This is for those of you who teach in your home or a private studio. I'm not interested in those who teach in schools or multi-tieacher studios funded and managed by someone else. Put another way, answer if you're the one who wrote the check to buy the piano.

What do you teach on? Upright? Good grand? Only okay grand?

And for the more important question: Were you able to purchase it solely with the proceeds of your teaching or were you helped with funds from a successful performing career, a former profession, or a gainfully employed spouse etc? It'll help if I/we know how long you've been teaching and how long ago you bought the piano.

I DON'T want this to turn into a how much piano is enough to teach on thread. This is more of a curiosity about whether or not piano teachers can afford their professional level tools without help in this day and age.

Thanks for your candid replies.

Kurt

At home I teach on a 1999 5'8" Baldwin R that I get tuned, regulated, and voiced regularly every year. I keep my home studio piano in the best shape I can, mostly because I am not as motivated to play piano when it falls out of tune, regulation, or needs a re-voicing. My mother bought it new when I was a sophomore in high school. She had a loan for it, which was paid off by the time I returned from college to reclaim it.

When I have the space for a second piano, I'll be buying it with my own money, and I'll need a loan for it. Top tier pianos aren't cheap. If you have the wealth to plunk down 5 digits' worth of cash the instant you make the decision, more's the power to you. But a car can be bought new for less than a top-tier piano. We get loans for those. We get loans for pianos too.

Edit: My Clavinova I bought new in 2009 and I paid for it in full after I negotiated the price down. I use it as a second piano for accompanying or late night practice. It's part of my studio, but I don't teach on it.

I teach on my best instrument, a Steinway "A" grand. I wrote it off my taxes (I file jointly with my husband so I could do it in one year) and I am paying it off in 7 years, the IRS useful life amount for a piece of business equipment/furniture. (LOL, like it will only last 7 years!)

I have a Yamaha digital grand that I practice on and my students use with midi files after their lessons, but I don't teach on it.

I have two pianos -- a 1948 Steinway L and a smaller Kawai of more recent vintage. I really like having the two pianos and the Steinway is what my students play because of its superior quality.

I bought my Steinway 9 years ago and paid the downpayment with the sale of my upright. I have sinced paid it off (long ago) and am almost finished paying for the Kawai.

The rate I charge takes into account the cost and maintenance of the instruments.

In my home studio I have a Yamaha GC1 Grand that's 3 years old and a Yamaha Clavinova digital.

I have a 1988 Yamaha C3, bought new. It wasn't bought with the proceeds of my teaching, as at that time I was in the middle of a few years hardly teaching at all (babies and stuff, you know). It came largely out of savings, with a small loan (long since paid off). Some people buy a new car. We bought a new grand piano.

I also have two uprights, both old, both inherited. One is a 1910-ish Mignon upright. Pretty well worn out, but not neglected. It holds its tune, and sounds quite sweet.

The other upright is a huge Australian-made Beale pianola which belonged to my grandmother. Actually, it's a pretty good piano for its age (80+) but too big to go in my studio. Before I bought the grand I used the two uprights when teaching. Now I use the grand (which the students always play) and the Mignon (which I play sometimes).

Kurt, if you want us to answer such personal questions about pianos and finances, maybe you should go first. But I'll answer in general terms: I teach on a splendid large German grand, purchased new, that I could not have afforded on my teaching income alone. I have no regrets I bought it - and it has appreciated nicely - but financially it would not be an appropriate piano for a living room piano teacher who is without some other sources of income.

OTH, I can be just as good a teacher using a much less expensive piano. The kids seem to get a kick out of my Kurzweil Mark 10 digital piano, for example, which I bought used long ago for about $3000, even though its piano sound is pretty crappy.

Decent pianos for teaching purposes come in all price ranges (esp. if you buy used) - if this is your underlying query.

Currently teaching on a good rented upright while my Steinway gets rebuilt. (Steinway was handed down to me from my grandparents, who bought it at an estate sale in the 1970's for $1000.)

Also thinking about buying a rebuilt Baldwin - been sitting in a local dealer's showroom for about $9000. The insides were rebuilt in 1990 and it's in pretty good shape.

Generally speaking, the piano is the single biggest expense for most teacher's studios. Friends of mine typically start out by spending around $10k on a decent used grand. (New grands at the $10k level aren't very good.)

I was actually talking about this very subject with my local Steinway dealer. He mentioned that it was a shame that those who would be best served by excellent instruments (teachers) are rarely able to afford them. That being said, my dealer makes a point of being extremely knowledgeable about financing options and how to deduct it from your taxes.

