I am about to buy either a "like new" Sauter Delta 2006 or a new Shigeru Kawai SK2 grand piano (prices in the high 30's) both the tone and the actions of these individual instruments are to my liking. I would like to have a player system installed in the piano, without recording. I am not a professional and my hearing is not what it used to be, this piano will be in a home environment. I live in the Los Angeles area.

Would a PianoDisc system be reasonable? I have heard that there are problems with WIFI errors on the IQ system's that cause less than optimum results. Can the system be hardwired? Would one piano work better with the player over the other?

I hope these questions make sense. Thanks in advance for your comments.

Jodi,
You should look into a Live Performance LX system. http://live-performance.com
It has they best playback available. It costs a little more but your listening pleasure will be worth the extra expense. There is too much I would like to say about it here. Click on the link for information and google "reviews" to hear from others. Both the Sauter and Shigeru are excellent candidates for this system.

I am glad I was not the first one to post a positive ....I have been extolling the virtues of this wonderful system since its debut in 2007.

I have the first one on the market, and I can second David's enthusiasm for the LX! The quality of the playback is superb. High-resolution at it's best, bar none, for any brand piano,

I decided to become an LX installer after hearing GPM's Mason and Hamlin BB with an LX. They really are that good.

The reason to go with Pianodisc would be if you really don't care about the improved playback, and want the music selection that Pianodisc offers. Pianodisc began encrypting their music a few years ago in the Silentdrive Plus format. Any of the new music they sell is in that format. It seems to me that they made a business decision to leverage their music catalog to get people to buy their systems. The LX will play any unencrypted music. Older Pianodisc music is unencrypted.

This is topic I am very interested for. I was present when a Piano Disc installer from Germany, Mr. Dietz was installing a Piano Disc system in a Petrof grand, 12 years ago. I didn"t like the fact that he had to do a large hole on the key bed, and he also told me that running of that system shortens the life of hammers very much. Now, I have to repair that Piano Disc system, an old one with floppy disc, on a Knabe grand which had it installed already when it came as donation to a Music Academy I work for. If someone here is familiar with that old system, please let me know, because I have some questions. Thanks.

Bojan,
You need to find a installer that is familiar with the system. It might an older "blue board" system and If you need replacement parts for it try this link

http://www.pianodiscplayer.com/pianodisc-parts-for-sale/

If it is a newer "silent drive system" some repairs are possible. Floppy disk drives are no longer a repairable or a replaceable part.

The player systems do not shorten the life of the hammers. If a pianist played the piano every day for 8 hours a day it would require maintenance the same if the player system was being used. Most people rarely turn up their system above the lowest volume.

You need to diagnose the problem so I can help troubleshoot. Measuring voltage throughout the system will help but you need to know more about the PianoDisc before you attempt this. Try to find a technical support telephone number in your region or email Pianodisc.com and perhaps they can help you.

Thank you very much David. The Piano Disc system on this piano is the only one here, and they would like to make it work. I shall do my best. I also wonder where can I find the music to put it on floppies for that, somebody have told me that the Piano Disc will play anything that is on MIDI channel 1 on the standard MIDI file. I hope that is truth. Thanks again.

Both Pianomation and PianoDisc have recently come out with 'high definition' player systems. Strictly in terms of playback quality, I'd still give the edge to the LX system, though a conscientious installation, on a well regulated piano, will yield excellent results on all the systems.

With the new Pianomation system, all the music is located on a flash card, or usb thumb drive which is plugged right into the processor. (hard-wired, so to speak)

Just to add a bit more information.

I have not heard the other "high-resolution" systems.

The LX system has what is called "proportional pedaling". I don't believe any other retro-fit kit has this? This is much better in terms of reproducing the damper pedal movements of the pianist. The other systems are just an on/off up/down movement. From www.live-performance.com website:

PROPORTIONAL PEDALING. The new LX uses full proportional pedaling. With 256 pedal positions, 100 pedal samples/second, and high-bandwidth closed-loop control, the dampers are raised to their full height and their motion is closely controlled at every instant in time. This reproduces the subtlest and most delicate of pedal effects. Other playing mechanisms use simple "on-off" pedaling, which destroys the pedal shadings that make fine piano playing so satisfying.

Even on recordings that do not have this proportional pedal data, the LX has a simulated proportional pedaling.

Also, they just came out with 2 new upgrades/updates. For 7ft pianos and above, there are new, stronger solenoid magnets. I understand they have a better dynamic response overall for the larger pianos....louder when needed etc. I have the new set and they will be installed soon.

The other innovation is a soft pedal shift mechanism. This will now be able to shift the hammers just like a real pianist.

As a pianodisc CD user, I can sure agree with this assessment. I do not play and have my pianodisc CD player system purely as someone who enjoys piano music.

I have had several highly educated technicians inspect my player system and piano to try and lessen the mechanical noise of the sustain solenoid function.

It is most noticeable when playing soft pieces and especially if I buy non OEM Pianodisc albums, which I therefore do not do anymore.

While not perfect, it is still enjoyable and I feel it more than has it's place in the market.

All in all, I am happy with mine, since I also have plugged in a basic, but very nice MP3 player to the system and that is how all my music is delivered to the player.

Although I could upgrade to the wireless system, I do not wish to do so, as I have heard of shortcomings.

We have a new pianodisc system (installed last October +/-). I have been delighted with the IQ system generally. We also got their record features, and it took a LOT of effort to get that working as we wanted; it is not well integrated with the IQ itself (and the Pianodisc customer service said, strangely, they rarely sell them together).

