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#1846726 - 02/17/12 11:51 AM Pitch raise with Cyberhammer
Weiyan Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/04/11
Posts: 684
Loc: Hong Kong
I find cyberhammer very easy to fine tune a piano, except pitch raise. I have to throw many times to raise a pin. Should I use a Fujan in first pass, then use cyberhammer to fine tune? Or my cyberhammer skill have to improve?

Raising 15 cents is normal case, I can use cyberhammer. Last time I raise 50 cents, after a few pins, switched to Fujan. I have a schedule of raising 100 cents next month.

Is it possible to finish pitch raising within two hours?

Thanks for help.
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Ragtime beginner
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#1846864 - 02/17/12 03:25 PM Re: Pitch raise with Cyberhammer [Re: Weiyan]
rxd Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/11/09
Posts: 1680
Loc: London, England
I was loaned an impact hammer to try for a few days. It had a substantial weight on the end. This was over a few days when I had a truckload of new pianos to tune in time for yesterday. You know the sort of thing, tight pins and pitch loss to recover. I took to the new technique easily. Big pitch changes and fine tuning were all within the capabilities of this particular weight of tool

I am now a bit out of touch with newer developments but it strikes me that a lightweight impact hammer somewhat defeats its own purpose.

??
_________________________
Concert & Recording tuner-tech, London, England.
"in theory, practice and theory are the same thing. In practice, they're not." - Lawrence P. 'Yogi' Berra.

Eschew obfuscation.



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#1846943 - 02/17/12 05:55 PM Re: Pitch raise with Cyberhammer [Re: Weiyan]
Loren D Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/22/10
Posts: 2545
Loc: PA
When doing pitch raises, I just throw with a little more force and that seems to do the trick. I don't really think about it now; it just comes naturally.

Rxd, the reason behind the lighter weight is to make fine movements easier. Too much weight makes small movements harder to control, constantly overshooting.
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DiGiorgi Piano Service (1984-2013)
http://www.digiorgipiano.com

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#1846945 - 02/17/12 05:57 PM Re: Pitch raise with Cyberhammer [Re: Weiyan]
Loren D Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/22/10
Posts: 2545
Loc: PA
Weiyan, I have no problem doing a pitch raise and fine tuning in an hour or so using Cyberhammer. The pitch raise usually takes me 10-15 minutes, and then I spend around 45 on the fine tuning.
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http://www.digiorgipiano.com

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#1846954 - 02/17/12 06:13 PM Re: Pitch raise with Cyberhammer [Re: Weiyan]
That Guy Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/07/11
Posts: 369
Loc: Lincoln, NE
I use a Fujan and I agree that if you're using an impact style it would not work well. I use a smooth motion and therefore it works very nicely for me. The advantage of the Fujan is lightness, stiffness and length. They all combine to make a very powerful (if I can use that term) tuning hammer. One thing that's odd about it is that it really works best if you hold it right on the end. If you choke up, at least for me, it just doesn't work well. Besides, the advantage in the length is only realized if you hold it on the end. It give you tremendous control over the pin. As you can tell I'm sold on it.
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Scott Kerns
"That Tuning Guy"
Lincoln, NE
www.thattuningguy.com

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#1846972 - 02/17/12 06:45 PM Re: Pitch raise with Cyberhammer [Re: Weiyan]
Weiyan Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/04/11
Posts: 684
Loc: Hong Kong
rxd: I had a weight riser. Just tried a few pins and put it aside. Its too heavy.

Fear of breaking string may prevent me from throw with more force.

Loren: How accuracy in pitch raising? Sorry for my poor English. I try to elaborate this question. You tune to +/- how many cents in pitch raising. Do you raise all three strings with Verituner?
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Ragtime beginner
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#1847023 - 02/17/12 09:07 PM Re: Pitch raise with Cyberhammer [Re: Weiyan]
Loren D Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/22/10
Posts: 2545
Loc: PA
Originally Posted By: Weiyan
rxd: I had a weight riser. Just tried a few pins and put it aside. Its too heavy.

Fear of breaking string may prevent me from throw with more force.

Loren: How accuracy in pitch raising? Sorry for my poor English. I try to elaborate this question. You tune to +/- how many cents in pitch raising. Do you raise all three strings with Verituner?