Pianos are another good reason to think of yourself as a business - by placing the piano in a room dedicated to one's teaching, you can write the entire piano and a percentage of your mortgage/rent off as a business expense. (Including home repairs, home improvement, homeowners and mortgage insurance, landscaping, utilities, etc...)

Why do you ask? Are you considering setting up business?

The question reminds me of performing with harp. At every event someone would come by and ask how much the harp cost. They were far more interested in putting a price on it than listening to the music.

Anyway, as with any business, there are start up costs. To start a business one needs money to purchase the equipment, or a loan to purchase the equipment. If you are beginning a business, you CANNOT purchase your start up equipment with money you have previously earned from your business. Obviously you have to get started in order to earn income. Earnings from the business can be reinvested in the business (resulting in upgrading equipment).

An aside: I recall that Ms. Clinton used her own savings in her run for president, but being a lawyer she loaned her personal savings to her campaign. This enabled her to get her savings back as others contributed to her campaign. (While other politicians kicked themselves asking "why did I think of that"?)

and probably charged her campaign 20% interest to boot!

You have a narrow definition of "help" which is based on the source of income for piano purchase. I see 'help' in a broader sense. For example, one may purchase a piano from teaching proceeds, yet be enabled to do so by having a spouse who pays the mortgage etc. It is obviously much easier financially to have a partnership than to be going it alone. So having 'help' could include whether one has a 'helper' (spouse or committed partner or parent etc. who contributes financially to the household expenses).

I think that people will FIND a way to pay for what they value. It's not necessarily that they can "afford their professional level tools". There is not just one way to get this worked out. One could live with parents while working to save for a piano; Have a second job when necessary; Drive your 12 year old car and take on piano payments instead of car payments; Forgo vacations and save toward instrument purchase etc.

I teach on a Kawai Baby Grand Piano (model KG-D1). I used the money that I earned from piano teaching to buy this in my 6th years of teaching. Before this baby grand, I taught on Yamaha upright, bought by my own money too. I neither had assistance from my parents (they disapprove me to be a piano teacher and never support me during college either) nor my spouse.

Interesting thread. FWIW I teach on a Steinway 1098 upright that is well-maintained. I am actively in search of a small upper end grand but can't afford to buy new unless I take out a loan. Have been told interest rates in music stores are close to 10% and that credit unions are a good alternative so may pursue that when I find the piano for me. Hope to keep both pianos.

It really is just a curiosity folks. A cigar is just a cigar. Your reaction is yours and reflects your own assumptions not my intent.

I'm a house husband who hasn't worked outside the home for 17 years. I've lived with the "help" of my business minded spouse all my adult life. I'm not endowed Ann, to be as disdainful as you seem to suspect. She bought me my okay piano and I take lessons on a crappy console from a teacher I adore and respect. I hope that's enough disclosure.

The issues of ego and career, so evident in the response here are no stranger to me. I've certainly wrestled with them, usually after hanging around with men who measure themselves by their bank accounts or being asked for the nth time if I've noticed that I'm the only man who comes to Mommy and Me Gym Time. While being a house husband I've been a chaperone on month long foreign student exchanges, an adult literacy tutor and a volunteer youth volleyball coach--all as an unpaid volunteer. I'm fascinated by teachers and teaching which makes this one of my favorite boards on PW. I try to respect this as your place and mostly just quietly lurk. I apologize if any of you have found my question dis-ingenuous or indecorous. If it doesn't suit you to answer, it goes without saying that is your right, I'll never notice or care. If you do choose to answer, all replies, including your castigations cheerfully received. They're all interesting.


Regards,

Kurt

I'm an "in home" teacher, which has the advantage of letting me teach on what the students are actually practicing on. Imagine the pitfalls avoided by knowing that the students piano can't do what you ask them to do. You can also suggest when it's time to upgrade.
In my opinion, what you teach on is not as important as what the students practice on. After all, you get them for only 30-45 minutes a week.

Ben I agree with you 100 percent. This is why I wanted to stay away from how much piano is enough to teach on. It's not germane to my (casual) inquiry about the general state of the piano teaching profession and how teachers afford these admittedly expensive beasts.



I'll reinforce here that while it can't be denied that the piano may send messages about your level of professionality to some which I suspect most of you know that's not how I measure a teacher and it isn't an impetus behind my question. My impetus is private, personal and more innocent that some suspect.

Kurt

Interesting subject. When I began teaching, a very long time ago now, I loaned my studio my personal piano. You could not deduct it, because it's not new. Well, you can, but it's very difficult and complex to set up the paperwork trail, and we're musicians and not accountants.