We have had no trouble with Wifi issues. That's not really a Pianodisc issue, since (at least as we did it) it connects via Airport Express. I think in that regard it is more an issue of whether your home network works well. But yes, it can be hard wired as well. But it is very nice for my wife to just fire up the iPad and have the piano playing. We have zero issues in that regard.

One thing I liked when we looked at the systems (we did not see an LX) is that the Pianodisc has a great range of volume. From iTunes, you can change from very soft to extremely load. The former is really important if you plan to use this for background music at parties, etc. Be sure to evaluate at the very soft end, pretending it is at your house. Big store showrooms can handle a lot more volume. And be sure to listen for mechanism noise at the very soft end as you evaluate.

I will say that for Pianodisc (and I suspect all of the after market ones), it is as, if not more important to have a good installer. Do some research in that regard moreso than just the system. I saw huge variation (especially in mechanism noise) as I looked at Pianodisc systems in different show rooms which had been installed by different people.

Do you notice any noise from the sustain solinoid (sp) when it opens and closes? That is the only aggravating part of my player system. My dealer and Pianodisc have not been able to help regarding this problem.

Also, do you have one or two speakers under your piano. Mine has one, but I am thinking of adding a second one.

Actually that was the least noisy part of the system I have, whether by good install or design. In very quiet play I can hear the mechanics of the keys if I sit at the keyboard. If I think about it sitting there it sounds a bit annoying. At either louder (normal) play intensity or sitting away or to the side of the piano I hear no mechanics at all. But I don't recall ever hearing the sustain.

We did have to have the sustain readjusted slightly, not for noise but because it was slightly engaged all the time. 2 minutes with a small wrench and it was fine, but in watching what was done I can see where it would be easy to go the other way and have slack in the mechanism that would likely clack as it engaged. It's probably also a function of how the piano's sustain is made as well (i.e. sans pianodisc).

Speakers: I had one, but I actually disabled it and ran audio instead to our home stereo. Besides being much better speakers, the effect of having the sound coming from a different part of the room is actually (to me) more pleasant. After all, one does not house the accompany orchestra inside the piano usually. Though that reminds me of something I really want to test -- when playing through is the accompanyment in stereo. It SOUNDS stereo, but our home system is one of those that tends to fill in -- turning 2 channel to 5, etc. There's a right/left out of the IQ, so I would hope it passes both through, but then again one is used for the piano.

A nice side effect of doing this is then your ipad/ipod music selection that is NOT pianodisc can play wirelessly through your home system as well, you can transparently switch from pianodisc to regular without touching anything but the ipad/ipod. And that is in stereo.

I've been intrigued by the LX system myself for years because of its high resolution and accuracy. But there wasn't an integrated recording option when I looked last. Do not know if that has changed. I don't buy recordings made on other pianos. Not sure if the playback accuracy really gets fully translated between different pianos. So I'm still using a pianodisc system which I callibrate before each recording session.

Howard

That is a very interesting idea running that I like, regarding running the vocals and the orchestra through your stereo. I am going to look into that.

If you did it wirelessly, what equipment did you use.

As far as the sustain goes, I may try that adjustment, as there may be too much slack.

Thanks for the ideas!

The basic pianodisc system without a Queit Time has a box with right and left Line Out. Instead of running that to the speaker normally mounted under the piano, run it to your home stereo. That is line not speaker voltage, so you need to have relatively short runs, and preferably sheilded mic wire or better yet baluns to reduce hum (I haven't done the latter yet but it is on my list as hum is a problem, my run is about 50-60'.).

The normal setup has the iPad (or whatever) connect to an Airport Express, which in turn connects to the Line IN on the IQ.

The IQ itself is smart enough to sense whether the song being played has a pianodisc track. If it does, it takes that track and activates the piano, and passes the other track through (and I am pretty sure it passes it on right and left at the same time, and the accompaniment is in mono.

If you play something without a pianodisc track, it automatically switches off the piano player and just passes the two audio tracks out the line out and onto your stereo system.

Then if you build a play list, you can mix music -- piano only, pianodisc with accompaniment, or regular CD tracks. It will switch seemlessly between and you never need to touch the ipad while it is playing. Set the ipad at about 50% volume, play some regular music and adjust the home stero where you like it, then play pianodisc with accompaniment and balance that from the pianodisc. Repeat until you are satisfied all three modes come out at their respective volumes the way you want it, then from then on the ipad volume controls everything.

If you get the MIDI keyboard and Quiettime this is a bit more complicated to do but is possible (if interested I can post some info). With just the IQ this is pretty much out of the box, plug and play. The biggest trick is getting that line out from a piano to your stero depending on where all your furniture is.


Oh... I first did this with wireless audio line extenders instead of running that wire. Bad idea -- at least the ones I had are on the same frequency band as the airport express, and interferred. So I have a real wire going from the pianodisc unit to the stereo. Better wireless might have worked better, but I'm a big fan of wires for reliability when I can run them, so I actually piulled a wire into a jack beside the power outlet (you need one anyway), so it is not too obtrusive.

If you decide to do this before buying the pianodisc, you can save the price of a powered speaker. Not much, but pays for running the wire.

Speaking of wire -- if you ever want to use MIDI as input to the IQ you still can, they provide yet another plug for that. For example f you wanted to use a midi sequencer to write or edit your music. If so, make sure if running wire you allow for either USB or MIDI cable; I haven't seen anything wireless for pure MIDI. That's not needed at all of course for pianodisc music, but the IQ is both a pianodisc player AND a MIDI player if you want it to be.