as on a big Cadillac limousine?

Hi Mark,

Well, that's kind of hard to explain to an amateur. No offense. Go out and tune one once in 5 more years and then tune a Steinway D and you'll see what I mean. There simply is no comparison to the two.

A Kimball spinet, for example, will be riddled with false beats and the scale design is nothing compared to a 9' concert instrument. Would they use a Kimball spinet for a professional concert? Of course not. These pianos tune nothing like a concert grand. It's kind of like comparing the smallest, cheapest car on the market to the best, most expensive car on the market. There really is no comparison. While yes, the two need oil changes, tires and the like, the cheap car will never compare to the more expensive one and will break down much more often.

I didn't say they get less care, I said they are not built to be concert tuned, therefore, they cannot be.

The answer to your question is because a concert tuning cannot be put on a piano like that no matter how hard one might try.

Well, I have tuned Helpinstills and CP60-80s for concerts, and they are either spinets or have scales close to them. It is a challenge! A concert grand is a piece of cake, in comparison.

Well, so have I, but concert technicians know what we mean.... There is no comparison between them.

One of the best compliments I have ever had was for tuning a CP60 for a show. They said it never sounded better.

Funny! Mine was when I tuned a Bose and a D together for duet concert.

I think there is a little confusion here, on the difference between a concert tuning and a concert grand ! My take on a concert tuning is one where we make every effort to tune the instrument as perfectly as possible .... bearing in mind that there will always be falseness to some degree to contend with. Generally Steinway Ds are pretty good, as are Bosendorfer imperials .. but even they often have falseness to a much minor degree. The other difference is paying attention to stability - i.e making sure that after you have tuned a note, you can't budge the unisons by playing FF .... If you can't knock it out of tune, then the pianist won't be able to either.

Yes, while I and many here are lucky to have the chance to work on the "Rolls Royces" of the piano world, I, and I expect many others, also do a great deal of high class concert tuning on more humble pianos.... Yamaha, Kawai, Bechstein, Bluthner etc., that are not prepped and cared for in the same way as the Ds or Imperials ... but nevertheless, they do get tunings of exactly the same high quality .... with the same attention to detail for a solid tunings that are not going to go out at the first sign of FF!

Concert tuning = precision work ... somewhat more brutal when doing it than in private house pianos, to ensure stability. This can be done on just about any reasonable quality piano, be it grand or upright, and isn't merely reserved for the venues that can use full concert grands.

Concert techs need to be able to meet the demands of highly skilled players. Sounds simple, but there is much more than tuning involved.

My tuner stayed here for almost two hours for the free tuning of my upright, but she also did other things, like cleaning the keys.

That is for sure! You have to be part psychologist, sometimes.

If you read the original question you'll see is was "What is a Concert Tuning" not "What is a Concert Technician"

Thank you, this answer makes much more sense to me (no offense, Jerry), because it describes what's special about the tuning, not the instrument.

No problem Mark, it was a good explanation.

If we read the rest of it though, he added Which is where basically where I got my answer from.


(YES)

(YES a finer tuning and LOTS more voicing and much more perfection in regulation.) Anyone who claims to do the same tuning on a Kimball spinet is not being truthful about it. They will put on the best tuning that piano will take, but, does it compare to a concert tuning on a Bose or D? No way. it cannot and will not because it cannot be done..

What's with this B.S..ing crap Jerry ? Is there any need for this kind of childishness ?

Yeah, you're right John, I changed it.

What I see here is some people trying to prove that they are doing concert level tuning (concert quality tuning) on every single piano out there. Consoles, spinets, whatever. That's where the "baloney" is coming from. I've been doing concert tunings for my whole career. I do know the difference and so do you. Compare your tuning on a Kimball spinet, to your tuning on a 9' concert grand and there will be no comparison. That's my biggest point. You cannot do a concert "quality type tuning" on an inferior instrument by comparison to a 9' concert grand. They will most definitely sound different. While I will do the best job that is possible for any piano, most of them will not compare to the sound, playability and quality and of course the total outcome of the tuning on 9' concert grand.

Now, I think I shall bow out of this conversation for now. My right shoulder and neck is KILLING me. Now, is not the time for me to continue this.

Enjoy yourselves.