From that point on, all studio equipment was purchased, either using a commercial loan, a loan from the piano company, or a family loan with interest, but mostly the first two. If you're new to teaching, you'd do well to get a credit card with low interest, and/or a line of credit loan from your bank.

In the old days, ie, before 2000, it was possible to select different depreciation schedules to use with large purchases. It may still be possible, but the constant turmoil in changing tax regulations make it extremely difficult to do any meaningful planning. But their were 3 yr, 5 yr, 7 yr, 10 yr, 15 yr etc., depreciations possible. You had to be able to justify your choice of schedule, of course, but if it was reasonable, then no problem.

Running a business means making decisions, including what quality levels you want to provide your potential customer, what programs you want to offer, etc. Most businesses which fail skip the analysis steps in which you evaluate potential income vs. expenses of providing the service. Long ago, I decided that having a studio which had two pianos, one for student use, one for teacher use, would offer the student many advantages, including faster progress, more in-depth understanding of sounds and concepts, etc., The added expense, both for space rental and instruments of two grands was beyond what I felt the market would bear (where I lived), so I went for two verticals. Little things, like adjustable benches, elevated foot/pedal pads, etc., always surprise prospective students, and may well be the deciding factor in accepting the higher tuition I charge.

Kurt, didn't mean to offend you or sound disdainful. As a matter of fact I am as curious as anyone else about how much intruments cost. Years ago in harp lessons I asked my teacher how much her new harp cost. She was in the habit of telling people who inquired that "I have stopped answering that question", but she answered it for me since I was her student.

And my last teacher, when she bought a grand piano I would have loved to know what it cost. But by then I felt it was rude to ask.

There is an article in American Music Teacher focusing on teacher who managed to get a mortgage and be financially independent after graduation (by teaching privately and for a college, by performing, accompanying, and having a mentor who allowed him to take over her studio). It took preparation, luck, good personality (mentor chose him as successor due to credentials and personality), and piecing together income from a variety of music related jobs to gain financial independence.

It depends on the quality and price of the tools. If you want to run your own teaching studio using twin grands that are top-notch instruments, you probably can't afford to do so without some outside help. The earnings in studio piano teaching simply are not high enough for this to fly.

It is kind of sad, perhaps, but then again we all make our compromises. Or else we subsidize our teaching work from other sources of income. Most piano teachers recognize this and accept it. Or sort of wince and look the other way on the issue. We didn't enter this profession primarily for its monetary rewards; it has other recompenses.

It's much worse for string teachers, though: their instruments can be far costlier than pianos.

But at least their students bring their own instruments to lessons!

Top quality string instruments cost over $100k?
Not old collectors ones, but brand new?

Well, at least a piano can't be stolen or lost!

I think.

Wouldn't be stolen from your home. But I heard about one being stolen from a university. Picture 2 movers hauling out the piano. I suppose everyone assumed the movers knew what they were doing. (And they were right. The movers DID know what they were doing.) So it gets more risky when you have a setting like that where no one is really sure that the piano is not scheduled for repair or something.

I teach on a Yamaha upright. I wouldn't have room for a grand, or money. Most of my students are beginners, though, and I think they can learn just fine how to play piano on an upright. Grands sound better, but they play just the same, more or less.

I teach on a Yamaha upright, with a high quality Roland digital next to it for me to accompany on. My parents bought me the digital when I was preparing to audition for the con and living in a unit, but I paid for the upright out of my savings from teaching a few years later.

In my ideal world I would have two grands side by side as my own teacher had, but that's a long way off. The bonus of having a digital as my second instrument is that it doesn't need regular tuning, but I will be looking to having two accoustic instruments eventually.

At the moment my priority is saving for a house deposit so we can buy a house that is more suited to teaching (a proper separate studio space that is set up purely for teaching piano, rather than having mine and my family's privacy impeded on by teaching in our loungeroom as I do now), and once that is accomplished I will be looking to upgrade my instrument. I'd say it's a 5 year goal.

That said, I don't think it matters too much what you teach on, as long as it's not an absolute clunker. A lot of people seem to have a stereotypical image in their head of piano teachers being a grumpy, ruler-weilding lot, and will happily sign up for lesson based on having heard you're a patient, friendly person. Based on the feedback I get it seems that for quite a few people knowledge and tools come secondary to having those basic qualities! I would like to have a gorgeous instrument to teach/play on though, less for business image than to enhance mine and my students enjoyment.

Welcome to the discussion, Beth. And many thanks for your wisdom. You'll get that gorgeous instrument someday!

Thanks, I hope so!

Yes, welcome, Beth. I like you already!

I think you are right, Beth! The best teacher trumps the best instrument every time!