No apologies necessary, you're doing just fine. smile

On the initial pitch raise, I shoot for 3-4 cent accuracy. I just bump it up quickly to within range and move to the next. Yes, I use Tunelab for the pitch raise since it gets it so close. I start from A0 and go on up, doing unisons as I go. Again, I'm just going for within 3-4 cents; closer on unisons, but by no means trying to get them really clean, just close. After the initial raise, I like to do the fine tuning aurally.

Funny you mention breaking strings. Since I started using the Cyberhammer about 1 1/2 years ago, instances of string breakage are down dramatically, including pitch raises. My theory (and I have no evidence for this, just a gut feeling), is that all segments of the string are moved all at once instead of one segment of it pulling while another resists, and that could be the reason for fewer strings breaking.
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DiGiorgi Piano Service (1984-2013)
http://www.digiorgipiano.com

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#1847024 - 02/17/12 09:08 PM Re: Pitch raise with Cyberhammer [Re: That Guy]
Loren D Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/22/10
Posts: 2545
Loc: PA
Originally Posted By: That Guy
I use a Fujan and I agree that if you're using an impact style it would not work well. I use a smooth motion and therefore it works very nicely for me. The advantage of the Fujan is lightness, stiffness and length. They all combine to make a very powerful (if I can use that term) tuning hammer. One thing that's odd about it is that it really works best if you hold it right on the end. If you choke up, at least for me, it just doesn't work well. Besides, the advantage in the length is only realized if you hold it on the end. It give you tremendous control over the pin. As you can tell I'm sold on it.


I use Fujan on grands and use a smooth pull technique (usually) and love it. I agree, I hold it at the very end. The control and sensitivity to what the pin is doing are fantastic with this lever.
_________________________
DiGiorgi Piano Service (1984-2013)
http://www.digiorgipiano.com

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#1847208 - 02/18/12 10:18 AM Re: Pitch raise with Cyberhammer [Re: Loren D]
Weiyan Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/04/11
Posts: 684
Loc: Hong Kong
Loren: I don't think cyberhammer responsible for the breaking string. Just fear of breaking string. I am happy to hear that with cyberhammer, breaking instance reduced.
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Fake Book player
Ragtime beginner
http://weiyanwo.wordpress.com

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#1847420 - 02/18/12 04:54 PM Re: Pitch raise with Cyberhammer [Re: Weiyan]
Jim Moy Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/06/07
Posts: 292
Loc: Fort Collins - Loveland, CO
For an amusing combination of techniques, I pitch raise and fine tune on uprights with a Cyberhammer, and smooth pull with a Fujan on grands (honestly) :-)

I am getting close to the confidence level I need using the Cyberhammer to make the switch on grands as well. Maybe this year, I'll see how business does.

I find pitch raises using the Cyberhammer to be a very smooth experience physically, moving from pin to pin and getting an efficient rhythm. Using Tunelab, it takes me about fifteen minutes to make a rough pass, within five cents or so of the overpull target.

It takes longer on questionable pianos where you want to bump down in pitch a bit to make sure strings are rendering, to avoid non-speaking length breakage. Haven't measured myself there yet, will have to remember to do that sometime.
_________________________
Jim Moy, RPT
Moy Piano Service, LLC
Fort Collins and Loveland, Colorado
http://www.moypiano.com

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#1847477 - 02/18/12 06:46 PM Re: Pitch raise with Cyberhammer [Re: Jim Moy]
Loren D Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/22/10
Posts: 2545
Loc: PA
Originally Posted By: Jim Moy
For an amusing combination of techniques, I pitch raise and fine tune on uprights with a Cyberhammer, and smooth pull with a Fujan on grands (honestly) :-)



That's exactly what I do too. Cyberhammer on verticals, smooth pull with the Fujan on grands. So, you're not alone!

From time to time I think of the grand Cyberhammer, but man, $900....
_________________________
DiGiorgi Piano Service (1984-2013)
http://www.digiorgipiano.com

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#1847731 - 02/19/12 09:41 AM Re: Pitch raise with Cyberhammer [Re: Weiyan]
Weiyan Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/04/11
Posts: 684
Loc: Hong Kong
Thanks for the answers.


There is very few grands here. But I still want to have a grand Cyberhammer. Life is too short to acquire too many technique.
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Fake Book player
Ragtime beginner
http://weiyanwo.wordpress.com

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